Hypertrophy re-hash

[SeanHerbison]

I think I'm a bit behind there. I've seen the question mark thing mentioned a few times, but I don't get what it's referring to, if anything.

[Manveer]

Don't you have an IPF record (technically, shut up) or something like that? What's the story there?

USAPL open state squat record in KY

[SeanHerbison]

USAPL open state squat record in KY

Thanks.

Also, huh, you got me looking up state records, and if no one breaks them in the meantime, I'll probably grab the AZ 120kg class deadlift and total records when i move there.

[Mahendra]

Edit: but also, also: I dream of a future world when the default programming client isn’t a motherfucking pretend powerlifter.

What does programming look like in this world?

[Hanley]

Edit: but also, also: I dream of a future world when the default programming client isn’t a motherfucking pretend powerlifter.

What does programming look like in this world?

It looks like thousands upon thousands of athletes using my programming software.

[Manveer]

It looks like thousands upon thousands of athletes using my programming software.

There are fields...endless fields, where athletes are no longer coached. We are programmed using John Hanley's software. For longest time, I wouldn't believe it...and then I saw the fields with my own eyes.

[Allentown]

And all the presses shall be completed within 15 minutes...

[OCG]

What about density blocks huh?

I don't disagree, when I look at something like the Juggernaut Program that has 60-65% for months on end I just wonder, why? Throwing in a few singles even at 80-85% would help a lot with maintaining strength and technique and cost very little in terms of recovery. I feel like this whole complete segregation of "hypertrophy" and "strength" blocks is silly, and misunderstanding the point. You minimise training for other aspects, you don't just stop it wholly.

My interpretation is that advanced athletes must apply such significant stressors to disrupt homeostasis that you intentionally allow some detraining of deprioritized attributes because all the resources are required to provide a significant stressor to the chosen attribute.

Whether this is valid is a different question. It seems to me that the subtleties of what degree of concurrency is optimal is so far down on the list of priorities (per scientific principles of strength training, phase potentiation is the last of the 6 priorities), that discerning how well the concurrency of an indivudal's program is working over the noise of the contributions of the other more important factors is pretty damn hard.

Ah, but again, if you look at the Juggernaut program it's nothing but hypertrophy training. Only 60-70% for high reps, for 3 months or so. I'm not saying there shouldn't be a focus on certain aspects, but that doesn't mean you drop everything else entirely. And while yes, recovery is important, like 1-3 singles at 80-85% in the squat/bench/dead spread out over the week just isn't that much to recover from.

I'm saying, if say you were a sprinter, or took part in some other actual sport, just because you're putting a focus on lifting in the off season, doesn't mean you stop running entirely and let all your technique go to shit.

[Allentown]

I think the argument that beyond novice NME most improvements are driven by muscular hypertrophy seems to have merit. Weekly singles might be a bit unnecessary, but monthly seems like it should be fine?
Coincidentally, and this is the third time I've mentioned this in the past 5 days, I should probably look seriously at the percentages/RPE I am working at, because they are probably too high.
60s does seem a little low, though. How useful would benching reps at 155 be, when I am still getting >40 reps a session at >190, with a second ladder session of ~30 reps >185 up to a 1RM?

[perman]

Ah, but again, if you look at the Juggernaut program it's nothing but hypertrophy training. Only 60-70% for high reps, for 3 months or so. I'm not saying there shouldn't be a focus on certain aspects, but that doesn't mean you drop everything else entirely. And while yes, recovery is important, like 1-3 singles at 80-85% in the squat/bench/dead spread out over the week just isn't that much to recover from.

I don't think it's the singles themselves, but rather training economy. If you can squeeze in 1-2 more volume sets where otherwise you'd be warming up to the singles, that's saved time. Then again, it's probably only like 10-15 minutes extra.

Whether to include that 1@8 single in hypertrophy blocks is probably not a very significant programming decision. I'm personally running Jordan's hypertrophy block (or rather my modification of my extrapolation of it based on the log of someone who ran it as it costs money) right now, and squatting twice a week (belted 6s and unbelted 8s) while the last session is leg press, and benching 3 times a week (cgbp 6s, comp bench 5s, tng 8s).

Chosen to add a 1@8 before comp bench 5s, but not for squats just cause I bench more often anyway. Jordan does not seem to have any 1@8 in his hypertrophy block though, and only perscribes in the 6-12 range. 1@8, 5x5@8 is my modification...

[Hanley]

Whether to include that 1@8 single in hypertrophy blocks is probably not a very significant programming decision.

What if you're a nationally ranked pole-vaulter (whose "in-season" includes Winter, Spring and Summer)? Or any athlete executing high-skill ballistic motor programs?

I'm confident extended hypertrophy blocks fuck recruitment patterns of high-threshold MUs (and therefore force production) in ballistic motor programs.

[SeanHerbison]

It looks like thousands upon thousands of athletes using my programming software.

So mid-2018 release date?

[perman]

Whether to include that 1@8 single in hypertrophy blocks is probably not a very significant programming decision.

What if you're a nationally ranked pole-vaulter (whose "in-season" includes Winter, Spring and Summer)? Or any athlete executing high-skill ballistic motor programs?

I'm confident extended hypertrophy blocks fuck recruitment patterns of high-threshold MUs (and therefore force production) in ballistic motor programs.

Well, high-skill ballistic motor programs are specific, meaning your example athletes care about being explosive in their example movements. Do you think the transference from squats to let's say long-jump depends a lot on squat 1RM readiness? Not that I know shit about this, but I'd reckon general squatting strength matters more here, not whether you can currently do +- couple % more for squats 1@8. Which is neither here nor there for the viability of long-term hypertrophy blocks for your athletes.

I'm just talking out of my ass here though, I'm not even a coach, and the only client (myself) that I've coached is not close to such explosive athletes.

[Wilhelm]

Just my rookie thoughts on this.

In Scientific Principals of Strength Training, they even mention the lag you can expect in handling higher weights when you transition from a hypertrophy block to a strength block.

I saw Greg Nuckols on a podcast talking about doing heavier singles before worksets.
I'm not exactly sure that was in regard to a hypertrophy block specifically.
I think it was a tangent to talking about that idea of walking out super maximal loads. It has a name, i don't recall.
Supposedly priming you in some way.
He didn't seem convinced about that, but i came away thinking he still favored the idea of doing heavier singles during a hypertrophy block.

Maybe that's just what i wanted to hear, but i went ahead and worked up to a single at my prior top workset weight once a week while doing my one foray into a volume block.

I wasn't in love with the idea of "losing touch" with handling relatively heavier weights.

[cwd]

I used to go 3 weeks between PR attempts on my program, doing mostly 5s and 8s. Then when it was time to set a new 3RM, it was scary.

Now I repeat my recent 3RM as an overwarmup single on every volume day. The number doesn't seem scary anymore.

Maybe there's a training effect too, but for me the mental aspect is really important.

[Hanley]

Do you think the transference from squats to let's say long-jump depends a lot on squat 1RM readiness?

I think the recruitment patterns of high-threshold motor units in “hypertrophy work” will fuck (negative transfer) high-threshold MU recruitment in ballistic motor programs.

It’s really, really, really hard to refine ballistic motor programs. Easy to corrupt them.

So fucking easy...[gazes sadly into an imagined life of athletic accomplishment]

[Murelli]

Do you think the transference from squats to let's say long-jump depends a lot on squat 1RM readiness?

I think the recruitment patterns of high-threshold motor units in “hypertrophy work” will fuck (negative transfer) high-threshold MU recruitment in ballistic motor programs.

It’s really, really, really hard to refine ballistic motor programs. Easy to corrupt them.

So fucking easy...[gazes sadly into an imagined life of athletic accomplishment]

Does that mean you screwed your chance at being the next Javellin Olympic Champion for #swole?

I agree with you on this, even if you don't practice the exact skill (movement pattern) of your ballistic sport movement, you must keep your neuromuscular system "primed" for it. Something about muscular endurance competing with explosiveness, adaptation of fiber types and subtypes, and your brain trying to optimize his own programming for the tasks that need to be performed right now.

[Hanley]

Does that mean you screwed your chance at being the next Javellin Olympic Champion for #swole?

Not swole. I was a skinny, useless, drunk turd who squandered a pretty great gift.

I agree with you on this, even if you don't practice the exact skill (movement pattern) of your ballistic sport movement, you must keep your neuromuscular system "primed" for it. Something about muscular endurance competing with explosiveness, adaptation of fiber types and subtypes, and your brain trying to optimize his own programming for the tasks that need to be performed right now.

Yeah.

[perman]

Do you think the transference from squats to let's say long-jump depends a lot on squat 1RM readiness?

I think the recruitment patterns of high-threshold motor units in “hypertrophy work” will fuck (negative transfer) high-threshold MU recruitment in ballistic motor programs.

It’s really, really, really hard to refine ballistic motor programs. Easy to corrupt them.

So fucking easy...[gazes sadly into an imagined life of athletic accomplishment]

Cheer up, Olympic athletes get even less recognition than powerlifters (who get youtube lifting fame) unless they get medals. Could you have gotten medals at the Olympics?

[Hanley]

Could you have gotten medals at the Olympics?

Nope.

And I'm reminded of a quote from Joseph Heller's Catch-22:

“Like Olympic medals and tennis trophies, all they signified was that the owner had done something of no benefit to anyone more capably than everyone else.”