Training a young teenager

[DoctorWho]

My son is 13 and a-half, tanner 3 or 4, and beginning training with a barbell.

Background: He wrestles, so time for recovery is going to be a problem. Wrestling practices for kids his age are not less taxing than high school and college wrestling practices. He started LP this fall, and wrestling practices in the pre-season have been sporadic enough so that he's been able to get one or two barbell training days in per week, but I expect it to decrease to once per week. Progress has been OK on the squat and deadlift, but OHP and BP gains have been slow. He places or gets to the round of 12 in national wrestling tournaments, so objectively he can't be too weak.

Questions:
- Is it normal for a kid to make slow gains on OHP and BP (and plateau early) compared with SQ and DL? I'd appreciate experienced comments about what to do about it, other than keep on going.
- We don't have an alternative to fitting in lifting whenever he can, but if somebody has some experience with how this worked out for people you coached, I'd appreciate hearing them.


Weight: 103
SQ: 135 3 x 5 (a tiny bit high with knees all over the place) (started low, about 80)
OHP: 64 3 x 5 (technique is not great, already microloading)
BP: 70 3 x 5 (just starting learning, these sets went right up)
DL: 165 1 x 5 (a few sessions ago, a lot of upside)

[cwd]

His OHP is 62% of bodyweight, are you sure this is not actually a fairly strong lift for 3x5?

[DoctorWho]

His OHP is 62% of bodyweight, are you sure this is not actually a fairly strong lift for 3x5?

Maybe. But even if OHP got a little ahead (I don't have the log in front of me but the OHP jumps might have been too big), the next workout, the SQ is 2.15 times OHP and DL is 2.6 times OHP. Not bad numbers but LP looks to be still going strong on the SQ and DL but hard on OHP. So my question is whether this is common for young teenagers.

[Hanley]

So my question is whether this is common for young teenagers.

Yup. Totally.

He's going to have an entirely different hormone profile in 2 years. Things will be different then.

You'll find the upper/lower lift discrepancy in young kids, women, old dudes, and folks trying to recover from teen years spent eating and playing video games (this last group being "castrati-in-function").

All that said: what sort of load jumps are you making on the presses? (what is "micro-loading on a 64 pound press? Tell me you didn't start him with 2.5 pound jumps...)

[DoctorWho]

So my question is whether this is common for young teenagers.

Yup. Totally.

He's going to have an entirely different hormone profile in 2 years. Things will be different then.

You'll find the upper/lower lift discrepancy in young kids, women, old dudes, and folks trying to recover from teen years spent eating and playing video games (this last group being "castrati-in-function").

All that said: what sort of load jumps are you making on the presses?

If I remember right, the last four weights were 60, 61, 62.5, 64. All 3x5. Some ugly reps in there.
So far the results are meaningful. At a pretty good but not great tournament a week ago, the boy was physically better than most or all of the kids, which is a first.

PS. Thanks to you (and cwd too) for the input.

[Hanley]

^ Who, are you familiar with “ladder” programming?

I kinda like the idea for young kids. Basically you’d hold the weight constant and jump only once a threshold of reps is met. So

So, on press:

Session 1: 60x5,5,5
Next session: 60x6,5,5
Next session: 60x6,6,5
Etc, until maybe
60x7,7,7

Maybe: 62.5x5,5,5

Repeat pattern

Then jump in load.

^ once he’s tanner 5 definitely switch to standard lp

[DoctorWho]

^ Who, are you familiar with “ladder” programming?

I kinda like the idea for young kids. Basically you’d hold the weight constant and jump only once a threshold of reps is met. So

So, on press:

Session 1: 60x5,5,5
Next session: 60x6,5,5
Next session: 60x6,6,5
Etc, until maybe
60x7,7,7

Maybe: 62.5x5,5,5

Repeat pattern

Then jump in load.

^ once he’s tanner 5 definitely switch to standard lp

I like the idea a lot. From the suggested reps, am I right that you are thinking the extra work is good for him?

[cwd]

I use ladder progression for my chins/pullups, but add reps to the *later* sets. I.e.

session 1: 5,5,5
session 2: 5,5,6
session 3: 5,6,6
etc

This avoids the discouraging thing where I go too hard on the first set, then regress on later sets due to fatigue. I really hate when that happens.

[Hamburgerfan]

I'd start him off with some kind of weekly progress. Look to Strongest Shall Survive for a starting point.

[mgil]

He can handle recovery far better than LP needs. The ladder should work well.

Don’t let him grind. Keep him at RPE 9 or lower

[JonA]

I think pushups, chinups, pullups, planks, and unloaded jump squats are really underrated for that age group.

[mgil]

I think pushups, chinups, pullups, planks, and unloaded jump squats are really underrated for that age group.

True, a lot of kids get pretty athletic on calisthenics alone.

[DoctorWho]

He gets lots of calisthenics in a strenuous way through wrestling, and wrestling itself is a rigorous strength and conditioning workout. Calisthenics and intense wrestling practices alone were not cutting it.

[mgil]

He gets lots of calisthenics in a strenuous way through wrestling, and wrestling itself is a rigorous strength and conditioning workout. Calisthenics and intense wrestling practices alone were not cutting it.

Have you tried hard labor and food? I did lots of yard work, brush clearing, etc. (#strenuouslife) along with a lot of bike riding when young. That apparently left me well strong enough for high school wrestling to a point.

So here's the question I forgot to ask: What's the weight class you're aiming for? Staying at 103 is going to be counterproductive at some point.

[JonA]

He gets lots of calisthenics in a strenuous way through wrestling, and wrestling itself is a rigorous strength and conditioning workout. Calisthenics and intense wrestling practices alone were not cutting it.

How is it "not cutting" it? Is he not getting stronger?

[DoctorWho]

He's an Ok athlete, and he's trying to catch the best. He made it to the quarter finals of PA states and placed in the top 12, and he placed at the Ohio Tournament of Champions, etc. But the physicality of guys ahead of him is plain to see, and so getting stronger is part of the plan. We fired his old coach because that jerkoff (me) was not getting it done.

[DoctorWho]

Got a lesson in patience. The boy is significantly stronger and better than last year, and has been drilling and learning a lot of technique, but wrestled live in practice (even though he's had a dozen tournament matches) for the first time this year with guys at his club practice. "Dad, Sigmund is still a lot stronger than me."