Renascent wrote: ↑Sun Apr 18, 2021 11:50 am
@Testiclaw
What do pullovers accomplish when trying to improve thoracic extension?
I use them as a weighted stretch, and eventually add a small foam roller under the middle-back.
I don't think unweighted stretches are that useful, but a loaded movement that we can progressively load while also progressively increase range of motion and stretching can be useful when coupled with learning how to overhead squat.
Thanks!
I'd begun to consider it like a cousin to front raises, straight-arm pulldowns, and the ab wheel. My training purposes are/were different, so I never considered it as a thoracic extension stretch.
DCR wrote: ↑Sun Apr 18, 2021 1:52 pm
Pullovers are to the 20 rep squat program as power cleans are to the SSNLP.
How do you mean? I bought the brown book (second-hand) for the overhead press and power clean chapters, but never got well acquainted with SS programming. I also decided not to train the power clean, though I don't recall the reason why.
thoradicus wrote: ↑Sat Apr 17, 2021 8:05 pmWhile we are on the topic of fatigue resistance...how would reps/set be programmed when I could do I think 20 reps @ 70% for the squat and bench?
Assuming max recoverable volume is 40 reps, i am supposed to do 13-15x3 or something? Sorry if I am butchering this.
20RM @ 70% is pretty outlier. I don't think I'd use 70% all that much. Nothing wrong with sets of 12-15...but they're really far from a strength stimulus (and I tend to make barbell "hypertrophy" a hypertrophy/strength hybrid sorta thing).
I'd probably use 15RM as the your "intensity floor" for barbell work (I have no idea what percentage of your 1RM that is). And I'd probably do 3-6ish sets (depending on your intersession recovery ability) of variable reps in the RPE 6-8 zone.
DCR wrote: ↑Sun Apr 18, 2021 1:52 pm
Pullovers are to the 20 rep squat program as power cleans are to the SSNLP.
How do you mean? I bought the brown book (second-hand) for the overhead press and power clean chapters, but never got well acquainted with SS programming. I also decided not to train the power clean, though I don't recall the reason why.
In that the purveyors of said programs absolutely insist on their inclusion, but the explanations for why never made much sense.
ETA: I’ve got no beef with pullovers. Was just something that occurred to me.
DCR wrote: ↑Sun Apr 18, 2021 1:52 pm
Pullovers are to the 20 rep squat program as power cleans are to the SSNLP.
How do you mean? I bought the brown book (second-hand) for the overhead press and power clean chapters, but never got well acquainted with SS programming. I also decided not to train the power clean, though I don't recall the reason why.
In that the purveyors of said programs absolutely insist on their inclusion, but the explanations for why never made much sense.
ETA: I’ve got no beef with pullovers. Was just something that occurred to me.
Gotcha.
I'm accustomed to seeing pullovers programmed as a "vanity" movement, but I saw something on 'Claw's IG that made me ask the question.
Whenever I have time to do them, I do them for reasons unrelated to vanity. So I was surprised to finally see someone actually program them for a movement-related purpose.
ChasingCurls69 wrote: ↑Sun Apr 18, 2021 4:28 pm
Usung pullovers as a thoracic stretch because it's a loaded movement is pretty fucking cool.
Yep.
I've used plate raises sporadically to relieve some anterior discomfort before (without knowing why, beyond instinct), but never thought about the effect of that movement (or similar movements -- like pullovers) on the posterior side.
Renascent wrote: ↑Sun Apr 18, 2021 4:25 pmSo I was surprised to finally see someone actually program them for a movement-related purpose.
I love them. They were my primary upper body movement back when I threw javelin. Great for overhead strength. They're also great for trunk-stability/anti-hyper-extension.
thoradicus wrote: ↑Sat Apr 17, 2021 8:05 pmWhile we are on the topic of fatigue resistance...how would reps/set be programmed when I could do I think 20 reps @ 70% for the squat and bench?
Assuming max recoverable volume is 40 reps, i am supposed to do 13-15x3 or something? Sorry if I am butchering this.
20RM @ 70% is pretty outlier. I don't think I'd use 70% all that much. Nothing wrong with sets of 12-15...but they're really far from a strength stimulus (and I tend to make barbell "hypertrophy" a hypertrophy/strength hybrid sorta thing).
I'd probably use 15RM as the your "intensity floor" for barbell work (I have no idea what percentage of your 1RM that is). And I'd probably do 3-6ish sets (depending on your intersession recovery ability) of variable reps in the RPE 6-8 zone.
Thanks! Is there any intensity ceiling though? Anything above 80% will just be singles @ 6-8?
The 3-6 variable sets is for the whole range of %s and not just 15RM, right?
I think the "ribcage expansion" and "Arnold pec development" qualities of pullovers variations are all bullshit, but paired with a roller under the back they can be useful for overhead positions.
I like to pair them with seated snatch grip BTN presses, focusing on leaning forward, keeping heavy feet, and really emphasizing upper back activity and internal rotation.
Testiclaw wrote: ↑Sun Apr 18, 2021 6:02 pm
I think the "ribcage expansion" and "Arnold pec development" qualities of pullovers variations are all bullshit, but paired with a roller under the back they can be useful for overhead positions.
I like to pair them with seated snatch grip BTN presses, focusing on leaning forward, keeping heavy feet, and really emphasizing upper back activity and internal rotation.
How do you have people perform the pullovers? The closest I've done is the SS-style lying tricep extensions with either DBs or an EZ curl bar.
thoradicus wrote: ↑Sun Apr 18, 2021 5:43 pmThanks! Is there any intensity ceiling though?
No. Just be smart about keeping fatigue in check.
thoradicus wrote: ↑Sun Apr 18, 2021 5:43 pmAnything above 80% will just be singles @ 6-8?
Eh. You're an outlier. I don't feel comfortable giving general advice to you. Post an amrap with 80% of one of your lifts and I'll have a better sense of what reps per set I'd use.
thoradicus wrote: ↑Sun Apr 18, 2021 5:43 pm
The 3-6 variable sets is for the whole range of %s and not just 15RM, right?
I'd probably increase # of sets as intensity increases. So, maybe 7-8 triples @ 7-8RM, 7-8 doubles @ 5RM etc. I'm pulling those set counts out of my ass....but hopefully you get the idea (more sets, lower average set RPE as intensity gets higher).
Testiclaw wrote: ↑Sun Apr 18, 2021 6:02 pm
I think the "ribcage expansion" and "Arnold pec development" qualities of pullovers variations are all bullshit, but paired with a roller under the back they can be useful for overhead positions.
I like to pair them with seated snatch grip BTN presses, focusing on leaning forward, keeping heavy feet, and really emphasizing upper back activity and internal rotation.
How do you have people perform the pullovers? The closest I've done is the SS-style lying tricep extensions with either DBs or an EZ curl bar.
Arms stay straight, locked.
Feet on bench, abs tight, trying to keep the lower back rounded a bit.
Lower as far as able, get a few deep breaths, return to starting position.
Renascent wrote: ↑Sun Apr 18, 2021 4:25 pmSo I was surprised to finally see someone actually program them for a movement-related purpose.
I love them. They were my primary upper body movement back when I threw javelin. Great for overhead strength. They're also great for trunk-stability/anti-hyper-extension.
Overhead strength just for throwing? Or do you feel like they did/would help with pressing as well?
Renascent wrote: ↑Sun Apr 18, 2021 4:25 pmSo I was surprised to finally see someone actually program them for a movement-related purpose.
I love them. They were my primary upper body movement back when I threw javelin. Great for overhead strength. They're also great for trunk-stability/anti-hyper-extension.
Renascent wrote: ↑Sun Apr 18, 2021 4:25 pmSo I was surprised to finally see someone actually program them for a movement-related purpose.
I love them. They were my primary upper body movement back when I threw javelin. Great for overhead strength. They're also great for trunk-stability/anti-hyper-extension.
Did you use weight percentages for programming?
No. Probably should have. My college S&C training was...less than ideal.
The elite guys track/test pullover 1RM. But they do a crazy ballistic version ( @Testiclaw, avert your eyes):
Renascent wrote: ↑Sun Apr 18, 2021 4:25 pmSo I was surprised to finally see someone actually program them for a movement-related purpose.
I love them. They were my primary upper body movement back when I threw javelin. Great for overhead strength. They're also great for trunk-stability/anti-hyper-extension.
Did you use weight percentages for programming?
No. Probably should have. My college S&C training was...less than ideal.
The elite guys track/test pullover 1RM. But they do a crazy ballistic version ( @Testiclaw, avert your eyes):
JFC.
Even though you said you used it as a primary movement, that was not what I pictured.
Feet on bench, abs tight, trying to keep the lower back rounded a bit.
Lower as far as able, get a few deep breaths, return to starting position.
I have a half-roller I wanna try this setup with (my full-size roller is too big, and I haven't used it in years, so I'm not inclined to buy another).
Just curious: why not feet on the floor?
So feet on the bench makes it easier to keep the pelvis tucked and lower back rounded, so we can focus more of the extension in the thoracic area (rather than compensate with an arch).
