Bar Speed Measuring Equipment

[Skid]

I'm looking into equipment to measure bar speed and have a few questions for people who use velocity based training:

- Seems expensive - Does this work or do you find value in measuring this?
- How do you program based on the findings?
- What equipment do you use and what would you recommend?

Thanks for any info on this.

[220Eric]

The simplifaster blog has a few articles on bar speed trackers (they call them velocity based training devices.) I made note because the bar speed tracker interest here a couple of years ago. Here is there review of GymAware’s Flex system https://simplifaster.com/articles/gyma ... ed-review/. Hope this helps.

[Skid]

The simplifaster blog has a few articles on bar speed trackers (they call them velocity based training devices.) I made note because the bar speed tracker interest here a couple of years ago. Here is there review of GymAware’s Flex system https://simplifaster.com/articles/gyma ... ed-review/. Hope this helps.

Thanks for the info Eric.

[adamv]

For what it's worth, I have a RepOne unit I've used off and on for several years now. The novelty value is high, but it's been of pretty limited actual usefulness.

My biggest problem is that it has a lot of trouble with grindy reps (say rep 5 of a 5rm). On a set like that, it may only record 4 reps, or it may record 6 where the last rep is split into two half reps around the sticking point. The lack of data for slow reps also makes me question it's regressions and estimates.

It is pretty useful for a program like Hanley's general strength template. I'm running something like that now and there it can 1) automatically count sets, 2) time inter-set rest from the moment you rack the bar, and 3) give you objective feedback on bar speed. Having a target for for bar speed helps me mentally push as hard as possible.

Anyway, it's kind of fun to have around but $300 is a lot for a box that counts sets.

[JohnHelton]

@Skid, I use the Vitruve device. I think it works well for squat and bench. However, my force/velocity curve for deadlift is too flat for it to be useful there.

I basically just use it to figure out my top singles. My backoffs are usually HVLF work at percentages of my e1RM discovered through the heavy single. Thus, I don't use the device for the backoffs. That said, I've found it very useful for the top single.

I also do all my calculations outside of the app. I don't like the way the app determines your force/velocity curve. I've plotted mine via AMRAPs.

This is my spreadsheet that I use on my phone when in the gym.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... sp=sharing

[Skid]

@adamv Thanks for sharing that. Interesting bit about pushing as hard as possible. I find myself only pushing as hard as necessary. I could benefit from mentally and physically trying to move the bar as fast as possible.

@JohnHelton I was hoping you would chime in as I notice you use one for all the singles you video. Thanks for sharing your spreadsheet and how you use your device. From your Squat spreadsheet I see you get quite a bit of granularity even between 92 and 95% of 1RM .I've also noticed even your heavy singles move very fast, probably as a result of always thinking of bar speed.

From what I've read I'm still on the fence on this, but I don't mind spending money on my hobbies, especially as I want to start competing again. I'm crappy at estimating RPE so this could benefit me from that aspect too once I determine what my bar speed is on a 1RM.

I'm sure these devices get better every year, any recommendations on which one to buy?

[JohnHelton]

@Skid, I think the Vitruve device works well. I wouldn't say that the app is excellent, but it works well enough. I don't have experience with RepOne, but I believe I have heard more complains about the app.

BTW, though I haven't run a real velocity based training program, I would say that it would be very easy to do with the Vitruve device. This is how I personally would do it. I would set the device to alert me whenever I had 5 RIR or less on a given set. Then I would just pick a weight that I thought was in the 10-12 RM range. With that weight I would do a specific number of sets with variable reps, stopping each set when the device alerted me that I was <=5 RIR. From there I would gradually increase the weight until I was only getting a couple of reps per set. Then I would reset and start over. Running such a program is more in line with typical velocity based training. The great part is there is no thinking or judgement. You just lift until the device beeps.

[JohnHelton]

@Skid Given the conversation above I decided to do real VBT for my CG bench.

https://exodus-strength.com/forum/viewt ... 2208,-Post

[gtl]

I use RepOne, although I had a PUSH Band (crap) in 2015, bought the first Open Barbell in 2016, and even upgraded to the v2 later.

How I use it has changed slightly over time, and I will say that I don't do true VBT.

I essentially use bar speeds to predict daily e1RM, gauge RPE, adjust rest times, etc.

For lower rep sets, I am basically looking at min velocity. I have a min velocity for squat, bench, and deadlift. Bench and deadlift, which have similar ROMS are pretty close to each other (~.10m/s). But squat, which is about 50% more ROM, is almost double (~.22m/s).

I also look at both intra and inter set fatigue. On intra set fatigue, typically for sets of 4+ reps, I am considering fastest rep vs slowest rep, and the % change. On bench, I can handle as much as 25% velocity loss with out too much fatigue. For squat and deadlift, it's closer to 15%. A set of 5 on bench might have a minV that correlates to an RPE of 5, but 20% velocity loss might actually change that RPE 5 to an RPE 6. A set of 12 on bench might have a minV that correlates to an RPE of 7 or 8, but a 50% velocity loss might actually change that RPE to a 9 or 10. A set of 5 on squat might have a minV that correlates to an RPE 7, but a 5% velocity loss means I am not really generating a ton of fatigue, which means I could probably have done a little more without further drop in minV, making that set more like an RPE 6 or 6.5.

On inter set fatigue, I am typically looking at first set vs subsequent sets max velocity, min velocity, and average velocity. Generally, I am trying to keep those within 10-15% of the first set. If maxV is dropping, I might need a little more rest between sets. If minV is dropping, I might look at where it is starting to drop off, and maybe cut the next sets by 1,2,3 reps, etc. If everything is dropping, it might reasonable to either take weight off the bar, or call it on that lift for the day.

I lift 5 days a week, so managing fatigue is important. From experience, I do not do well with a lot of high RPE sets. So this stuff just kinda helps me dial things in. This morning I was doing 7x7 on SSB squats, and I wanted to drop the reps after set 4, but the bar speed data told me I had it in me to keep going and managed to complete 7x7 without overshooting. Also, I am not very strong. So take all of this with a grain of salt.

[Skid]

dupe

[Skid]

I use RepOne, although I had a PUSH Band (crap) in 2015, bought the first Open Barbell in 2016, and even upgraded to the v2 later.

How I use it has changed slightly over time, and I will say that I don't do true VBT.

I essentially use bar speeds to predict daily e1RM, gauge RPE, adjust rest times, etc.

For lower rep sets, I am basically looking at min velocity. I have a min velocity for squat, bench, and deadlift. Bench and deadlift, which have similar ROMS are pretty close to each other (~.10m/s). But squat, which is about 50% more ROM, is almost double (~.22m/s).

I also look at both intra and inter set fatigue. On intra set fatigue, typically for sets of 4+ reps, I am considering fastest rep vs slowest rep, and the % change. On bench, I can handle as much as 25% velocity loss with out too much fatigue. For squat and deadlift, it's closer to 15%. A set of 5 on bench might have a minV that correlates to an RPE of 5, but 20% velocity loss might actually change that RPE 5 to an RPE 6. A set of 12 on bench might have a minV that correlates to an RPE of 7 or 8, but a 50% velocity loss might actually change that RPE to a 9 or 10. A set of 5 on squat might have a minV that correlates to an RPE 7, but a 5% velocity loss means I am not really generating a ton of fatigue, which means I could probably have done a little more without further drop in minV, making that set more like an RPE 6 or 6.5.

On inter set fatigue, I am typically looking at first set vs subsequent sets max velocity, min velocity, and average velocity. Generally, I am trying to keep those within 10-15% of the first set. If maxV is dropping, I might need a little more rest between sets. If minV is dropping, I might look at where it is starting to drop off, and maybe cut the next sets by 1,2,3 reps, etc. If everything is dropping, it might reasonable to either take weight off the bar, or call it on that lift for the day.

I lift 5 days a week, so managing fatigue is important. From experience, I do not do well with a lot of high RPE sets. So this stuff just kinda helps me dial things in. This morning I was doing 7x7 on SSB squats, and I wanted to drop the reps after set 4, but the bar speed data told me I had it in me to keep going and managed to complete 7x7 without overshooting. Also, I am not very strong. So take all of this with a grain of salt.

Thanks for the info @gtl You're plenty strong for 175!

@Skid Given the conversation above I decided to do real VBT for my CG bench.

https://exodus-strength.com/forum/viewt ... 2208,-Post

Thanks John, I'll keep a close eye on your CG bench.

[gtl]

Thanks for the info @gtl You're plenty strong for 175!

Took me a few mins to think about where you got that info from, then I realized I had #s in my profile that don't include my squat and deadlift PRs from this year. But, thanks!

In my lifting career, I have bulked to 200 about 3-4 times and realized that I didn't need to be 200 to lift weights.

[gtl]

Also, worth mentioning, https://exodus-strength.com/forum/viewt ... p?p=298454

[Cleverusername]

I’ve used the speed4lifts device for a few years.
I currently just use it for the following:
-Assessing the difficulty of a set (my rpe gauge is broken)
-Instead of a hitting a single @8. Hitting a single in the rep range that corresponds to rpe 8 for that exercise.
-counting reps (Hey, I can’t count reps while doing 5-3-0 tempo squats, or sometimes amraps I lose count)
-measuring warmups, have some benchmark weights you know/track speeds on let you know how you’re doing on that day.

Since I’m horrible at rating RPE I find a bar speed device to be a great value. It’s like a reality check.

[Skid]

Thanks for your input @Cleverusername !

[CoolColJ]

Barbell Mate is the new Aussie made device, that seems to be the cheapest around right now.

Seems decent based on reports