Who is on a cut?

[ch]

Unfortunately I think many of us have to essentially get stage lean and build our way back up from there really slowly to get the body we want.

I’ve come to the same realization. Would love to shed the spare tire once and for all, then be able to “bulk” within a healthy body fat range. Never want to have a 40” waist again.

[JohnHelton]

I am thinking that I will have to get to about 32" before I really have abs. At 34.5", I'm starting to get what I call "pre-abs". That is fat contoured by the abs. I don't feel like I'm losing a bunch of overall size at this point, as the fat seems to be coming mostly off my stomach now. I have been losing about 1.1 lbs./week. So slow. That is the hard part. I'm ready to be eating in a small surplus to fuel the gains. However, I don't want to quit early again. Patience. My wife joked this morning, "What are you going to do? Have abs for a day? Take a picture and then say good-bye to them?" Maybe.

[cwd]

I wanted to have visible abs while being "overweight" according to BMI, but it's looking a bit doubtful.

I'm 17% BF now according to Navy, another 5 lbs would put me at just barely "overweight", and still about 14%. Is it likely to have sharp abs at 14%?

[JohnHelton]

I wanted to have visible abs while being "overweight" according to BMI, but it's looking a bit doubtful.

I'm 17% BF now according to Navy, another 5 lbs would put me at just barely "overweight", and still about 14%. Is it likely to have sharp abs at 14%?

No. Unfortunately, not. I'm just over 14%. Pre-abs.

[cwd]

I'm down 11 kg ( 24 lbs ) so far. Have a ways to go yet, but I'm not in a hurry.

I have started thinking about making more holes in my Best belt, tho. Have anyone got any suggestions?
I have been thinking about threating the belt as a piece of wood, and use a wood drill bit at slow speed.

Wood drill works if you don't have a leather punch.

[cwd]

I wanted to have visible abs while being "overweight" according to BMI, but it's looking a bit doubtful.

I'm 17% BF now according to Navy, another 5 lbs would put me at just barely "overweight", and still about 14%. Is it likely to have sharp abs at 14%?

No. Unfortunately, not. I'm just over 14%. Pre-abs.

Crap. I hope I'm done with this cut by Thanksgiving.

[FredM]

I wanted to have visible abs while being "overweight" according to BMI, but it's looking a bit doubtful.

I'm 17% BF now according to Navy, another 5 lbs would put me at just barely "overweight", and still about 14%. Is it likely to have sharp abs at 14%?

No. Unfortunately, not. I'm just over 14%. Pre-abs.

Mike Matthews and others have said many if not most guys have to get to like 10%.

I might bulk before that and get there closer to 180 lbs. I’m not psychologically prepared to weigh 165 rofl

[JohnHelton]

I wanted to have visible abs while being "overweight" according to BMI, but it's looking a bit doubtful.

I'm 17% BF now according to Navy, another 5 lbs would put me at just barely "overweight", and still about 14%. Is it likely to have sharp abs at 14%?

No. Unfortunately, not. I'm just over 14%. Pre-abs.

Mike Matthews and others have said many if not most guys have to get to like 10%.

I might bulk before that and get there closer to 180 lbs. I’m not psychologically prepared to weigh 165 rofl

I also don't think it makes sense to be losing much lean body mass (LBM) while in search of abs. By my calculations, I've actually gains a couple pounds of LBM while cutting. I didn't think you were suppose to be able to do that. If I saw my LBM going down (besides some amount of associated water weight), I would quit cutting. I've seen stories of people wasting away while trying to get "stage ready". That's isn't good.

[cwd]

@JohnHelton, I think that losing muscle on a cut mostly happens when people don't keep training hard.

I.e. they get injured and stop training, but keep cutting. Or the tiredness caused by a long/steep deficit keep them from pushing hard in the gym. Or they believe the theory that you should cut volume and/or intensity during a cut.

If I get to a point where the calorie deficit required to continue to lose fat, makes me too miserable to train, I'll just abandon the cut.

My #1 goal is to be able to bulk for a few months w/o going over a 36.5" waist, I'm there already. The abs thing is kind of a whim.

[Wayne]

Have any of you guys targeted abs (situps, rollouts etc) with assistance work? It’s not something I have done much, I’m wondering if now we’re cutting fat off if that’s to our detriment. I’ve obviously been doing the usual “big 4” at reasonable weights throughout, but wondering if more assistance would have helped.

[michael]

You'll need your waist to be < 45% of your height to look lean.

[BenM]

I wanted to have visible abs while being "overweight" according to BMI, but it's looking a bit doubtful.

I'm 17% BF now according to Navy, another 5 lbs would put me at just barely "overweight", and still about 14%. Is it likely to have sharp abs at 14%?

No. Unfortunately, not. I'm just over 14%. Pre-abs.

Mike Matthews and others have said many if not most guys have to get to like 10%.

I might bulk before that and get there closer to 180 lbs. I’m not psychologically prepared to weigh 165 rofl

I would totally agree with this. I was sub 10% (and very light; at one point I hit 62kg / 136lbs!) and still the top two abs were the only ones with any definition at all, and even they weren't great.

There are genetic outliers (I think MattDoesFitness on YouTube/IG claims/seems to be one) who carry most of their body fat elsewhere but most of us will need to be fairly lean to be able to see them. Also, they need to be reasonably well developed and I don't think squatting and deadlifting really gives them enough hypertrophic stimulus to get them popping. Sure, your core will be reasonably strong, but not necessarily defined.

Which brings me to

Have any of you guys targeted abs (situps, rollouts etc) with assistance work? It’s not something I have done much, I’m wondering if now we’re cutting fat off if that’s to our detriment. I’ve obviously been doing the usual “big 4” at reasonable weights throughout, but wondering if more assistance would have helped.

I have, but not enough. Over the past couple of months I've been trying to throw in ab work at least once a week but it's been derailed by a bit of an ab or intercostal strain which has put a pin in it for a bit. It seems a fair bit better now though (and I also seem to have got myself to a position where I'm actually gaining a bit of lean mass again) so I'm going to attempt it again and see how things go over the next couple of months. I'm still lean enough (~11%ish BF) that I should be able to notice a difference if it actually has an effect.

[FredM]

Mike Matthews is probably my favorite resource for this stuff:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.muscle ... k-abs/amp/

I definitely skip too many ab workouts. Like all of them.

[JohnHelton]

@JohnHelton, I think that losing muscle on a cut mostly happens when people don't keep training hard.

I.e. they get injured and stop training, but keep cutting. Or the tiredness caused by a long/steep deficit keep them from pushing hard in the gym. Or they believe the theory that you should cut volume and/or intensity during a cut.

If I get to a point where the calorie deficit required to continue to lose fat, makes me too miserable to train, I'll just abandon the cut.

My #1 goal is to be able to bulk for a few months w/o going over a 36.5" waist, I'm there already. The abs thing is kind of a whim.

I think you stated my feelings exactly. You and I aren't spring chickens on the prowl, where abs might be of benefit. It would be a cool thing to accomplish, but it is really a secondary priority. I want to be able to bulk for an extended period of time without getting fat. I work in professional environment where I am already riding the line of normalcy in regard to my bulk. I'm only 5'8" and am 200 lbs. with 14% BF. That isn't normal (especially at 46), and I get comments regularly. I'm not ready to say, "screw it," and bulk to 105kg. That may come, but as of right now, I would like to stay in the 93kg weight class. That means staying lean. For me, this is all about lifting and staying healthy. 14% is definitely healthy, but I want to bulk and remain healthy. Abs would be cool, but that is secondary.

Incidentally, I find it crazy that professional males seem to be so concern with having a runner/triathlete body. I guess they associate bulk with being a laborer. Really stupid, but I do think it is a bit of classism. Of course, I have disdain for such things. I am also giving myself a close buzz cut again while I have a full head of hair. That isn't considered normal either at work. Screw it.

[cwd]

@JohnHelton, regrettably I am not bulky despite my efforts. My cut is leaving me looking like a crossfitter. I'd fit right in at the office.

[JohnHelton]

@JohnHelton, regrettably I am not bulky despite my efforts. My cut is leaving me looking like a crossfitter. I'd fit right in at the office.

That isn’t a terrible thing. I am a bit of a freak. I just wish I had started lifting earlier. Being thin and strong though is a good thing. Especially as we get older.

[ch]

You'll need your waist to be < 45% of your height to look lean.

By that metric I’d need to be 31.5”. As an “adult” the lowest my waist has been is 32” when I was 16, on the HS swim team, thought I was a surfer, and had abs. And that is based on pants size, so my actual waist might have even been bigger.

Maybe it’s because I have genetic thunder thighs.

[TimK]

Incidentally, I find it crazy that professional males seem to be so concern with having a runner/triathlete body. I guess they associate bulk with being a laborer. Really stupid, but I do think it is a bit of classism.

Is this a real thing?

[MattimusMaximus]

Another thing worth mentioning is the change in personal identity. I really liked looking "impressive" in a hoodie and jeans and having people at work joke about "I wouldn't want to mess with broseph!" You never really hear that stuff about lean guys unless they are also absolutely huge. This is an extra special glimpse into my own insecurities, but is real and I wanted to share for anyone else struggling.

^This... right in the feelz

[JohnHelton]

Incidentally, I find it crazy that professional males seem to be so concern with having a runner/triathlete body. I guess they associate bulk with being a laborer. Really stupid, but I do think it is a bit of classism.

Is this a real thing?

My wife and I are convinced that it is. When we go out to dinner, we see so many men that seem to be competing with their wives as to which one can be the skinniest. They all want to look something like Jordan Spieth. Long and lean. That works well in a suit. And looking good in a suit while having "great hair" signals that you are successful. Obviously, I don't buy into that world view.

Oh, and the wives trying to be as tiny as models...that doesn't workout so well when they are in their late 40s and losing all musculature.

People should try to avoid being fat. That isn't healthy. However, I wish it was more common for people to want to be strong AF. I literally don't know anyone else outside of this forum and Instagram that is doing that.

I just remembered this story: After my first powerlifting meet, my wife wanted to show off videos of me lifting in competition to her family at Christmas. My sister-in-law (a runner) was so disgusted that she couldn't watch any of the videos. Literally, none of her family can understand why I do what I do. It seems very strange to me. One could ask the very same question of the runner. Why run? However, that practice is very widely accepted.