SS 5 step deadlift setup

[Salahudin]

Hi guys just curious I have essentially ditched be lowbar for highbar,follow Greg nuckols advice for benching compared to the book, still press 2.0. just wondering if the 5 step method is correct or is their a better method. Thanks

[KyleSchuant]

It's worked for most people I've trained, it gives a good ascent. Then you just have to stop them squatting the bar down on the descent. But they pick it up safely and effectively.

It's just a struggle for a certain fraction of guys who have poor bodily awareness, and some young women who have so little muscle mass in their lower backs that they can't feel it contract; with them you have to get creative.

[BostonRugger]

It still works for me. It isn’t the One True Way as they’d have you believe, but it’ll lead to a decent deadlift. Just don’t get to carried away with the high hips stuff*.


*I pull with my hips pretty high. Part anthropometry, part habit.

[Fzt]

You could experiment with a slightly rounded upper back off of the floor if you want to.

[Salahudin]

Thanks guys

[perman]

The modification I've made over the years is the one Alan Thrall suggested of changing step 3 of dropping hips to hit the bar rather than bending the knees. I think it's better:

[cwd]

You could experiment with a slightly rounded upper back off of the floor if you want to.

I used to do this (not on purpose, I'm just not good at extending my upper back). It does improve your leverages a bit, and so long as you do it consistently you'll adapt to it -- it never injured me.

But I've lately been doing a better job of keeping my back very flat, and I find that while it limits my max weight a bit, it also makes deadlifting less fatiguing. So I can do a lot more sets per week.

Btw, another good cue for finding your correct hip height is that the front of your arm should be about even with the front of your knee at the starting point.

[mgil]

It still works for me. It isn’t the One True Way as they’d have you believe, but it’ll lead to a decent deadlift. Just don’t get to carried away with the high hips stuff*.

Yeah, the model is okay but does leave some folks with high hips.

[perman]

It still works for me. It isn’t the One True Way as they’d have you believe, but it’ll lead to a decent deadlift. Just don’t get to carried away with the high hips stuff*.

Yeah, the model is okay but does leave some folks with high hips.

Thus why you should make the alteration Alan suggests....

[Salahudin]

Thanks @perman I tend to lean forward too much

[Wilhelm]

If you record from the side, you can find your ideal hip height by seeing when your whole back/body rises at the same time as your hips.

The hips will move higher or lower before the pull depending on if they are low or high.

You want to get tight, sit back into your set up while taking all the slack out of your arms, and shoulders, and the bar.
Click the weights as you pull the slack out. The bar will bend in this phase if the load is not really light.
You are pulling even before you start the lift.
You are engaging your lats (pulling the bar across your legs, putting your elbows in your back pocket, protecting your armpits, etc...) and extending your lower back. ( i know what this is, but someone correct me if i'm saying it wrong)
Pointing your butthole to the wall is a cue i've seen used. Pretty accurate imo.
Your hips should come into position in this pre pull phase.
They will find their level regardless when you pull, so have that happen before the full pull.

[mouse]

Then you just have to stop them squatting the bar down on the descent.

What dis?

Just curious what you mean, is this in reference to people I see occasionally break their knees first?

[KyleSchuant]

Yes. They break their knees first, so that the bar has to go forward and then it kind of drops over their kneecaps and down towards their toes. They then try to pull it from their toes... which often leads to a stiff-legged round-backed pull, and further misery and fuckery.

It's more or less instinctive and is seen in many novice lifters, probably because in everyday life if you pick up something heavy, you kind of straddle it and do this deadlift/squat mishmash of a movement to pick it up, stagger along for a bit, and then... well, you get the picture.

If you drill them first for a few weeks just hingeing at the hips, "patterning" as Dan John calls it (goblet squat --> barbell squat, plank --> pushup --> bench press, etc), they don't do that. But SS does not have patterning movements, just go straight to the bar each time. Which works too, it just requires a coach be there one-on-one.

[cwd]

It took me some effort to train myself out of hitting my knees on the way down. I wore holes in a couple pairs of sweatpants first...

[deant]

It took me some effort to train myself out of hitting my knees on the way down. I wore holes in a couple pairs of sweatpants first...

Or hit them really hard one time and you will never do it again. Not recommended.

[mouse]

Yes. They break their knees first, so that the bar has to go forward and then it kind of drops over their kneecaps and down towards their toes. They then try to pull it from their toes... which often leads to a stiff-legged round-backed pull, and further misery and fuckery.

Yeah OK I was following you then...

It drives me nuts when I see it... it's like an inherent fear of breaking the floor.

Just hinge your damn hips and let the bar drop... your dang knees take care of themselves...

[brkriete]

Some guy at SS a few years ago was very concerned with the physics of how you could possibly lower the bar and bend your legs without shearing your kneecaps off with the barbell as you lowered it.....

[KyleSchuant]

It drives me nuts when I see it... it's like an inherent fear of breaking the floor.

Just hinge your damn hips and let the bar drop... your dang knees take care of themselves...

No, I think it's an instinctive fear of breaking the back, not the floor. It's the same reason people stay way upright in the low-bar back squat. They're trying to avoid shearing forces in the lower back. In the case of the deadlift, squatting the bar down does reduce the shear forces - until you have to pass the knees, then it's a big jump in the shear forces in one go, on the same principle as that old illustration from SS of the guy holding the barbell standing on end, then struggling to hold it as it tips over away from him. So you can squat the bar down, and have small shearing force then a huge one, or you can hip hinge it down and have a moderate shearing force throughout the lift.

To some extent it's a self-correcting problem as the novice progresses, since you can squat down 60kg and put it over your toes, but it's a lot harder to do that with 100 or 140kg. Like the arm pull with the clean, there's an argument for just ignoring it and letting it correct itself in time. But some people with unusually persistent poor bodily awareness, or poor coaching, will keep on squatting it down even when it's heavy for them. So it's best to do it right from the start, if at all possible.

It's a common but easily-corrected problem that comes up when coaching people with no real previous training history.

[ChrisMcCarthy1979]

Or you can squat it down and getting a training effect from it...

[FredM]

Hi guys just curious I have essentially ditched be lowbar for highbar,follow Greg nuckols advice for benching compared to the book, still press 2.0. just wondering if the 5 step method is correct or is their a better method. Thanks

I think it's a mostly great method but pretty redundant. Alan Thrall and Dr. Baraki point out that for (almost) everyone they've coached, all you really have to do is make sure your knees are flush with the front of your arms/elbows.

That's all I do now. That plus occasionally tape my lift to make sure my hips are ascending at the same speed as my upper back.

I've also found the shoulder blades in my back pocket to be an infinitely more useful cue for pulling the slack out of the bar.