Greyskull switching out stalled lifts

[Travis]

I think that's pretty much how Mike T's Emerging Strategies works, at the most basic level. Do something until it quits working, change something & run it until it quits & so on.

Technically, I don't think you have to use variations to use the ES framework. You could use the same movements every block, but just change other factors. Rep range, # of sets, total reps, RPE, frequency, cycle length, etc.

That's why I said "basic level" & "something". I hate/suck at typing, so all my posts are more overview than details.

[nealstar]

I think that's pretty much how Mike T's Emerging Strategies works, at the most basic level. Do something until it quits working, change something & run it until it quits & so on.

Technically, I don't think you have to use variations to use the ES framework. You could use the same movements every block, but just change other factors. Rep range, # of sets, total reps, RPE, frequency, cycle length, etc.

That's why I said "basic level" & "something". I hate/suck at typing, so all my posts are more overview than details.

Word. Suggesting clarification, not correction.

[Travis]

I think that's pretty much how Mike T's Emerging Strategies works, at the most basic level. Do something until it quits working, change something & run it until it quits & so on.

Technically, I don't think you have to use variations to use the ES framework. You could use the same movements every block, but just change other factors. Rep range, # of sets, total reps, RPE, frequency, cycle length, etc.

That's why I said "basic level" & "something". I hate/suck at typing, so all my posts are more overview than details.

Word. Suggesting clarification, not correction.

Kinda what I thought, thanks for giving words to my cave paintings.

[MattimusMaximus]

I honestly was thinking lift rotation was BS untill I posted here, I'm happy I did

I don't think it's BS...but there's no magic.

I've also rotated lifts with....doing absolutely nothing. And the trained lift progressed better after doing nothing. I stopped benching in Feb of 2018 with a 386 max....did jack shit until December 2018 and worked up to ~405 really quickly.

Probably just some combo of renewed motivation and much-needed deload.

Yeah what’s up with this phenomena? I’ve barely been training lately due to life and I’m finding I feel more refreshed when I train now. Haven’t lost any strength during this time and e1RM’s are actually slightly higher than when I trained more regulary.

[cwd]

I'm trying to learn how to not constantly overtrain right now.

Taking a very light week as I was hurting and regressing. I basically never do this. Wish me luck.

[nealstar]

As I've been working to understand and implement the Emerging Strategies approach, I find that at the end of development blocks I'm super-eager for the pivot, and at the end of the pivot I'm super-eager for the next development block. But I'm also finding value in a having the pivot blocks be as carefully constructed as the dev block and not just a randomly light week or two. The latter seems to have fucked me up when starting the next block.

[chrisd]

I've also rotated lifts with....doing absolutely nothing. And the trained lift progressed better after doing nothing. I stopped benching in Feb of 2018 with a 386 max....did jack shit until December 2018 and worked up to ~405 really quickly.

Probably just some combo of renewed motivation and much-needed deload.

10 month SRA cycle

[Salahudin]

What do you guys think though is the limitations of this approach, i.e when to begin a more block style approach ala BBM,mm ,HLM

I'm not really familiar with BBM's stuff, but you can do block periodization with or without rotating lifts. I got some coaching from JP at one point (it's in my log if you look at spring of last year), and for pressing he had me start with a bunch volume on z presses during the volume block, then two sets to failure on standing press during the intensity block. I set a 140x4 pr if I remember right. Nothing impressive but it was progress.

And you can also rotate lifts in a HLM fashion on a greyskull-type template. For example, one of the suggested templates in the book involves rotating between decline, overhead, and incline pressing each training day. That's heavy, light, medium right there.

Thanks @platypus I never thought that HLM was implemented implicity although maybe unintended like that in one of the suggested templates

[CamLeslie]

As I've been working to understand and implement the Emerging Strategies approach, I find that at the end of development blocks I'm super-eager for the pivot, and at the end of the pivot I'm super-eager for the next development block. But I'm also finding value in a having the pivot blocks be as carefully constructed as the dev block and not just a randomly light week or two. The latter seems to have fucked me up when starting the next block.

Can you give an example of a pivot week vs randomly light week? Asking for a friend.

[GlasgowJock]

I'm trying to learn how to not constantly overtrain right now.

Taking a very light week as I was hurting and regressing. I basically never do this. Wish me luck.

Surprised to read this mate, why do you feel that is?

Can you give an example of a pivot week vs randomly light week? Asking for a friend.

Curious myself as I'm doing a "light" week and wondering if it was a "pivot" week in this weeks vernacular.

[cwd]

Taking a very light week as I was hurting and regressing. I basically never do this. Wish me luck.

Surprised to read this mate, why do you feel that is?

A bunch of little things add up to lower my recovery budget lately. Cutting weight, adding a little more cardio, lowered my dose of T (switched from an "anti-aging clinic" to a regular doctor), plus April is allergy season.

My normal volume and intensity is right at the limit of what I can recover from, it started to wear me down. I'm reducing sets and swapping exercise variants. I plan to gradually add sets back in as my recovery catches up (i.e. as my elbow and hips are less pissed off).

[nealstar]

I'm trying to learn how to not constantly overtrain right now.

Taking a very light week as I was hurting and regressing. I basically never do this. Wish me luck.

Surprised to read this mate, why do you feel that is?

Can you give an example of a pivot week vs randomly light week? Asking for a friend.

Curious myself as I'm doing a "light" week and wondering if it was a "pivot" week in this weeks vernacular.

I can tell you what I did that didn't work well, and what seems to be working better.

What didn't work was saying "I'll just stop doing the main movements for a week or two and do 3X10 on some basically random shit at an arbitrary low RPE in a vaguely full body lay-out." I did use some RTS guidance about pivot duration being 1/3 of the prior block length, and used this article as a rough guide towards movement selection: https://articles.reactivetrainingsystem ... on-blocks/

At the beginning of the next block, I ended up getting DOMS so bad that I wasn't recovered by the beginning of the 2nd cycle, and basically had a downturn in performance while I got re-acclimated to the movements and the volume.

What seems to be working better is:
1) A slight reduction in work sets per movement pattern compared to the prior and following block
2) A slight reduction in RPE compared to the prior and following block
3) An total rep load that is an average between the prior and following block
4) Keeping the main movements in, but:
a) artificially reducing the absolute intensity with things like tempo work, and
b) taking half their volume and allocating it to compound supplemental and accessory movements like split squats and JM presses.
5) Many of the supplemental and accessory movements were chosen to help "prep" for heavier novel movements to be used in the following block. For example, I'm using Front Squats in my current block, but hadn't done them in a long time. So when I decided to use half of my squat volume on single-leg work, I chose front racked split squats so I could get used to the rack position.
6) I'm still adding some additional movements in based on that RTS article, but I can't speculate on what effect that might be having.

I'm at the end of the first cycle of the new block, and I have no DOMS issues interfering with performance intra- or inter-session. The main movements feel like they have a "greased groove," and the e1RMs are starting off much closer to where they were in the middle of the last block. What remains to be seen is if my performance plateaus any sooner which might indicate that I did too much in the pivot.

[Salahudin]

Cool how a simple question has turned to an educational tangent

[KyleSchuant]

Thank you KyleSchuant you were one of many guys that got me to stop following the cult of rippetoe.

I'm always surprised to hear this sort of thing. It's like recently when two members bought lifetime memberships - I'm just some idiot in his garage, I don't expect anyone to take me seriously or care what I think. At least Hanley keeps me in my place.

Anyway, I think the GS approach is good. I've a friend who trained his son in discus and lifting. He said, "We'd press until we got stuck, then start the incline press at that weight, and go on until it got stuck, then start the bench there and go on until it got stuck... then back to press at the old weight, which was now easy." It's not scientific but I could see how it'd work, especially if were dealing with an adolescent male as he was.

[Hanley]

At least Hanley keeps me in my place.

Happy to help, Bruv