Patrick's Novice Log

[PatrickDB]

Hi, I'm Patrick. I'm a novice lifter.

Basic info: male, 5'10", 160 pounds, 24 years old.

I like reading exercise science literature more than I like lifting.

[PatrickDB]

Wednesday, November 15.

Press 117.5 3x5
Squat 185x5/205x5/215x5 (Trying to figure out where to restart LP)
DL 235x5
Two sets of chins (I forget the rep count -- mainly I was trying to see if my abs had healed. There was a little discomfort but not much.)

[video cut for cleanliness]

[PatrickDB]

Friday, November 17.

Bench 165x5, 150 2x5, close grip 105 3x8
Chins 6x6
Squat 195x5 (I also did a bunch of sets at 155/185 to have people I trust check my form, but I forget the rep counts. By the time we were finished I had been at the gym for about 2 hours, so I decided to do a set of 5 and go home. I do not usually cut workouts like this, I swear.)

I'm still trying to figure out how to close grip bench. I have my index fingers on the smooth part of the bar, and it seems I need to touch a little lower on my chest than usual. If I fully tuck my elbows, it's hard to keep my shoulders back and they tip up at the bottom of the movement. Eric Cressey suggests about a 45 degree elbow angle to prevent this and allow for a slightly higher touch point. That seems reasonable and I'll try it next time.

[Wilhelm]

Welcome, @PatrickDB.
It's really nice to have you here.

You seem to have put good thought into your lifting so far.
I'm sure you'll do well.

There are so many friendly, helpful, and experienced lifters here.
I'm really glad i found this place.

Belt on deadlifts. Oh, boy. I'm figuring that out too.

[PatrickDB]

Thanks, @Wilhelm! This seems like a great place, and I'm hoping to learn as much as I can from it.

[Wilhelm]

I'm figuring out the belt/deadlift equation too.

I've got it where i can set up, but i'm not as happy as i was without it tightness wise.
I think it's just getting used to it now, and practice.
I started a thread asking people their approaches.
http://www.exodus-strength.com/forum/vi ... ?f=9&t=484

[mgil]

This might come into the belt positioning, but I think your hips are a touch too high. Probably 1-2”. Presses and squats looked good.

How much time can you throw at each session?

[PatrickDB]

This might come into the belt positioning, but I think your hips are a touch too high. Probably 1-2”. Presses and squats looked good.

Probably. This is a dumb question, but how can I get them lower? In the standard SS setup, their position seems fixed by wherever they end up after my shins touch the bar. Rippetoe yells at people in videos for lowering them after that point, but perhaps I should ignore him and sin a bit?

How much time can you throw at each session?

Any amount of time. The nearest well-equipped gym is a 30-40 minute bus ride away, so lifting eats up my entire evening anyway.

[mgil]

If you setup with the bar a half inch further away, it’s not going to end the world. Roll the bar in if you want. If the hips set up too low, they go to the right position anyhow before the bar leaves the floor. It’ll probably help set your lower back a bit better.

Reason I asked about your time is because, since you’re young, you could throw some extra press/bench work in each session for extra swole. 45 bench reps over two weeks might not be enough.

[PatrickDB]

If you setup with the bar a half inch further away, it’s not going to end the world. Roll the bar in if you want. If the hips set up too low, they go to the right position anyhow before the bar leaves the floor. It’ll probably help set your lower back a bit better.

Got it, thanks. I'll try this out next DL session.

Reason I asked about your time is because, since you’re young, you could throw some extra press/bench work in each session for extra swole. 45 bench reps over two weeks might not be enough.

Yeah, I was thinking about this (also throwing in curls, some ab wheel/planks, and some light cardio...). Do you have any suggestions for programming this? I was planning to steal the pressing portion of Jordan's general intermediate/advanced program (http://www.barbellmedicine.com/scivationstrong/), but maybe you have a better idea?

[AaronM]

If you setup with the bar a half inch further away, it’s not going to end the world. Roll the bar in if you want. If the hips set up too low, they go to the right position anyhow before the bar leaves the floor. It’ll probably help set your lower back a bit better.

Reason I asked about your time is because, since you’re young, you could throw some extra press/bench work in each session for extra swole. 45 bench reps over two weeks might not be enough.

Ya. Setting up the bar slightly further away really helped my deadlift, otherwise it felt like a straight leg deadlift.

FWIW, I have a horrible bench and press. I started lifting seriously again in January, and only just recently hit a 225lb bench. The last 4 week training cycle I did 93/100/82/22 reps (weeks 1/2/3/4). Gotta bench more if you want to bench more...

EDIT - I did Jordan's general intermediate and The Bridge late summer/early fall, and both helped move my bench along.

[PatrickDB]

Roger that @AaronM , thanks!

[KyleSchuant]

I've started putting extra reps through press and bench with my novice lifters. I started with the women since extra sets means extra rest which means a longer workout, but women need less rest between sets than men. It's worked well for the women, the next guys I get will be guinea pigs.

There are many ways to do things, a friend of mine trained his son through his teenage years, "We'd press until we got stuck, then incline bench from that weight until we got stuck, then flat bench from that weight until we got stuck, then go back to press and see if we were unstuck."

In your case, all those chinups will probably do as well in your helping your pressing and benching, so you mightn't want to change anything there. But just some thoughts for the future when you eventually get stuck.

[mgil]

Just do some light accessory pressing movements on the same day. If you do a heavy bench session do some presses for 3x8 at RPE 7-8 at the end of the session. Something like that.

[d0uevenlift]

Welcome, Patrick. Gain some weight very slowly.

Your squat has a touch of lumbar flexion at the bottom, shine reps worse than others, but it's not bad. You're relaxing a little and allowing yourself to hit depth by flexing your lumbar spine... Almost like you're not allowing yourself to hit depth, but instead stopping short of depth and then reaching with your butt to try to break parallel.

Since you're taller, allow yourself to lean over just a little more. Think of leaning into your squat by reaching back with your hips and staying tight all the way to the bottom. I normally wouldn't advise that since people artificially hold their knees back too much and end up with vertical shins, but I don't think that will be a problem for you.

[PatrickDB]

Thanks @d0uevenlift, that's exactly the sort of feedback I was hoping for. I'll try to get some video tomorrow using that cue and post it here.

[d0uevenlift]

Thanks @d0uevenlift, that's exactly the sort of feedback I was hoping for. I'll try to get some video tomorrow using that cue and post it here.

No prob dude. I hope it helps.

[PatrickDB]

Monday, November 20.
(Format is Sets x Reps)

Bodyweight: 161

Bench 150 5x5
Squat 200 4x5
Chins 7/7/7/5/5/5/5


Decided to hold off on going crazy with the pressing until I hit my goal of 120 3x5 on the press Wednesday (to avoid any extra fatigue that might affect that). Put my feet just a touch wider for the bench today and felt more stable. Will try to remember to do that in the future.

Squats are still a mess. There's still lumbar flexion, and today I realized the bar path is significantly deviating from vertical. I'm not sure how to fix this. The weight felt very manageable, so any issues are entirely my fault.

[video snipped]

[KyleSchuant]

Supermans. You need to learn how to voluntarily contract your lower back muscles, and hold them tight through the lift. I'd sort that out before worrying about the other stuff.

[d0uevenlift]

The Superman stuff never worked for me, but YMMV. When you're under some heavy ass weight, the last thing you're going to want to think of is contracting your low back muscles.

Try this: think of starting your squat with your chest up by contracting your lats and thoracic spine hard. Let this set the rest of your back into rigid extension. It's your job to maintain that extension hard throughout the lift. Doing this *might* keep you from relaxing at the bottom without overthinking your lumbar flexion.

Definitely post in the form check section. There are a lot of smart people here currently coaching and there are former SSCs, too. You'll get the help you need. But these squats are starting to look better, and you are definitely not keeping your knees too far back.