From Little Acorn to Mighty Oak

[acorn1293]

New to the forum and thought I'd start a log to track my progress and have a little more accountability aince I'm starting clinical rotations in a few weeks. Coming back from a bad back tweak and from spinning my wheels for a year. I'm looking to surpass all my old PR's and finally go from a little acorn to a Mighty Oak baby!!

6/19/20 morning bodyweight: 208.4lbs
Squat worksets 295lbs 3x5 5' timer

Comp Press worksets 142.5lbs x5, x4, x3, x1, x1, x1 4' timer sets 1-3, 1'-2' sets 4-6. Second workout in a row failing 3x5. Last press workout I failed the 5th rep of set 3 so performance was worse today but I also switched from using hip drive on just the first rep and then touch and go for all other reps to using hip drive on all reps. Probably comparing apples to oranges in that way. Not sure how I want to proceed with progressing these press workouts. I could switch to 5x3 or just keep adding weight and do broken sets like I believe Nick Delgadillo suggests. I'm leaning towards 5x3 and maybe even increase less than 2.5lbs next time (maybe 1.5 or 2lbs?).

DL worksets (260.5x5 beltless, 294x5 belt DOH) 325x5 hook grip. Shoulders a little too forward in set up so need to pull them back next time.

Assisted Chins w/ red band (mini?) 4x8 2' timer

[mgil]

Welcome to the forum, @acorn1293!

What is your goal for having press as a movement in the rotation?

[Wilhelm]

Welcome @acorn1293 \o/

[acorn1293]

Thanks @mgil and @Wilhelm !

I'm leaning towards powerlifting so ultimately I care more about bench press. But I do really wanna hit a 200 pound press at some point so for now I'm giving it equal priority. I'm essentially running starting strength again (but with a couple of tweaks) because I'm coming back from a low back injury and was inconsistent with training for a while before that. Last time I ran it I got to a 345x5 squat, 240x5 bench, 365x5 deadlift, and maybe a 155x3 or 160x3 press (I can't remember which) before getting a bit burnt out and bored and switched to Andy Baker's garage gym warrior. This time around I wanna wait until a legit stall before switching to a maybe 4 day split for time reasons.

[mgil]

Gotcha. I don’t care much for the SS approach to OHP, as I think it misses on every front. When the press starts to stall on 3x5, folks need to do DUP or something else. My press started moving a lot better when I dialed intensity down on most sessions.

I also don’t like the hip movement. Just over complicates a simple lift.

Regardless, I’m interested to see how training goes. If you have questions, ask away in the training forum. Lots of people that have run SS and several ex-SSCs can help out if you need it.

[acorn1293]

Thanks I appreciate it! This forum seems to be a lot more friendly than the SS one lol

I noticed yesterday that the hip bounce seemed to work well on the first few reps but I prefer the touch and go way I was using before for "higher reps" so we'll see if I continue using it.

As far as DUP would go, would I do the typical strength, power, hypertrophy set up pressing 3 times per week? I'm still progressing pretty well benching every other workout doing 2 sets of 5 and then an AMRAP on the last set so I'm just curious how one could set up DUP when focusing on both bench press and press.

Also, sorry to hear about your medical things going on man. It sounds like you're keeping a positive attitude with it all though. Good luck with recovery! I'm in my last year of PT school right now and starting a rotation at an outpatient ortho clinic in a couple of weeks.

[mgil]

The HPS/Montana Method approach will rotate intensity out so that those smaller groups recruited in a heavy press can recover and dissipate inflammation and whatever.

When you get to an overall plateau on both presses, I’d probably switch the setup completely to something where you hit both movements (bench of some sort/overhead pressing of some sort) on the same day. Ultimately, my broscience opinion (which is now being backed up with reasonable scientific evidence) is that long term hypertrophy is a result of higher “dosing” of workload that can be recovered from easily. Lots of reps in the 60-70% range really matter, specifically when initial stimulus and CNS training (“novice”) phases end.

[acorn1293]

I've glanced at the MM thread a few times and it looked like a ton of volume to me but increasing volume like you said seems to be what most coaches are advocating for today once novice lp runs its course. I'll remember that once these noob gains dry up. Do you think a volume/intensity day set up could still work post novice if one were to make a volume day lighter intensity like 60-70% and lower RPE sets and then intensity day in the 85%+ range for higher RPE sets? It just seems like most DUP set ups are full body and I'm thinking shorter sessions like in an upper/lower split may work better for me in the future.

[mgil]

You can do a volume/intensity split. The secret is to cycle the intensity stuff so that you’re doing small sets at 80-85% most weeks and only occasionally going over 90%. You can post in that thread and tag Hanley with the mention function and he will throw out ideas.

[Wilhelm]

Here's a screen shot ( at bottom of post) of the Montana Method two week template.
I like to run H squats right before a two day break from squats.
I just moved to S/P/S for squats, as i'm in the 9th cycle now and switched from bulking to maintenance, and am doing my "peaking" adjustment for squat singles on P day.
But you can see there is very little 90+% work in the stock plan.
I haven't looked into Hanley's new 3 week thing, but i'm stubborn, and i really like the two week scheme anyway.

I've been using it a long time, and have made small adjustments
I also switched that part on S day bench week 1 with the T&G plus singles, to just 5 (now 6) paused triples.
Mostly because it lets me set up fewer times, and that's my least favorite part of benching.
i do all paused bench all the time, but that's just me.
I also don't train OHP, not that that's relevant, other than to show you can make adjustments to any program.
Whether they work or not is another matter.

I'm not saying you should or shouldn't use this, but the downloadable template is here -
viewtopic.php?p=131400#p131400

As mgil said, take advantage of the programming forum to get more expert advice than i can offer.
The 3 week thread is "Strength in the time of quarantine", though there are probably other threads that match your situation as well.
Don't think it matters much, if you @ Hanley, he'll see it.

I think the 3 week template is in the 3 week thread, which is only right lol.

[acorn1293]

Awesome thank you guys!! I'll definitely look into MM and other stuff from Hanley once this stops working.

[acorn1293]

6/22/20 206.2lbs
SQ ws 300x5x3 5' timer first set definitely felt like an 8-8.5 and last sets felt like @9+

BP ws 232.5x5x3 4' last set @10 may be time to change it up quicker than I thought.

DL ws (267x5 beltless, 299x5 belt and straps) was supposed to do 330x5 but skipped because back was still sore from last week and 299x5 felt like at least a @7. I knew 330x5 wasn't in the cards based on warm ups and the back soreness and pain I felt from last workout. I'm going to start a light day 2 at the very least and may be switching to something more RPE based since the soreness in my back is getting worse after improving for a couple of weeks.

Chins x10, x7 (8th rep not clean), x6 2' have not progressed since starting these about a month ago so going to change these up too

[acorn1293]

6/25/20 207.4
Squat 305x5 Weird dull achy pain in left butt cheek so
3-0-3 Tempo Squat 135x8x3 2' timer Did these to get some kind of work in and between this new pain and the pain I've had previously I think it's time to dial back the intensity and move onto something else (may give MM a go)

Bench 245x1 @7 or maybe less, 208x5x5 3' easy touch and go single

RDL 185x8x3 2' easy and painfree

Strict Press 120x8x2, x6x2, x4 4' was trying to get 4 sets of 8 but doing these strict made it harder

Kinda poopy session and not happy about the weird pain but I think the aggressive loading of LP just aggravated the injury from April. Oh well, fishing trip with some friends this weekend then beach trip next week will hopefully let it settle down a little bit as I'll only be able to train Monday and Friday anyway. After I get back I'm going to do either MM or BBM's strength 1 template.



Chins max reps in 5' 4sx5r, x4, x3

[acorn1293]

6/29/20
SQ ws 320x1@7, 252.5x5rx6s 2' rest, had some pain on second to last warm up but I think I lost my bracing in the hole.

BP ws 250x1@7.5, 195x5x7 2' rest

DL 340x1@~8, hard to tell if actually an 8 or if I was just being a wussy with a p as my friend calls it. It felt way slower than the video showed but it did slow down visibly at my sticking point and I think I could have tripled it so I'll call it 8. I feel like I overestimate the RPE on DLs but I'm sure this will get better with practice.

So I played around with some MM concepts today and I'm going to start the actual template Monday. My work capacity was better than I thought it'd be and I don't feel too beat up or exhausted. I had to cut DLs short so I could get on the road for the beach with my gf.

[Wilhelm]

My n=1 is start light with DL on MM 2 week.
I'm up pretty heavy with my 5 sets of 4 weekly, but i'm keeping pace and not yet needing the low stress triples option.
SGDL may seem really very light at first too, but i haven't rushed that either.

I'm sure there are other ways to apply the template though.
i'm just doing a very long, steady run with no big weight jumps.

And to be fair, i don't use RPE actively in session.
I just pace what i schedule and lift it, so that's a big difference, i guess. : )

Again, unsolicited advice, but i found it helpfull to have H day squats right before the double off days.

[acorn1293]

@Wilhelm I appreciate the advice man! I also want to set myself up to run MM for a while like you have. I'm going to run it as is for a few cycles and evaluate from there. Quick question: which loading method did you pick? Do you add 1-2% to your 1RMs each cycle, arbitrarily add 2.5-10lbs, or something else? I was thinking of doing 1-2% but since you've been going through it for as long as you have I was wondering what's worked for you.

[Wilhelm]

@Wilhelm I appreciate the advice man! I also want to set myself up to run MM for a while like you have. I'm going to run it as is for a few cycles and evaluate from there. Quick question: which loading method did you pick? Do you add 1-2% to your 1RMs each cycle, arbitrarily add 2.5-10lbs, or something else? I was thinking of doing 1-2% but since you've been going through it for as long as you have I was wondering what's worked for you.

It's a little odd, since i started this time after 3.5 months of zero lifting.
My first guess on deadlift had me doing a 355 single the first week. lol nope.
Backed off to 335 that day and went from there.
Started light enough on bench and squat, and gauged the jumps at first to zero in.
Some bigger jumps on squat, i think.

Cycle 1 plug in e1rms were S- 300 B- 207.5 DL -372.5
C2 320/ 212.5/377.5

After that i see a mix of 10lb jumps for S and DL, tapering bench jumps down from 7.5, still zeroing in.

last three cycles i still did 10lb jumps for squat, and this time went just 5.
Again, i'm doing P day singles a lot higher than the template kicks out.
But my last DL jump was from 450 to 452.5. , which has the 5 sets of 4 at 362.5 week two.
Did 360 for that last week, and was surprised how well within bounds that is.

I'm just taking my time with loading. Even if you don't add load for 2 cycles of even more, it can still be overload stimulus.
haven't repeated yet, but if that's the call, it won't worry me.

Bench i'm doing 2.5lbs, but in week 2 i only do those for the 3 doubles, with the 4 triples being 2.5lbs lower, i.e. week 1 weight, so i'm spreading out the progression over that week 2 and the next week one with that same weight.
And remember, i'm doing all strength days on bench, so not really even MM

Long short, i guage the loading to where i know i won't get wrecked, so i can keep going w/o deloading, but i haven't yet had to fully repeat a cycle.

Current (cycle 10) plug in numbers are
S- 390 (with a 375 and then 380 single P days) and S/P/S scheme - Meet best 413
B- 260 S/S/S all paused. Meet best 237
DL 452.5 - Meet best 446. I'm still doing the 5 sets of 4. Haven't had to resort to the lower stress triples option

Sorry for the long answer, but once i'm dialed in, i have a good feel for knowing what i can for sure do based on the just finished cycle. I write the new 2 week cycle after finishing the last, and just lift what i've written.

My plan/theory/experiment is to PR everything as submax efforts in the normal course of training.
Not testing/peaking bench or DL, and now doing my slow squat singles progression on P days with worksets at a somewhat conservative load, having shifted to S/P/S
Oh yeah, the other metric is to remain feeling not beat up.

lol. i need to just stop this answer now.

If anything starts moving slowly, i will then repeat that weight until it moves better.

[JohnHelton]

@acorn1293, welcome to Exodus. I've had my best training stretches with @Hanley's voodoo. You can start light and increment your e1RMs by 1% every two weeks. That adds up over the course of a year. Personally, I used the heavy singles to gauge my e1RMs. However, if you use the 1% approach, the heavy singles will be a good check. If you start hitting @9-10 RPEs on the singles, then you know that you have incremented your e1RMs too much. The main goals is to do plenty of work sets while staying out of the red zone. Pretty much the opposite of SS.

[acorn1293]

7/3/20 208.8
SQ ws 330x1@7.5, 287.5x3rx5s 3' timer Painfree!!

BP ws 257.5x1@8-8.5, 223.5x3x5 3'

Beltless SGDL ws 210x5x4 2' Widened my grip with each set and ended with my index fingers on the outside of the rings. These honestly felt better and more natural than my normal deadlift.

Idk if it was the extra rest, this "trigger point" at the top of my glute that I found, or both but I didn't have any pain during this session. I played around with MM concepts again today and am looking forward starting the actual program Monday. I start my first clinical rotation Monday too so hopefully I'm not too exhausted.

@Wilhelm no I'm glad to get a detailed response! You've had a lot of success so far with the program so I like hearing what you have to say. I think I'm going to start off with 1-2% jumps each cycle and use the heavy singles to make sure I'm not loading too aggressively sort of like @JohnHelton said. I wanna stick with the base program for maybe 3-4 cycles and see what seems to be working and what may need tweaking. I'm hopeful the extra DL volume will help my sucky DL.

@Wilhelm how long do you normally rest on the strength days? I'm guessing you probably go by feel. I set a timer for 3' today so my actual rest was probably around 3.5'. I felt ready for the next set and the bar speed wasn't dropping much. Also, do you do the snatch grip deadlifts beltless?

[Wilhelm]

@acorn1293 I wear my belt for everything except bench.
Even empty bar warmups.
It's just part of my routine now, and i want to practice the movements as they will be in meets (no SGDL in meets, but i still do the same.)
I view it as part of my set up to be practiced.
Plus, old people get to wear their belts always.

Rest by feel, and by when the song ends.
I'd say between 2 and 3 minutes.

Might be between 4 and 5 minutes for DL sets.