Lifting belt service,life?

[Oldandfat]

Pioneer is lifetime warranty too. I chose not to use it because round trip shipping to Canada is almost as much as a new belt.

I didn't mention this because I didn't want to complicate the story but the first belt I got had a manufacturing defect, the leather was shaved very thin on one edge where the outside layer loops around the buckle and is riveted. It was actually still usable but I didn't like the idea of paying for something that had such a visible defect. I took a picture and emailed it to Elite FTS and they immediately sent me out a replacement (again shipped not from their location but from Texas, where Pioneer is). Elite FTS said they would send me a shipping label to return it but they never did. I emailed them again asking for a return label and they never answered so I gave the belt to a friend.

Point is you may not have to pay to ship it back if something happens. Once they saw a picture of the defect there was no reason for them to have it returned and have to deal with something they couldn't resell.

I emailed pioneer. They told me to mail the belt back to them and they would repair/replace. I was also told I was responsible for shipping back to Canada.

They didn’t ask for pictures.

I’m ok with it because now that levers are adjustable, that’s what I’d like to do. Just waiting for PAL2

[Wilhelm]

Well, now i notice something on my Pioneer 13mm lever.
The layers at the tapered end have some slipping going on.
And to be fair, this could be more common than people notice, and so far, there is no issue with the stitches.
Have had the belt since summer 2019.

[Oldandfat]

That’s exactly what mine did. Started out “slipping” at the edge. Then the stitching gave out. Then the slipping went end to end.

I,figured it was due to the taper being bent onto the loop. I guess levers aren’t immune.

I wonder if putting some Chicago screws along the stitching, or a few inches behind the pal would help?

My belt only loosens near the end, as yours is also.

Chicago,screws or rivets or so,e thing else?

[Wilhelm]

Well, i'm not greatly worried about this now.
I don't think the stitching is going to come into play, but if it does, i contacted Rogue and got the order number, and Pioneer has a lifetime warranty.
I'd just get it fixed (probably just replaced i'd guess) if it comes to that.

I have my Titan single prong to fall back on if needs be.

[squatdoyle]

Thanks for posting, guys. This is interesting to see and something I didn't know was possible. I'm planning to buy a Pioneer PAL stock belt when the v2 PAL comes out this spring. I was set on getting the 13mm for more support (right now i have a 10mm double suede Pioneer cut). But, after seeing this I'm not sure. Does the slip between layers affect support/stiffness? Would I be better off getting the 10mm untreated belthttps://generalleathercraft.com/product ... ever-belt/ as that is one piece and guaranteed not to fail?

[Wilhelm]

Does the slip between layers affect support/stiffness?

To be clear, i'm only getting this happening on that one end where i have been picking it up all this time. (as in the vid i made)
I've started picking it from the bottom edge and not putting that torsion into it.
The belt is fully functional, and the stitching in that area has not loosened.
I'm hoping it will never be a problem that necessitates me returing the belt to Rogue.
It's clear by the imprints that i changed the lever, and i suppose they could say i "altered" it, and not warranty it as per the Pioneer lifetime warranty.

None of this is to say it doesn't suck that there is an issue.
Wish now i had bought direct from Pioneer in the first place, but i was concerned with IPF approval even though i really didn't need it for my state meets at the time, and for sure not now that USAPL has left IPF.

I'm not 100% sure the 10mm is a single piece of leather anyway.
The 6.5mm belts are.

[Oldandfat]

Thanks for posting, guys. This is interesting to see and something I didn't know was possible. I'm planning to buy a Pioneer PAL stock belt when the v2 PAL comes out this spring. I was set on getting the 13mm for more support (right now i have a 10mm double suede Pioneer cut). But, after seeing this I'm not sure. Does the slip between layers affect support/stiffness? Would I be better off getting the 10mm untreated belthttps://generalleathercraft.com/product ... ever-belt/ as that is one piece and guaranteed not to fail?

I’m by no,stretch a belt expert, and you’d really have to browse the pioneer,website to fact check me…..

All the leather “strips” or whatever they’re called are 6.5mm thick. So, a single ply 6.5 is 6.5.

A 13mm belt is 2 6.5 slabs glued together.
A 10mm belt is 2 6.5 slabs cut down to 5mm and glued together.

A 10mm suede is a 6.5 slab with suede on each side.

The only belt that is a single slab of leather is a 6.5mm belt.

I almost pulled the trigger on the SBD adjustable leather and my god it’s 3 slabs glued together and then suede on the inside. Yikes. Not sure if I trust that. They do have way more stitching though.

I was thinking my issues was due to the belt loop but since Wilhelm is having the same issues, I think it’s a defect or an inherent design issue. I think his belt will eventually lose the stitching.

[Wilhelm]

I think his belt will eventually lose the stitching.

I'm not so sure of this.
Now that i'm aware and handling it differently as i pick it up and put it on, there will not be much to stress the stitching in that area.

I'll update at the end of this year, or sooner if anything changes.

[Oldandfat]

I think his belt will eventually lose the stitching.

I'm not so sure of this.
Now that i'm aware and handling it differently as i pick it up and put it on, there will not be much to stress the stitching in that area.

I'll update at the end of this year, or sooner if anything changes.

Not,trying to scare you but my belt did (and is doing) what yours is. It starts out with the “shifting”. You’re not sure if it’s actually happening or not. You’re not sure if it’s normal or not? Then the stitching comes loose as the shifting gets worse.

[Wilhelm]

Just saying i'm not certain of this outcome.

I have the option with the lever belt of stopping the torsional loading that led to this condition.

Like i said, i'll update later.

[Allentown]

I'll also add that my belts have been stored/used regularly in sub-0 temps, and 100 degree temps.
I don't have any with stitching from the Pioneer-cut era that have high levels of use, though.

[Oldandfat]

Once the pal2,is out I’ll give pioneer another go. The SBD is nice but 3 leather layers? Nope, sorry. That’s 3 layers to possibly come unglued.

Matt said,spring,for,the,pal2,so I’m hoping in about 2-3 month

[Oldandfat]

Where’s Cody? He’s the guy to ask about our belt issue.

[Allentown]

Where’s Cody? He’s the guy to ask about our belt issue.

Matt at Pioneer is the one to ask.

[Oldandfat]

Where’s Cody? He’s the guy to ask about our belt issue.

Matt at Pioneer is the one to ask.

He didnt specify anything. Just said to send it on in for repair or replacement. Wasn’t worth the shipping.

[Allentown]

Where’s Cody? He’s the guy to ask about our belt issue.

Matt at Pioneer is the one to ask.

He didnt specify anything. Just said to send it on in for repair or replacement. Wasn’t worth the shipping.

Cody doesn't work at Pioneer, though. He won't be able to answer a question about what goes on there. As to how long a belt should last: considering Pioneer will repair or replace it, they think it should last a long time. Sucks that you have to deal with "international" shipping though.

[Oldandfat]

Where’s Cody? He’s the guy to ask about our belt issue.

Matt at Pioneer is the one to ask.

He didnt specify anything. Just said to send it on in for repair or replacement. Wasn’t worth the shipping.

Cody doesn't work at Pioneer, though. He won't be able to answer a question about what goes on there. As to how long a belt should last: considering Pioneer will repair or replace it, they think it should last a long time. Sucks that you have to deal with "international" shipping though.

I,realize,Cody doesn’t work for pioneer. He’s well Versed in belts and owns more than all of us combined ever will. Lol.

Ya, 50 bucks shipping,from USA to,Canada. Just stupid.

I suppose I can always bring it with me next trip to the us and mail it within.

Then again, I really want an adjustable lever. This is a good reason/opportunity to do so

[squatdoyle]

Looks like PAL v2 will be out sometime in March https://www.instagram.com/p/CZhcO4RJW7j/. The pioneer_fit account confirms this in the comments...Can't figure out how to embed a screenshot. This issue makes me a little concerned, but it won't stop me from buying a Pioneer belt this spring.

[Oldandfat]

Looks like PAL v2 will be out sometime in March https://www.instagram.com/p/CZhcO4RJW7j/. The pioneer_fit account confirms this in the comments...Can't figure out how to embed a screenshot. This issue makes me a little concerned, but it won't stop me from buying a Pioneer belt this spring.

Sweet! Looks like I’m getting a new belt in March (stock belt if available).

At first I thought a lever would eliminate issue. Will is having the same issue (he doesn’t know it yet and I hope I’m wrong) with a lever.

Still gonna go ahead with purchase. Hoping we all got a bad batch of glue or something.

And really if I like the pal feature so much I’m ok with belt replacement every 3 years or so.

[Wilhelm]

So, revisiting this.

After handling my belt this way for two years, i did notice the layers slipping slightly on the edge just at this point where the torsion was applied over time.
I would also raise it up from this point to an even greater amount of twist each time i would put on and remove the belt over the past two years.
Stitches are not loose.


I've since simply adjusted how i handle the belt.
Problem solved, no need to anticipate warrantying the belt.