Guns and Shit

[KOTJ]

9mm vs 45m hollow point test

[Mkgillman]

Huh. Haven't tried. I use a Rogue Euro 28mm bearing for curls.

Real, real nice bar.

real beaut. Great bar. Fantastic spin and whip.

Total overkill for curls. I only will use these, but I do have the entire collection of branded bumpers.

[strega]

The p238 is SAO btw. From what I've been able to read online, it looks like the average civilian gun use results in about 3 shots fired. The p238 holds 7rds, but you can get a magazine with 8.

Went to a gun shop last night and looked at several 9mm/.380s. I’ve never owned 1911 like gun, never held one until last night. The salesman was showing me how the Sig P238 and I asked so I don’t want to leave it in a loaded position what do I need to do. He said that I’d have to “walk the hammer back” after I draw the gun, which was a bit confusing. Basically what I got out of this is that if my finger slipped off the hammer before I had it locked the gun would fire. Is this right? By his own admission, he was the “new guy” there and not knowing anything about these kinds of guns that seems weird.

Ruger LCP II seemed very small and impossible to operate the slide release left-handed.
XD Mod.2 3” too big
Walther PK380, they only had one in blue that made it look cheap.

Nothing seems right feeling a lot like Goldilocks.

[aurelius]

Went to a gun shop last night and looked at several 9mm/.380s. I’ve never owned 1911 like gun, never held one until last night. The salesman was showing me how the Sig P238 and I asked so I don’t want to leave it in a loaded position what do I need to do. He said that I’d have to “walk the hammer back” after I draw the gun, which was a bit confusing. Basically what I got out of this is that if my finger slipped off the hammer before I had it locked the gun would fire. Is this right? By his own admission, he was the “new guy” there and not knowing anything about these kinds of guns that seems weird.

If you are not comfortable with carrying a 1911 cocked and locked, then do not carry one.

In short, if you pull the hammer back on a firearm that uses a hammer to strike the pin and release the hammer before it is in it's locked position, the hammer will return forward and strike the pin. Depending on how far back you pulled the hammer will determine if the firearm discharges. Think Cowboys shooting their revolvers quickly by fanning the hammer.

Attempting to ready the action under duress is problematic. I would recommend a DA firearm.

[EricK]

Went to a gun shop last night and looked at several 9mm/.380s. I’ve never owned 1911 like gun, never held one until last night. The salesman was showing me how the Sig P238 and I asked so I don’t want to leave it in a loaded position what do I need to do. He said that I’d have to “walk the hammer back” after I draw the gun, which was a bit confusing. Basically what I got out of this is that if my finger slipped off the hammer before I had it locked the gun would fire. Is this right? By his own admission, he was the “new guy” there and not knowing anything about these kinds of guns that seems weird.

If you are not comfortable with carrying a 1911 cocked and locked, then do not carry one.

In short, if you pull the hammer back on a firearm that uses a hammer to strike the pin and release the hammer before it is in it's locked position, the hammer will return forward and strike the pin. Depending on how far back you pulled the hammer will determine if the firearm discharges. Think Cowboys shooting their revolvers quickly by fanning the hammer.

Attempting to ready the action under duress is problematic. I would recommend a DA firearm.

I know the Baretta has a half-cock lock safety to prevent that. Would be surprised if it was the only hammer fired pistol that had that feature.

[cwd]

When I decock a handgun that lacks a dedicated safe-decocking lever, I put my other-hand thumb under the hammer.

If the hammer slips, I just get a bruised thumbnail, not an accidental discharge.

That said, I agree with aurelius that 1911-style guns should be carried cocked and locked, in a holster that covers the trigger and the safety, or left at home.
They aren't any more likely to go off in the holster than a Glock-style trigger.

Main risk is that something (i.e. your finger) will be in the trigger-guard while sliding the gun into the holster. Lots of folks shoot themselves in the foot/ass that way. Never be in a hurry when holstering a gun!

[strega]

If you are not comfortable with carrying a 1911 cocked and locked, then do not carry one.

Right, I own a GP 100, it’s the cowboy hammer issue. I’m not sure about cocked and locked, not sure about IWB and OWB. I might be a smart move to buy holsters for my 642 revolver and flush out which way I’m comfortable carrying, if at all. I’ve only pocket carried the 642 and that really gets old fast, very bulky.

[cwd]

GP100 has a drop-safe hammer -- if the trigger isn't pulled back, the hammer cannot contact the round and cause a discharge, even if you hit the cocked hammer hard enough to break the gun.

Basically, the firing pin is not part of the hammer -- it's on a little metal tab that slides up into place when the trigger is pulled. Normally it's retracted and the hammer cannot reach the back of the cartridge by itself.

[aurelius]

I know the Baretta has a half-cock lock safety to prevent that. Would be surprised if it was the only hammer fired pistol that had that feature.

There are a lot of work a rounds to this issue seen in a variety of firearms. Consider that a concealed carry firearm is small and built for concealment. Many features that are not essential to the operation of the firearm are removed to reduce weight and size.

[EricK]

I know the Baretta has a half-cock lock safety to prevent that. Would be surprised if it was the only hammer fired pistol that had that feature.

There are a lot of work a rounds to this issue seen in a variety of firearms. Consider that a concealed carry firearm is small and built for concealment. Many features that are not essential to the operation of the firearm are removed to reduce weight and size.

Makes sense. I've never looked for a CCW.

#notarealman

[ShuggyBear]

I know the Baretta has a half-cock lock safety to prevent that. Would be surprised if it was the only hammer fired pistol that had that feature.

The CZ 75 and several of it's variants also have a half-cock. CZ's are my favorite semi-auto pistols.

[strega]

WTF!?

Does everyone know this and I just figured it out?
Kahr has been around a bit right? Decent reputation right?

Founded by Justin Moon, aka Moon Kook-jin, aka son of Sun Myung Moon, the founder of the Unification Church.

[topfen]

Do any of you know why the Beretta 92s have a bad reputation? I have only fired a handful of pistols so far, but this was always the one I wanted to get if I started pistol shooting.

I know the Baretta has a half-cock lock safety to prevent that. Would be surprised if it was the only hammer fired pistol that had that feature.

The CZ 75 and several of it's variants also have a half-cock. CZ's are my favorite semi-auto pistols.

Those are cool. My grandfather got one for hunting (used police pistol) to replace his P38/P1 and it was real easy to shoot with a great trigger.

[Jay870]

Do any of you know why the Beretta 92s have a bad reputation? I have only fired a handful of pistols so far, but this was always the one I wanted to get if I started pistol shooting.

92S specifically is not a common pistol.

92 generically (92FS / M9A1 is the most common)... good pistols, reliable with quality magazines. Ergonomics are not great for many shooters. Trigger reach is too long, trigger pull is too long. Overall trigger quality can be improved from OEM but does not have the same potentials as many other DA/SA guns. Slide mounted safety/decocker arrangement is just weird and I hate it. OEM sights are shit... this is true of most pistols but on most 92 models the front sight is integral to the slide and cannot be replaced without milling.

There are a hundred factory variants of this gun which address various combinations of its shortcomings. For competition shooters I think the Elite models were the most desirable but are out of production.

92FS won at least one, maybe two USPSA Production Nationals before that shooter switched over to Tanfoglio.

[topfen]

Do any of you know why the Beretta 92s have a bad reputation? I have only fired a handful of pistols so far, but this was always the one I wanted to get if I started pistol shooting.

92S specifically is not a common pistol.

92 generically (92FS / M9A1 is the most common)... good pistols, reliable with quality magazines. Ergonomics are not great for many shooters. Trigger reach is too long, trigger pull is too long. Overall trigger quality can be improved from OEM but does not have the same potentials as many other DA/SA guns. Slide mounted safety/decocker arrangement is just weird and I hate it. OEM sights are shit... this is true of most pistols but on most 92 models the front sight is integral to the slide and cannot be replaced without milling.

There are a hundred factory variants of this gun which address various combinations of its shortcomings. For competition shooters I think the Elite models were the most desirable but are out of production.

92FS won at least one, maybe two USPSA Production Nationals before that shooter switched over to Tanfoglio.

Thanks for the information, i only fired them half a dozen times so and they always felt great in my hands. But I heard (only range talk) that the US military is not very happy with it.

The "s" was meant as a plural thing, i don't know anything about all the different variants. Sorry about that.

[EricK]

Thanks for the information, i only fired them half a dozen times so and they always felt great in my hands. But I heard (only range talk) that the US military is not very happy with it.

The "s" was meant as a plural thing, i don't know anything about all the different variants. Sorry about that.

I am not an expert either (*shame face), but the complaint I hear most about the baretta is over-penetration (i.e. lack of stopping power). The military went with it because it's a NATO round (cheaper in bulk), with a higher mag capacity and longer range (~50 yards).

The counter to all of those is that the war fighter wants stopping power over penetration and ranges inside ~30 yards are fine because downed pilots and SF operators (and, I guess officers who like to pretend that they need to carry a side arm) don't plan on using it farther away than that.

As I understand it, SOCOM went to a (S&W?) .40, because it has comparable mag capacity with better stopping power than 9mm. But I've been out for a while and don't follow it as closely as I used to. Also, I've had 3 Devil's Backbone IPAs for lunch, so this post may be illegible.

[cwd]

Pistols are nearly irrelevant wrt winning battles and wars. The military buys some anyway to make the troops happy, and to arm military police and guards.

I think their biggest criteria are about making the whole organization work better. I.e. 9mm to be able to share ammo with the European NATO members who like that round, sourced from a NATO member's defense industry to encourage mfg capacity, durable, etc.

Small "elite" units who actually expect to fight with their pistols often buy small batches of non-standard pistols. I'm guessing this is to humor/honor them, rather than because it matters very much wrt their mission.

It's weird that civilian gun nuts *care* so much about what brands the military and police like. The requirements for target shooting or concealed-carry are very, very different from what military/police shop for.

[topfen]

I think another problem with military pistols is that they are kept in inventory for way too long and most soldiers only receive very little training on them. While i served in the crappy austrian military I went to a military shooting competition in germany that was hosted by the us army (2009, Monte Kali, hosted by 1st armored something) and I was really surprised that the german and american shooting standards were not higher and how crappy a lot of the soldiers were with pistols(still better than your average austrian conscript ). So a lot of soldiers probably have to deal with worn out equipment and not a lot of coaching.

[KOTJ]

The p238 is SAO btw. From what I've been able to read online, it looks like the average civilian gun use results in about 3 shots fired. The p238 holds 7rds, but you can get a magazine with 8.

Went to a gun shop last night and looked at several 9mm/.380s. I’ve never owned 1911 like gun, never held one until last night. The salesman was showing me how the Sig P238 and I asked so I don’t want to leave it in a loaded position what do I need to do. He said that I’d have to “walk the hammer back” after I draw the gun, which was a bit confusing. Basically what I got out of this is that if my finger slipped off the hammer before I had it locked the gun would fire. Is this right? By his own admission, he was the “new guy” there and not knowing anything about these kinds of guns that seems weird.

Ruger LCP II seemed very small and impossible to operate the slide release left-handed.
XD Mod.2 3” too big
Walther PK380, they only had one in blue that made it look cheap.

Nothing seems right feeling a lot like Goldilocks.

Around 1m40s for how to carry (condition 1)



How to unload

[iamsmu]

What's a good first gun for just home defense? I don't really want a shotgun sitting in a closet, though it might be best. I'm looking for something around $500 or less.