Average 2 Savage 2

[scotty]

Hi there,

First post from a long time lurker. Just wondering if anyone has run this program? I love the idea of it and I’ve just started the vanilla version (so not reps to failure or last set RIR) but the volume is crushing me.

Those who have run it, did you ramp up the volume slowly and how long did it take you to acclimatise? Also, has anyone followed Greg’s recommendations and upped the targeted number of sets to 10?

Thanks!

[DPriest442]

Hi there,

First post from a long time lurker. Just wondering if anyone has run this program? I love the idea of it and I’ve just started the vanilla version (so not reps to failure or last set RIR) but the volume is crushing me.

Those who have run it, did you ramp up the volume slowly and how long did it take you to acclimatise? Also, has anyone followed Greg’s recommendations and upped the targeted number of sets to 10?

Thanks!

The program is autoregulated. If the volume fucks you up then the weight will autoregulate down to something more manageable

[scotty]

Hi there,

First post from a long time lurker. Just wondering if anyone has run this program? I love the idea of it and I’ve just started the vanilla version (so not reps to failure or last set RIR) but the volume is crushing me.

Those who have run it, did you ramp up the volume slowly and how long did it take you to acclimatise? Also, has anyone followed Greg’s recommendations and upped the targeted number of sets to 10?

Thanks!

The program is autoregulated. If the volume fucks you up then the weight will autoregulate down to something more manageable

True, but I’m not sure there’s any weight right now at which 8-10 set of 7 deadlifts or squats wouldn’t fuck me up.

Keen to hear your general experience with the program as well if you’ve done it. For $5, I think it’s an an absolute bargain, very different to how I’ve trained in the past though.

[DPriest442]

Hi there,

First post from a long time lurker. Just wondering if anyone has run this program? I love the idea of it and I’ve just started the vanilla version (so not reps to failure or last set RIR) but the volume is crushing me.

Those who have run it, did you ramp up the volume slowly and how long did it take you to acclimatise? Also, has anyone followed Greg’s recommendations and upped the targeted number of sets to 10?

Thanks!

The program is autoregulated. If the volume fucks you up then the weight will autoregulate down to something more manageable

True, but I’m not sure there’s any weight right now at which 8-10 set of 7 deadlifts or squats wouldn’t fuck me up.

Keen to hear your general experience with the program as well if you’ve done it. For $5, I think it’s an an absolute bargain, very different to how I’ve trained in the past though.

I mean, do you think you could do 10 sets of deadlifts or squats with an empty bar? If you can, then theres a weight that will work. I never ran the base ATS so I can't comment on that but I do know that as long as you're honest with RIR in then eventually it will autoregulate to something that will work

[TheGloriousW]

Hi there,

First post from a long time lurker. Just wondering if anyone has run this program? I love the idea of it and I’ve just started the vanilla version (so not reps to failure or last set RIR) but the volume is crushing me.

Those who have run it, did you ramp up the volume slowly and how long did it take you to acclimatise? Also, has anyone followed Greg’s recommendations and upped the targeted number of sets to 10?

Thanks!

The program is autoregulated. If the volume fucks you up then the weight will autoregulate down to something more manageable

True, but I’m not sure there’s any weight right now at which 8-10 set of 7 deadlifts or squats wouldn’t fuck me up.

Keen to hear your general experience with the program as well if you’ve done it. For $5, I think it’s an an absolute bargain, very different to how I’ve trained in the past though.

I am in week 13. No I did not up the target. I have run it as written. Some weeks I have gone into the 8 - 9 set range. My RIR is accurate because I test it frequently. I felt fatigued, but that was close to the first rest week. After that, no. I cannot wait to restart because the first volume weeks really packed it on.

[scotty]

I am in week 13. No I did not up the target. I have run it as written. Some weeks I have gone into the 8 - 9 set range. My RIR is accurate because I test it frequently. I felt fatigued, but that was close to the first rest week. After that, no. I cannot wait to restart because the first volume weeks really packed it on.

Nice, have you tested maxes along the way? Seen much improvement?

Are you planning to do the general strength block and the peaking block, or will you just loop the first 14 weeks?

[James]

I ran the normal AtS2 for 9 weeks and switched to the higher rep version when he released it and am on week three now.

I capped the sets to seven for vanilla even though the first couple weeks were easy. Also Greg has said that it's okay and even preferable to let your rest times to get a little long if you have the time especially for the hypertrophy version.

I was using BBM's templates before this so the volume isn't a problem.

[TheGloriousW]

Nice, have you tested maxes along the way? Seen much improvement?

Are you planning to do the general strength block and the peaking block, or will you just loop the first 14 weeks?

No I haven't tested maxes along the way. That would inherently screw up the programming. My e1RM does regulate up from time to time. I also have come to realization that I don't care to max. Jacked or claim that I can SQ/DL/B xxx, I'll take getting as jacked an lean as I can be. Either way when you get bigger you get stronger.

I am at the end of the general strength block. I will not peak and instead run the hypertrophy version of the program.

[JohnHelton]

@DoubleBreastedAmazon @OckhamsRazor @GlasgowJock have all spent some time with AtS 2.0.

[PlutonB]

I've recently done 21 weeks of the RIR-version (and after that 6 weeks of hypertrophy template). I'll just paste my comments from the PR thread because lazy. TLDR: great program, run it, maybe skip last weeks.

21 weeks of Average to Savage 2 resulted in mixed success.

DL PR 200kg (up from 197,5). Did 194x1x5 with ease week 17, so a bit of a letdown in the end. I actually think I was the strongest that week and the rest of the high intensity weeks just wore me down rather than develop anything, especially the lower back.

Press PR 82,5kg (up from 80 kg). Decent.

Squat PR 175kg (up from 162,5 kg). Really satisfied! Just 5 kg left to 2020 goal.

Bench TNG 125kg (PR from about a year ago 127,5). I can't get it to budge. Caveat though, the 127,5 was with definitive buttlift and this lift was pretty strict, so I probably should count 125 as my real PR.

Overall, great fun with the program but will cut it short on week 17 or even 14 if I run it again.

I did the Reps in reserve version 3x per week. Next time I would probably do the RtF at least the first and probably second part of the program (week 1-7 and 8-13) and dial down on the accessories instead. Maybe even mix and do sets to RIR on main lift and RtF on supplementary.

[perman]

Hi there,

First post from a long time lurker. Just wondering if anyone has run this program? I love the idea of it and I’ve just started the vanilla version (so not reps to failure or last set RIR) but the volume is crushing me.

Those who have run it, did you ramp up the volume slowly and how long did it take you to acclimatise? Also, has anyone followed Greg’s recommendations and upped the targeted number of sets to 10?

Thanks!

The program is autoregulated. If the volume fucks you up then the weight will autoregulate down to something more manageable

True, but I’m not sure there’s any weight right now at which 8-10 set of 7 deadlifts or squats wouldn’t fuck me up.

Keen to hear your general experience with the program as well if you’ve done it. For $5, I think it’s an an absolute bargain, very different to how I’ve trained in the past though.

I mean, do you think you could do 10 sets of deadlifts or squats with an empty bar? If you can, then theres a weight that will work. I never ran the base ATS so I can't comment on that but I do know that as long as you're honest with RIR in then eventually it will autoregulate to something that will work

The spreadsheets are based on percentages of max and have settings that allow you to set minimal and maximal amount of sets for every exercise. I remember in the instruction PDF that Nuckols recommended 8 sets on average ideally if possible, but the default setting is 4-6 sets. Meaning it's seen as normal to not get more sets than 6. I don't interpret his instructions as intending people to lower the percentages a lot just to get more sets. He encourages lifting explosively, and you probably limit maximal force when you start going below 65-60% if such a reduction is necessary to do that many sets.

Given that he both has a last set RIR and a failure template, I don't think Greg expects people to normally do like 8-10 sets of squats or deadlifts. When I've done Hanley's protocols, 8 sets of 5 @70% fatigues me incredibly and I find 6 or 7 sets to be a reasonable maximum amount of sets for me (although my squat gains have been lackluster the last years, so maybe I'm just being a pussy). The templates are meant to be adjustable.

If I were the OP, I would simply cap sets of squats or deadlifts. Maybe even run the RIR-version for lower body lifts, and run normal AtS for upper body lifts. Even if you are used to programming with volume, it's natural that there are individual variations in volume tolerance, both generally and specifically for exercises. I think it's unreasonable to have 8-10 sets of squats or deadlifts as a norm for most people. Greg seems to encourage individualization, tinkering, and seems to be sending the signal that micromanaging this stuff probably doesn't matter that much IMO. Thus why he provides so much opportunity for tinkering in these spreadsheets.

[James]

Greg also just put out a "program builder" spreadsheet where you can mix and match frequency, volume, RIR/RtF, intensity, movements and everything else to customize it exactly how you want.

[GlasgowJock]

I run 9 session blocks (6 squat, 3 deadlift) followed by two deload sessions every 72 hours. I typically cap at 7 sets though I'm pretty good at weight selection so that the last set is 2-3 RIR. Haven't found volume to be an issue though I've ran Hanley's stuff for a long time prior. I'm only doing the strength and peaking ranges as I get sufficient accessory work taking leg extensions and curls close to failure, plus tempo RDL is my supplementary pull. I throw in the occasional @8 single to gauge progress.

Not ran it properly for bench due to shoulder pissiness.

I'm really pleased with my squat and dead lift progress, though in all fairness it's just a slight variation of my typical fondness towards DUP programmes with RPE/ RIR caps. Perhaps training in the 2-4 rep range has been more favourable towards pushing my 1rms up.

[scotty]

Thanks all for the responses. I like the idea of doing the vanilla program for the upper body and RIR to cap the lower body stuff. Just saw the new program builder spreadsheet, looks amazing!

[TheGloriousW]

Thanks all for the responses. I like the idea of doing the vanilla program for the upper body and RIR to cap the lower body stuff. Just saw the new program builder spreadsheet, looks amazing!

You may want to try it before you start tinkering. You might be amazed at what you can do. The whole program is laid out so so don't bury yourself with fatigue. If you are getting 8 or more sets on a lift, you started with a light e1RM. It will work itself out over time. He doesn't ask you to put 90+ % on the bar day after day.

Like I said, I'm in week 13. I did my main squat (high bar) yesterday and got 6 sets. Did the auxiliary today, again high bar, and got 6 sets. I'll be OK for pause squats in a few days. The first block prepped me really well. I never ever thought I could squat two days in a row. No way, no how, dumb idea. Well, it turns out, I can.

This program has me looking forward to the next session. A straight SSLP program had me fearing it.

[Culican]

I started on the RIR version 6 weeks ago and am on the 7th (a deload) week right now. So far, I really like it.

I had bought into the SS always grind mindset and wasn't going anywhere. This is a very welcome change.

[DPriest442]

I've recently done 21 weeks of the RIR-version (and after that 6 weeks of hypertrophy template). I'll just paste my comments from the PR thread because lazy. TLDR: great program, run it, maybe skip last weeks.

21 weeks of Average to Savage 2 resulted in mixed success.

DL PR 200kg (up from 197,5). Did 194x1x5 with ease week 17, so a bit of a letdown in the end. I actually think I was the strongest that week and the rest of the high intensity weeks just wore me down rather than develop anything, especially the lower back.

Press PR 82,5kg (up from 80 kg). Decent.

Squat PR 175kg (up from 162,5 kg). Really satisfied! Just 5 kg left to 2020 goal.

Bench TNG 125kg (PR from about a year ago 127,5). I can't get it to budge. Caveat though, the 127,5 was with definitive buttlift and this lift was pretty strict, so I probably should count 125 as my real PR.

Overall, great fun with the program but will cut it short on week 17 or even 14 if I run it again.

I did the Reps in reserve version 3x per week. Next time I would probably do the RtF at least the first and probably second part of the program (week 1-7 and 8-13) and dial down on the accessories instead. Maybe even mix and do sets to RIR on main lift and RtF on supplementary.

21 weeks for 2.5kg on the deadlift? damn that's rough

[PlutonB]

21 weeks for 2.5kg on the deadlift? damn that's rough

Haha, yeah it wasn't what I expected after how it felt throughout the program. But I view it as a fucked up peak. Week 17 I did five singles at 194 that I've recorded as RPE 8-9. Felt like I could have pulled at least 210 at the time. Arriving on week 21 my lower back clearly limited me. For someone else the last weeks might be beneficial but they they probably wasn't for me when it comes to the DL setup. Lesson learned.

[DoubleBreastedAmazon]

Late to the game here, but I am on Week 12 of the program - doing the 4 day variation. I am having decent success with it for my bench and OHP. Moderate for DL and I can't quite tell what is going on with my squat. I prob started with my estimated maxes too low on some of the lifts, so I am not sure how much that impacted things. I have also recently decided to train a higher intensity (by RIR) than prescribed. Since I am a woman and not an especially strong one at that I figured the total systemic damage of the loads is not enough for me to incur too much fatigue accumulation, but time will tell since it has only been about 2 weeks of overshooting the prescribed RIRs.

[JohnHelton]

Since I am a woman and not an especially strong one at that

The second part of this statement isn't true. I would say you are pretty damn strong.