DL back rounding

[cole]

clearly my back rounds when i pull heavy. this feels fine to me, no pain, and it seems to be the only way i can pull over 80%. perhaps my upper back is weak. the question: do i de load and work on flat back DL? i really dont want to bc my DL already sucks and i NEED to get to 500. ive had very little DL improvements since i started (405 within the first couple months, 3 years later only 475 )

435x5 w/fifth rep hitch

[Manveer]

It seems like the biggest issue is that you start to have trouble finishing the rep because it gets hard to un-round at the top. I have had the same problem. I failed 585 several times above the knee. Actually I was just cleaning up some space on my laptop last night and watched one of those attempts that was really close.

I tried the approach where you only count flat back reps as good reps. I don’t think it worked that well, but it did seem to help me develop tightness off the floor a little more, which is key to the deadlift IMHO.

Pulling sumo for a few months really helped my conventional deadlift. I came back and smashed 584 and then 601. You might consider that.

Nowadays it seems I can’t really pull conventional without aggravating my back/hip/glute, so I’m pulling sumo for the time being.

I don’t think rounding is inherently bad. @Austin pulls this way and so does John Haack.

[JohnHelton]

I agree with everything @Manveer said. It may not be particularly dangerous, but it can be hard to un-round at the top.

I also think it is a great idea to try sumo for awhile. Given the rods in my back, I can't round my thoracic spine...ever. So I never worried about that. However, if I lift super heavy convention, I do get a bit of rounding in my lumbar. Having herniated it a couple times (still have some numbness in my left foot), I found that lifting convention left a bit of apprehension in my mind. That is why I started pulling sumo. I love it because I can attack the weight without any worry about my back. Plus, the switch was fun given the e1RM gains. I pull 503 conventional and 525 sumo now, so I'm sticking with sumo.

I think Bryce Krawczyk's instructional video on the topic is one of the best.

[cole]

@Manveer @JohnHelton thanks guys , good advice. im doing a pre designed template by BBM right now so i dont think im going to switch up my comp DL in the middle of the program, but i do want to try sumo (maybe even w/flats!) in the future. i guess the best thing to do would be to re-calibrate RPE based on flat back. this sucks bc im going backwards on an already weak lift. oh well, my wife put it best when she said "who cares, you are a 36 year old dad, not a pro powerlifter".

[DrHades]

Hey Cole. My 2 cents is that there is no problem with back rounding , except for what Manveer highlighted. I was curious and went check your training log. I don't know how this particular BBM template is designed, but I suppose there is a 1@8 followed by a backoff of 5@9 and some more light backoffs.
Might be you are overshooting your RPE? Those pulls look pretty heavy, and the excessive rouding could come from choosing too heavy loads. Also, I noticed you are jumping 10 lbs every week. Do you think the RPE is staying the same with every week?

Now, I hope you get good results from the template. But I wonder if someone with your training age wouldn't benefit from more volume, if you have the resources, of course.

You are gonna get your 500 pull man! Step by step!

[cole]

Hey Cole. My 2 cents is that there is no problem with back rounding , except for what Manveer highlighted. I was curious and went check your training log. I don't know how this particular BBM template is designed, but I suppose there is a 1@8 followed by a backoff of 5@9 and some more light backoffs.
Might be you are overshooting your RPE? Those pulls look pretty heavy, and the excessive rouding could come from choosing too heavy loads. Also, I noticed you are jumping 10 lbs every week. Do you think the RPE is staying the same with every week?

Now, I hope you get good results from the template. But I wonder if someone with your training age wouldn't benefit from more volume, if you have the resources, of course.

You are gonna get your 500 pull man! Step by step!

you are exactly right. x1@8, x5@9, backoffs usually -5-10% x2-3 sets. I clearly have been overshooting RPE as im greedy for gainz. ive reached the point though where +10 lbs will not work for any lift, so ill either stay put or better yet, actually use RPE next week lol. as far as volume, i think this program (strength 1) is well designed and has appropriate volume levels for my training age. at the very least, i feel really good going into week 5. thanks for looking at it!

[KarlM]

I tried the approach where you only count flat back reps as good reps. I don’t think it worked that well, but it did seem to help me develop tightness off the floor a little more, which is key to the deadlift IMHO.

Yeah, tightness off the floor definitely played a big role in my recent deadlift progress. My deadlift started moving after I incorporated paused deadlifts (a 1 count, 1” off the floor). I also started to utilize wedging my hips prior to starting the pull (Jim Elli from RTS showed this at a seminar at Convoy Strength that I attended). Practically, (for me at least) this looks like pulling the slack out of the bar as you wedge your hips in.

[mouse]

Oh hai... guy who deadlifts round AF here...

I don't know much about BBM or RPE... but I would agree you're probably (admittedly lol) overshooting. I do the same thing, all the time. For me it's a product of prior training mindset I keep trying to get over.

As far as your back rounding count me among those who doesn't think there's anything inherently wrong with it, but as you have discovered, it can make lockout a bitch. Browsed through your log and from what I see you basically have a comp DL and then a supplemental variation (chains)? Definitely not advising you to jump programs or anything, but after you finish up your current template maybe try a beltless snatch grip for variation. Of all the kinds of deadlifts I've done those seem to demand the most out of my back extension. I try to keep them at a weight where I have a decent level of control over my rounding upper back, and where I can keep my lower back (mostly) locked in.

Could always try sumo too like Manveer said... I think I might actually try that myself for a while at the end of the year...

[FredM]

It kind of seems to me like you don't take the time to really set your back when you start either. Have you tried the shoulder blades in back pocket cue yet?

Pausing my warmups an inch of the floor with this cue in mind really fixed my back rounding almost over night. I too thought I just had a weak upper back but it turns out I was just lazy.

[BostonRugger]

I don’t have much to add, other than to echo what others have said. I don’t think the rounding here is awful. Personally, if I didn’t increase loads due to rounding like what you show, I’d never be able to increase load

Like @mouse mentioned, SGDL might be a good variant for you. My experience has been that using them as a variant has coincided with better extension on my conventional pull.

[cole]

thanks guys @KarlM @FredM @mouse @BostonRugger
good advice all. im not too worried about the rounding , and i think the consensus is right that i overshot RPE. the advice was to setup with the bar a little closer (over midfoot not in front) and pull in flats with long socks. i should try since his total is +400 over mine, but i really dont care for pulling in flats. lol

[JohnHelton]

@cole, who gave you that advice? Some strong dude.

[cole]

double post

[cole]

@cole, who gave you that advice? Some strong dude.

jordan on BBM site

[JohnHelton]

@cole, who gave you that advice? Some strong dude.

jordan on BBM site

Oh yes. He is pretty strong.