Hamstrings Always Sore

[broseph]

Does anyone else suffer from this or have a fix?

My hamstrings are almost always sore. Even when I've taken extended breaks from lifting, my hams feel like they're a couple days post-leg-day.

Besides the baseline pseudo-DOMS, they are the only muscles that get sore when I've been lifting regularly, and hams and adductors are the only things that have ever gotten sore from low bar squats. I'm currently SSB squatting to get some quad development.

Hypertrophy: I would say my hams are doing fine, especially compared to the rest of my legs.
Flexibility: I can touch my toes from standing with straight legs.
Training History: Lifting at home, I've only really done hip hinge movements for hamstrings vs knee flexion. I tried Nordic curls a few times but they just caused severe hamstring cramping.

Is this just how my particular brand of getting-older-chronic-pain-and-everything-is-tight is manifesting? Or does everyone have this and I thought I was the only one?

[FredM]

Damage was being done when I slept. Stretching my hip flexors and sleeping with a pillow under my legs or stomach (shortening hamstrings and lengthening flexors) mostly fixed it

[broseph]

Damage was being done when I slept. Stretching my hip flexors and sleeping with a pillow under my legs or stomach (shortening hamstrings and lengthening flexors) mostly fixed it

I definitely have tight hip flexors, and they flare up from time to time.

I’m not understanding your sleeping fix- are you prone or supine?

[FredM]

Damage was being done when I slept. Stretching my hip flexors and sleeping with a pillow under my legs or stomach (shortening hamstrings and lengthening flexors) mostly fixed it

I definitely have tight hip flexors, and they flare up from time to time.

I’m not understanding your sleeping fix- are you prone or supine?

Both. I usually sleep on my back in which case the pillow goes under my legs. Sometimes I feel like sleeping on my stomach so the pillow goes under my stomach. Either way I'm shortening my hamstrings because my tight hip flexors pull my pelvis back and lengthen my hamstrings all night which makes them "sore."

If I sleep without the pillow it's still better than it used to be because my hip flexors aren't as chronically tight but there's still a good chance my hamstrings will feel as "sore" as the day after I do a bunch of hamstring work. As a recent example I did 4 sets of leg curls and 4 sets of toes elevated RDLs and the next few days my hamstrings were super sore -- and by the second day the "soreness" was roughly equivalent to what was happening when I wasn't even lifting much (and no hamstring isolation work).

[broseph]

Interesting.

I’ll start doing hip flexor stretches daily and add a pillow under the knees while sleeping.

Fingers crossed.

[Renascent]

Interesting.

I’ll start doing hip flexor stretches daily and add a pillow under the knees while sleeping.

Fingers crossed.

I was hoping to see more of what others had to say about this, as I've noticed the same phenomenon over the past few months. In my case, I suspect the increased volume devoted to hamstrings via knee flexion is a possible factor, but this is a relatively new experience. Sometimes I have to be careful about extreme knee flexion for two days or so after a lower body session, or else I risk getting a cramp that scares and annoys the shit out of me. It makes falling backward gracelessly on the torlet real fun.

FredM pretty much got to the heart of the matter, though, based on past discussions, we likely disagree on how to approach the hip flexor aspect of the equation. Placing a pillow beneath the knees (or your stomach, if you're a stomach sleeper) is supposed to keep your pelvis in a more neutral position. If you're like myself (and many others) with the duck-butt syndrome, your hamstrings might feel tight because they're always taut. If your pelvis "naturally" dumps forward out of habit, then your hamstrings get stretched at the site of your sit bones. The pillow helps to reduce the stretch while you sleep.

This is part of the reason there's a proliferation of clickbait shorts from the "functional movement" personalities out there imploring people to "Stop Stretching Your Hamstrings!!!!1!1" For the record, I don't disagree with them.

Supposedly, the "tightness" sensation is (partly) the brain's way of regulating muscle tone to prevent you from injuring or tearing muscle and nerve tissue.

Part of the reason I went all in on isolated hamstring training was because of all the APT-related warnings about an increased risk of hamstring injuries if they're always "on stretch." However, like you, I've been wondering if the extended DOMS is/was age-related (I kind of think it is, though not in the context of degeneration) or something else.

[FredM]

@Renascent what do we disagree on again? I always find myself nodding in agreement when I read your posts lol.

To be clear on the "stretching:" I'm not actually a fan of traditional stretching. I think of it more as muscle relaxation/destressing or mind/muscle connection. Mind/muscle connection stretching is good pre workout and relaxation/destressing is good for a cooldown or before you go to sleep. The hip flexor stretching I do is 3x/wk before a workout and at night before I go to sleep most nights. The pre workout stretch is just actively engaging my hip flexors while kneeling and pulling myself forward until I feel a stretch. Sometimes I'll lean my body back toward my feet to get a deeper stretch but mostly it's just 3 sets of 10-15 seconds actively engaging my hipflexors and "stretching" them. At night I put a yoga block just above my butt and let one leg drop. This is generally seen as a "deep psoas stretch" online. The first time I ever tried these my foot literally wouldn't touch the ground for the first 5+ seconds and over a minute period I could feel my psoas releasing in increments like an overused rubberband. Today when I do them I pull the other leg toward my chest to get an even deeper stretch and just do 2 sets for 30s on each leg. My psoas doesn't feel like an old rubber band now and I can "feel" when I don't need to really stretch it so sometimes I'll only hold for 5 seconds because it's already released.

I use foam /ball rolling in the same way. I'll "roll" after a workout but 9/10 I only do it for about 5 seconds because nothing feels overly "hard"/tight. Once in a while one side will feel pretty hard/tight (pain with rolling) so I'll roll for 30-60s until it releases. Similar to stretching for recovery it's just about the "release" of tightness/stress that stores in my muscles -- mostly, seemingly, my hip flexors (and mostly my psoas).

[Renascent]

@Renascent what do we disagree on again? I always find myself nodding in agreement when I read your posts lol.

It may have been my own misunderstanding/misinterpretation of explanations we presented in that lower back thread. Basically minor semantics and nuance stuff.

Granted I'm still in the "experimentation" phase regarding hip flexors and how they fit into the APT deal, but stretching generally never worked for me. Right now, I lean more towards "loaded stretching," i.e., eccentric stuff. Not sure if there is any true distinction between lower ab strengthening and hip flexor strengthening.

But again, it's possible that I misinterpreted some parts of your stance.

[broseph]

Soooo.... should I be stretching my hip flexors or not? Or making them stronger?

I usually do samson stretch sans the the arms portion. The mind muscle connection is real and I can "choose" whether or not I'm stretching my adductors independent from any apparent hip/back angle.

[FredM]

Soooo.... should I be stretching my hip flexors or not? Or making them stronger?

I usually do samson stretch sans the the arms portion. The mind muscle connection is real and I can "choose" whether or not I'm stretching my adductors independent from any apparent hip/back angle.

I'd play around with various stretches until you find the one (or multiple) that work best.

The point of stretching any time other than before a workout is, imho, to release tension. So objectively evaluate hip flexor stretches on how well they're doing that. Breathing patterns are important - i.e. actively trying to engage the muscle in a further stretch on exhale.

The point of stretching for a preworkout is mind/muscle activation and inhibition. Inhibition is somewhat like tension release but subtly different.

In both cases I still call it "stretching" because I'm doing things everyone would classify as a stretch.

Some people find release more effective with pressure/foam rolling. The problem with the psoas is they're hard to reach. I still spent way too much money on a psorite and hip hook though. I didn't find them all that useful. Pressure/rolling works pretty well for me on my glutes but stretching works way better for my hip flexors. If stretching doesn't work you might try pressure from a psorite or seeing a professional (sports massage therapist).

[FredM]

Granted I'm still in the "experimentation" phase regarding hip flexors and how they fit into the APT deal, but stretching generally never worked for me. Right now, I lean more towards "loaded stretching," i.e., eccentric stuff. Not sure if there is any true distinction between lower ab strengthening and hip flexor strengthening.

But again, it's possible that I misinterpreted some parts of your stance.

In fairness my stance changes slightly as time goes on and I figure more things out. I think, like most things, the "right answer" is up to the individual. Most problems come down to strength within the context of a given position -- which means most problems are solved with mobility and strengthening. How you do that and what gives you best results seems to vary. I agree with your perspective when it comes to hamstrings 100%. "Loaded stretching" didn't help and possibly hurt with my hip flexors. But stuff like paused good mornings and RDLs have done way more for my "hamstring mobility" than stretching or rolling and have helped with further back discomfort issues as a result.

Like I said, generally I think stretching is probably trying to accomplish one of two things: tension release or inhibition. There are other modalities that might accomplish those goals as well or better.

[Brackish]

I was just complaining about this to my training partner. Ever since I added in leg curls, mine are always sore. Like an idiot, I kept pushing on with them for most of the summer and saw some decent growth, but I was constantly in pain. I also have a feeling its what ended up screwing up my back which destroyed my deadlift and squats. Anyways, I've finally decided to drop some volume on them, went from 8 sets a week down to 6 sets a weeks, and they're bothering me much less than they were. Still annoying though. I don't really have anything helpful to add other than to say, no, it's not just you.