SARMS

[mettkeks]

The sound of this thread:

[ohlol]

WHATS UP MOTHER FUCKERS ITS RICH PIANA HERE WITH BIGGER BY THE DAY HE HE HE RIGHT BABE?

[mbasic]

I was going to type up a big incoherent response, but meh.

I glossed over the "baby-boomer" comment in your comparison of SARMS to insulin/HBP meds.
That's actually valid....and is making laugh now.

Basic legal stuff as I understand it.:
SARMS are not allowed in professional sports.
SARMS are not legal to sale for human consumption. But are legal to sale for research purposes (the loophole on how to get it).
SARMS are not criminal to possess or take like steroids.

but regarding this.^ My take the needle comment was in jest of course.
As others have said, you can get TRT via Rx.

But now that you mention it, pretty sure its illegal in most places to be taking/caught with a Rx-drug you don't have a Rx for.
SARMS might dance around that a bit.
Good luck explaining that to police or your judge...and appealing it even when you might be right..

Also, I think the Feds (House/Senate) have a bill floating around to make SARMS illegal (much like roids).
Its dynamic situation, probably best everyone stay off of it for now.
https://www.congress.gov/bill/115th-con ... /2742/text
I haven't read this, but the title doesn't sound good at all....

Good luck waiting around for research to be funded/conducted on the use SARMS with athletes, or non-bed-ridden/healthy populations,
when SARMS are on the WADA list, and soon to be made illegal by your federal government.
No-one is going to fund any research for something that is illegal to make for profit on, US and abroad (WADA).

[aurelius]

but regarding this.^ My take the needle comment was in jest of course.
As others have said, you can get TRT via Rx.

Two points.

The get TRT from an RX is not a valid option for the use we are discussing. TRT through a doctor is given for medical reasons. Good luck getting a doctor to push your total T to the 2000-3000 range (1000 is the upper limit of 'normal' in the medical literature).

I suffered from Low T (less than 200 Total T on three separate tests) and now have Total T of 1000 due to TRT. And that was tough to convince my doctor to do. My PL total before TRT was above 1200. My PL Total after 2 years of TRT is 1345. Roughly 10% gain after 2 years are not atypical gains for a lifter past novice. But I no longer have wild mood swings, long periods of sleeplessness, and other issues I was experiencing previously. TRT is a quality of life treatment for me not a performance enhancer.

SARMS are legal now. They are not a approved for human consumption by the FDA. Which means one cannot commercially market and sell them for human consumption. Hence the legal loophole with the 'For Research' label. They are not illegal to possess and consume by individuals. The prospect that they MAY become a schedule III drug and illegal to possess without a prescription sometime in the future is just that...a prospect. Because the legislation you linked to died in Congress. Mostly illegal is slightly legal. And as the Princess Bride taught us, that is a huge distinction.



Following this discussion, I don't believe one can justify using them for performance enhancement.

[BootyBeech]

I tried SARMS when Chaos and Pain released them for a short while. Ostarine was one but the other I just can't remember. Anyway, they worked. I was lifting better and I had an improvement in my body composition. But it wasn't a huge improvement and if I remember right people reviewing even on Chaos and Pains site said the same thing. I had no fall out from using them. At least as far as I am aware. Did them a second time a year or so later and they had zero noticeable effect.

[5hout]

Mark Bell's Slingshot Youtube channel has an interesting series "Power Project: SARMageddon" that just wrapped up. I watched the first few episodes, lost track of it while busy, and watched the last few. They were interesting, I would like to go back and watch or flip through the rest of them. I wasn't interested in them before, and I'm less interested in them after, but your goals and beliefs may be different.

[bobmen10000]

Mark Bell's Slingshot Youtube channel has an interesting series "Power Project: SARMageddon" that just wrapped up. I watched the first few episodes, lost track of it while busy, and watched the last few. They were interesting, I would like to go back and watch or flip through the rest of them. I wasn't interested in them before, and I'm less interested in them after, but your goals and beliefs may be different.

The star/guinea pig would have made similar gains on any decent (not complete shit) training program combined with eating a mcdouble or two a day in addition to his normal diet. I wanted to like it or at least be engaged by the series but I was sorely disappointed.

[mettkeks]

Mark Bell's Slingshot Youtube channel has an interesting series "Power Project: SARMageddon" that just wrapped up. I watched the first few episodes, lost track of it while busy, and watched the last few. They were interesting, I would like to go back and watch or flip through the rest of them. I wasn't interested in them before, and I'm less interested in them after, but your goals and beliefs may be different.

The star/guinea pig would have made similar gains on any decent (not complete shit) training program combined with eating a mcdouble or two a day in addition to his normal diet. I wanted to like it or at least be engaged by the series but I was sorely disappointed.

Wasn't he like 6' 165lb with a 225 squat, 200 or so bench and did a 300lb deadlift after training like 5+ years? I stopped watching after that.

Edit: 6' 175-180lb, 225 bench, 303 DL and a 300lb HIGH box squat.

[5hout]

https://www.instagram.com/iamandrewz/

Quotes from him posting on his Instragram:

"I had to donate blood because mine is thicker than molasses! My blood was already thick before SARMs, but it only got thicker after my cycle was over. Although I felt no issues at all, it is a serious side effect that shouldn’t be ignored and thankfully it has an easy cure."

"I can’t tell you how long I’ve been wanting to post this! FINALLY!!!! Finally deadlifted THREE PLATES! Couldn’t post so I didn’t spoil the series lol. Very similar to hitting two plates on the bench, this was a huge goal of mine. The weights just moved on this day and everything felt amazing"

"I have zero side effects to report. This of course is just my experience and just what I can report on the surface. There’s still more to this story that we’ll be uncovering soon."

Description of EP. 20 from Youtube: "It is time to reveal Andrew Zaragoza's Post SARM Cycle Therapy (PCT). After a 14 week cycle, Andrew's labs came back worse than expected which has caused him to take a different approach for his post cycle care" (iirc, his total test cratered and everything else was normal-ish, maybe not great, except for his blood viscosity which was too high). If I may politely summarize his PCT: He elected to forgo relatively well understood treatments to get his junk working again and producing test like normal, and instead elected to go on pellet based TRT.

Quote from episode 18, on Youtube "If there's one thing to take away from this, I'm no longer wasting any movements with my bench. My form has gotten so much better" 3:30 in video. To quote my first fencing coach "There's no skill pill"

I don't remember his exact starting lifts, but they weren't particularly impressive.

Finals with context: 315 for reps on the deadlift (off some wheels which make you pull from a more favorable position). 315 for a single, proper start, but (spolier) he tweaked his back and ripped the shit out of his shin. "275ish, for a couple of reps using chains 180 bar, 90 chain weight" on the bench. Then some kind of nonsense about how he couldn't squat because of this.

Video Summary, where he doesn't give context is at

225 for reps, he can do that now.
315 dl, claims to dl 315 for reps (see above).
Squat 300, most he did was 275 for reps.
Weight 181->192, very lean all the time.
BF from 13.7->11.7, I don't know the error bars on a dexa scan.

There's a new episode out with Bell, I'll listen to it later and post my thoughts.

I'm new to more nuanced programming, but with all due respect to this guy: Maybe he should have gained just added 250 calories/day to his total caloric intake, done some intelligent programming and kept lifting. If that didn't provide the results he wanted, 6-8 weeks later added another 250 calories, and repeat. Instead he took some drugs, which cratered his test, and now he's on TRT as an avoidance of proper PCT, which insures his natural test production will stay cratered and he can continue on high-normal TRT.

I'm not saying "add 5 lbs" [of fat], but I'm the same weight (shorter than) and with 1 year of NDTP -> DTP -> TM -> Self programming -> MM I'm near his initial goal numbers bench/dl, and a lot better on squat. Normally the joke is that everyone online and stronger than you is on 'roids, and everyone weaker than you is a wimp. I don't know how to finish the joke for this situation, other than to shake my head.

[mbasic]

wow.

[TimK]

I watched a few episodes of that series out of morbid curiosity but I tuned out when they brought on that "Dr. Tony Huge" douchebag as some kind of medical expert and he was basically giving a sales pitch for SARMS (which he sells btw).

[LexAnderson]

I tried watching this series, but couldn't make it through the first episode. It's clear this was poorly thought out, and that the guy really doesn't seem to understand proper training and dieting as he says.

[mbasic]

Its fun to roast.

I guess another side effect of SARMS is ILS then?



I don't feel bad poking fun because its basically a clickbait video.

[SeanHerbison]

I was subscribed to Mark Bell's channel for a while. He's got a lot of good stuff on there, such as squatting with Ed Coan. But he's also got a lot of, well, let's call it "questionable" material. Things like the "War on Carbs" and "SARMageddon" have been drowning out his more admirable content.

[5hout]

I was subscribed to Mark Bell's channel for a while. He's got a lot of good stuff on there, such as squatting with Ed Coan. But he's also got a lot of, well, let's call it "questionable" material. Things like the "War on Carbs" and "SARMageddon" have been drowning out his more admirable content.

Yes. Also: That squat video with Coan is my favorite. High bar, low bar, any bar, his setup tips and hearing the way he walks through it were incredibly helpful.

[OCG]

Does Mark Bell just not give a shit or what? Any of the random juiceheads I've met with half a clue could give this guy way better advice than doing what he was doing. Surely if he's around Bell and the Super Training gym there must be someone to tell him how stupid he's being?

[LexAnderson]

I was subscribed to Mark Bell's channel for a while. He's got a lot of good stuff on there, such as squatting with Ed Coan. But he's also got a lot of, well, let's call it "questionable" material. Things like the "War on Carbs" and "SARMageddon" have been drowning out his more admirable content.

He has moved on from being a real source of meaningful information to just a gimmick pitchman. I really think that is one of the reasons that Silent Mike left, he was wanting to continue to put out training content, and most likely saw the shift in the channel.

Back when Bell had guys like Coan and Norton on you could learn a thing or two, about a thing or two. Now it's just one gimmick right after the other. I've quit watching his stuff altogether at this point.

[bobmen10000]

I was subscribed to Mark Bell's channel for a while. He's got a lot of good stuff on there, such as squatting with Ed Coan. But he's also got a lot of, well, let's call it "questionable" material. Things like the "War on Carbs" and "SARMageddon" have been drowning out his more admirable content.

He has moved on from being a real source of meaningful information to just a gimmick pitchman. I really think that is one of the reasons that Silent Mike left, he was wanting to continue to put out training content, and most likely saw the shift in the channel.

Back when Bell had guys like Coan and Norton on you could learn a thing or two, about a thing or two. Now it's just one gimmick right after the other. I've quit watching his stuff altogether at this point.

Silent Mike is so damn annoying though. And he is upselling his services constantly, which I understand as you don't really make any money on actual youtube anymore but I do understand why Bell also is focused on selling products and shit at this point with training content peppered in. I can only stand S. Mike with the sound off and captions on.

[SeanHerbison]

Huh. I generally like him. I think he's better when he's paired with someone else though.

[BenM]

Yeah I generally like Mark, but I don't like half the shit he peddles... haha. I am still subscribed to his YT channel but it's pretty unusual I'll watch one of his videos any more. I unsubscribed from Silent Mike, found him pretty boring really. Don't watch Omar much these days either.