steroids in sports

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FredM
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Re: steroids in sports

#341

Post by FredM » Fri Jan 06, 2023 8:47 am

CaptainAwesome wrote: Mon Jan 02, 2023 9:37 am
...

The only thing about it that bothers me is morons who have no idea what they're talking about swearing up and down these people are natty and have just hit some new level of "hard work" that makes a 50 year old man lean and extremely muscular, moreso than he was in his 20s and 30s when he was also no doubt doing "hard work".
The he can't be natty people drive me even crazier, honestly. Not because they're definitely wrong (obviously there's a really good chance they're right) but because they take it way too far into the territory of absolutely anyone with muscle is actually a lazy F and just laid in bed taking steroids.

They also, again, seemingly have no concept of a water cut. Henry Cavil in Superman looks almost exactly like Jordan of BBM if he did a water cut. I.E. a pretty jacked natty at 15% BF after a miserable water cut for a photo shoot.

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Re: steroids in sports

#342

Post by dw » Fri Jan 06, 2023 9:20 am

FredM wrote: Fri Jan 06, 2023 8:47 am
CaptainAwesome wrote: Mon Jan 02, 2023 9:37 am
...

The only thing about it that bothers me is morons who have no idea what they're talking about swearing up and down these people are natty and have just hit some new level of "hard work" that makes a 50 year old man lean and extremely muscular, moreso than he was in his 20s and 30s when he was also no doubt doing "hard work".
The he can't be natty people drive me even crazier, honestly. Not because they're definitely wrong (obviously there's a really good chance they're right) but because they take it way too far into the territory of absolutely anyone with muscle is actually a lazy F and just laid in bed taking steroids.

They also, again, seemingly have no concept of a water cut. Henry Cavil in Superman looks almost exactly like Jordan of BBM if he did a water cut. I.E. a pretty jacked natty at 15% BF after a miserable water cut for a photo shoot.

Probably depends what kind of sites you read but these days I see more overzealous "fake natty" policing than naive defenses of people obviously juicing.

I think part of the problem is people mistaking aesthetics for actual size or strength.

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Re: steroids in sports

#343

Post by CaptainAwesome » Fri Jan 06, 2023 9:51 am

FredM wrote: Fri Jan 06, 2023 8:47 am The he can't be natty people drive me even crazier, honestly. Not because they're definitely wrong (obviously there's a really good chance they're right) but because they take it way too far into the territory of absolutely anyone with muscle is actually a lazy F and just laid in bed taking steroids.
See, those people are just kind of self-owning. When you accuse someone of taking steroids and they don't, that's basically pretty high praise. I remember the first time I had heard someone had speculated I'd been taking steroids I smiled and felt pretty good about myself.

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Hardartery
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Re: steroids in sports

#344

Post by Hardartery » Fri Jan 06, 2023 10:07 am

dw wrote: Fri Jan 06, 2023 9:20 am
FredM wrote: Fri Jan 06, 2023 8:47 am
CaptainAwesome wrote: Mon Jan 02, 2023 9:37 am
...

The only thing about it that bothers me is morons who have no idea what they're talking about swearing up and down these people are natty and have just hit some new level of "hard work" that makes a 50 year old man lean and extremely muscular, moreso than he was in his 20s and 30s when he was also no doubt doing "hard work".
The he can't be natty people drive me even crazier, honestly. Not because they're definitely wrong (obviously there's a really good chance they're right) but because they take it way too far into the territory of absolutely anyone with muscle is actually a lazy F and just laid in bed taking steroids.

They also, again, seemingly have no concept of a water cut. Henry Cavil in Superman looks almost exactly like Jordan of BBM if he did a water cut. I.E. a pretty jacked natty at 15% BF after a miserable water cut for a photo shoot.

Probably depends what kind of sites you read but these days I see more overzealous "fake natty" policing than naive defenses of people obviously juicing.

I think part of the problem is people mistaking aesthetics for actual size or strength.
I think part of the problem is Social Media pics. What you think of a guy's size and all of that can change pretty radically when you see a fellow standing next to a genuinely large person. Everybody is "Hyooge" in the Social Media stuff, but they aren't at all. Low bodyfat masquerades for actual muscle mass on the web, and genpop doesn't know the difference. I can walk into virtually any gym and be the massive guy, but I can stand next to Savickas and I look like a kid, the images are being taken in isolation and carefully staged for a reason.

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Re: steroids in sports

#345

Post by FredM » Fri Jan 06, 2023 10:23 am

CaptainAwesome wrote: Fri Jan 06, 2023 9:51 am
FredM wrote: Fri Jan 06, 2023 8:47 am The he can't be natty people drive me even crazier, honestly. Not because they're definitely wrong (obviously there's a really good chance they're right) but because they take it way too far into the territory of absolutely anyone with muscle is actually a lazy F and just laid in bed taking steroids.
See, those people are just kind of self-owning. When you accuse someone of taking steroids and they don't, that's basically pretty high praise. I remember the first time I had heard someone had speculated I'd been taking steroids I smiled and felt pretty good about myself.
I have two little brothers who genuinely think there's nothing they can do. So they don't bother. There's a lot of kids like that which is why the fake natty people annoy me.

I agree. If I got called out for being on anything I'd feel pretty damn good about myself lol. I'm sure the 2-5 celebrities that aren't on stuff feel the same way -- I'm not worried about their feelings, just the standards/expectations being set for kids.

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Re: steroids in sports

#346

Post by asdf » Fri Jan 06, 2023 11:43 am

FredM wrote: Fri Jan 06, 2023 8:47 amlike Jordan of BBM if he did a water cut. I.E. a pretty jacked natty
Has Jordan ever claimed to be natural?

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Re: steroids in sports

#347

Post by dw » Fri Jan 06, 2023 11:58 am

asdf wrote: Fri Jan 06, 2023 11:43 am
FredM wrote: Fri Jan 06, 2023 8:47 amlike Jordan of BBM if he did a water cut. I.E. a pretty jacked natty
Has Jordan ever claimed to be natural?
He has clearly implied it but I don't remember if he stated it.

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Re: steroids in sports

#348

Post by CaptainAwesome » Fri Jan 06, 2023 1:33 pm

FredM wrote: Fri Jan 06, 2023 10:23 am I have two little brothers who genuinely think there's nothing they can do. So they don't bother. There's a lot of kids like that which is why the fake natty people annoy me.
Yeah, I used to think that way myself for a long time. It really sucks I let myself get discouraged like that, I wish I had gotten into this stuff much earlier, because I really enjoy it.

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Re: steroids in sports

#349

Post by zappey1 » Fri Jan 06, 2023 2:35 pm

CaptainAwesome wrote: Mon Jan 02, 2023 9:37 am
FredM wrote: Thu Oct 27, 2022 10:42 am
zappey1 wrote: Sun Oct 09, 2022 11:35 am I'm sure he had no secret supplement help! :lol:
https://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/henry-c ... 00525.html
How Henry Cavill Built Muscle and Burned Fat Simultaneously for 'The Witcher'
Not to sound like a fanboy but:

1. Derek (more plates) did a pretty thorough analysis on this already and concluded he could definitely be natty
2. Henry made a big point about not taking "secret supplements" for the Superman role because it such an important character to kids
3. The article you linked has a headline that doesn't match the content at all. He didn't gain muscle and lose fat at the same time. He gained more muscle then lost a bunch of water weight for a shoot -- like every bodybuilder and ripped male actor ever.

All that said no one would be that surprised if he went on something like TRT for Witcher.
Those articles are often written by people who have no idea how the process works anyway. Just reading it, the person seems to actually believe it's training that makes most of the bodyfat go away. I mean, I guess it COULD, if you spend hours a day doing stuff. Fuck if I know what effect that would have on muscles though. It doesn't actually really matter, but Cavill seems like the most buyable of the celebrity physiques. Instead of the usual MCU "shlub to fitness model in 6 months" type crap we often see, Cavill actually took two years to go from a pretty goddamn lean, fit guy in Immortals to a slightly less lean guy with bigger muscles in Man of Steel. Doesn't mean even that didn't have some special sauce involved, but it's not far-fetched. The only thing that makes me wonder is his recent entry into the rockosphere. But in the end, it doesn't really matter. If dudes want to take shit to portray larger than life muscular characters, especially when they are in middle age or beyond, that's fine. The only thing about it that bothers me is morons who have no idea what they're talking about swearing up and down these people are natty and have just hit some new level of "hard work" that makes a 50 year old man lean and extremely muscular, moreso than he was in his 20s and 30s when he was also no doubt doing "hard work".
I hope You are not trying to say my BOY the Rock isn't Natty! :evil:

The fact people still defend him as natural or only juicing in his younger days it literally laughable.

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Re: steroids in sports

#350

Post by hector » Tue Jan 10, 2023 7:25 pm

CaptainAwesome wrote: Fri Jan 06, 2023 9:51 am I remember the first time I had heard someone had speculated I'd been taking steroids I smiled and felt pretty good about myself.
I hope one day someone accuses me of moderate exercise.

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Re: steroids in sports

#351

Post by mbasic » Wed Jan 11, 2023 3:22 am

CaptainAwesome wrote: Fri Jan 06, 2023 9:51 am I remember the first time I had heard someone had speculated I'd been taking steroids I smiled and felt pretty good about myself.
hector wrote: Tue Jan 10, 2023 7:25 pm I hope one day someone accuses me of moderate exercise.
----------------------

Kinda of a sidebar , loosely related topic .... remember about 6-12 years ago when people thought creatine was steroids? That shit was funny. My wife was borderline one of those 'people'.

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Re: steroids in sports

#352

Post by hector » Wed Jan 11, 2023 4:44 am

mbasic wrote: Wed Jan 11, 2023 3:22 am
CaptainAwesome wrote: Fri Jan 06, 2023 9:51 am I remember the first time I had heard someone had speculated I'd been taking steroids I smiled and felt pretty good about myself.
hector wrote: Tue Jan 10, 2023 7:25 pm I hope one day someone accuses me of moderate exercise.
----------------------

Kinda of a sidebar , loosely related topic .... remember about 6-12 years ago when people thought creatine was steroids? That shit was funny. My wife was borderline one of those 'people'.
I remember 12 years ago (maybe longer) when you could almost buy steroids at GNC, the supplements were so dirty.

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Re: steroids in sports

#353

Post by CaptainAwesome » Wed Jan 11, 2023 5:04 pm

hector wrote: Tue Jan 10, 2023 7:25 pm I hope one day someone accuses me of moderate exercise.
I like that.
mbasic wrote: Wed Jan 11, 2023 3:22 am Kinda of a sidebar , loosely related topic .... remember about 6-12 years ago when people thought creatine was steroids? That shit was funny. My wife was borderline one of those 'people'.
It's fucking hilarious after learning what it actually is. You might as well call sugar a PED.
hector wrote: Wed Jan 11, 2023 4:44 am I remember 12 years ago (maybe longer) when you could almost buy steroids at GNC, the supplements were so dirty.
The prohormones? I remember some people got pretty fucked up by those, especially since dosing couldn't be reliably measured or controlled, or something like that.

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Re: steroids in sports

#354

Post by hector » Wed Jan 11, 2023 5:25 pm

CaptainAwesome wrote: Wed Jan 11, 2023 5:04 pm
hector wrote: Wed Jan 11, 2023 4:44 am I remember 12 years ago (maybe longer) when you could almost buy steroids at GNC, the supplements were so dirty.
The prohormones? I remember some people got pretty fucked up by those, especially since dosing couldn't be reliably measured or controlled, or something like that.
The one that immediately comes to mind is “Russian Bear.” Maybe it was a prohormone? They subsequently made a protein with the same name, and between that and some Russian hacker group named “fancy bear”, it’s gumming up my Google searches.

And then in the late 90’s there was “andro”, which I assumed might have worked well since it was banned by baseball.

The stimulants back then, the original Mac 10 and the original Ripped Fuel, were both insane.

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Re: steroids in sports

#355

Post by Hardartery » Thu Jan 12, 2023 6:10 am

hector wrote: Wed Jan 11, 2023 5:25 pm
CaptainAwesome wrote: Wed Jan 11, 2023 5:04 pm
hector wrote: Wed Jan 11, 2023 4:44 am I remember 12 years ago (maybe longer) when you could almost buy steroids at GNC, the supplements were so dirty.
The prohormones? I remember some people got pretty fucked up by those, especially since dosing couldn't be reliably measured or controlled, or something like that.
The one that immediately comes to mind is “Russian Bear.” Maybe it was a prohormone? They subsequently made a protein with the same name, and between that and some Russian hacker group named “fancy bear”, it’s gumming up my Google searches.

And then in the late 90’s there was “andro”, which I assumed might have worked well since it was banned by baseball.

The stimulants back then, the original Mac 10 and the original Ripped Fuel, were both insane.
Russian Bear was a guy, he was selling lifting programs and supplements. Think Liver King but without social media, and fatter. The andros (Like 1AD) were all labelled as prohormaones, they were all marketed as steroid precursores (Which is what a prohormone is, like D3 for example, it doesn't mean what people think) and they were the brainchild of Patrick Arnold. He went to prison for a bit, which frankly was a bit of a miscarriage of justice. He was a chemist, he also was on some boards that I was on back in the day, and one of the guys I competed with who was also a chemist with his own research lab did some work with him. The court decided that the prohormones were all actually steroids and not prohormones and thus schedule 3 narcotics. Some of them did very much work and would absolutely cause a failed drug test, even though they would theoretically not cause that failed test. They would do enough to cause shutdown of your natural production but still do less for you than just taking gear.
Side note, one of my younger brothers is into BBing, and he got disqualified by failing a drug test after winning Mr. Ontario. He was only on 1AD, and also didn't know it was a tested contest.

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Re: steroids in sports

#356

Post by CaptainAwesome » Thu Jan 12, 2023 11:59 am

Hardartery wrote: Thu Jan 12, 2023 6:10 am Russian Bear was a guy, he was selling lifting programs and supplements. Think Liver King but without social media, and fatter. The andros (Like 1AD) were all labelled as prohormaones, they were all marketed as steroid precursores (Which is what a prohormone is, like D3 for example, it doesn't mean what people think) and they were the brainchild of Patrick Arnold. He went to prison for a bit, which frankly was a bit of a miscarriage of justice. He was a chemist, he also was on some boards that I was on back in the day, and one of the guys I competed with who was also a chemist with his own research lab did some work with him. The court decided that the prohormones were all actually steroids and not prohormones and thus schedule 3 narcotics. Some of them did very much work and would absolutely cause a failed drug test, even though they would theoretically not cause that failed test. They would do enough to cause shutdown of your natural production but still do less for you than just taking gear.
Side note, one of my younger brothers is into BBing, and he got disqualified by failing a drug test after winning Mr. Ontario. He was only on 1AD, and also didn't know it was a tested contest.
I just remember hearing you couldn't well predict how much hormone you ended up with your body deriving from the prohormone stuff each time you took it, so you had guys roller-coastering their hormone levels while in endogenous shutdown and growing tits. Maybe that wasn't quite what caused it, but a bunch of teenage boys growing tits from something they got at GNC was probably what brought the banhammer down on it.

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Re: steroids in sports

#357

Post by zappey1 » Tue Mar 07, 2023 4:40 pm

Dana Knows:
"Listen, what can I say? He looks good," said White. "I don't think he's been USADA tested, but he looks great."
https://www.yahoo.com/news/ufc-boss-dan ... 20635.html

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Re: steroids in sports

#358

Post by mouse » Fri Mar 17, 2023 2:39 pm

zappey1 wrote: Fri Jan 06, 2023 2:35 pmThe fact people still defend him as natural or only juicing in his younger days it literally laughable.
I don't care this is an older comment but I demand to know who is dumb enough to see Rock now vs Rock in the late 90's/early 2000's and then claim THAT Rock was juicing but current Rock is natural.

Rock blew the fuck up so much that he's kind of hard to look at and definately impossible to take seriously on Instagram...


Also count me in the club of guys who have been assumed to or accused of being on gear. By both fellow athletes and coworkers/randos. It's a weird feeling to have to tell them, sorry, I'm too cheap/dumb to be on drugs and just kind of naturally inclined to be kinda big and strong ish

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Re: steroids in sports

#359

Post by lheugh » Fri Mar 17, 2023 2:44 pm

mouse wrote: Fri Mar 17, 2023 2:39 pm
zappey1 wrote: Fri Jan 06, 2023 2:35 pmThe fact people still defend him as natural or only juicing in his younger days it literally laughable.
I don't care this is an older comment but I demand to know who is dumb enough to see Rock now vs Rock in the late 90's/early 2000's and then claim THAT Rock was juicing but current Rock is natural.

Rock blew the fuck up so much that he's kind of hard to look at and definately impossible to take seriously on Instagram...


Also count me in the club of guys who have been assumed to or accused of being on gear. By both fellow athletes and coworkers/randos. It's a weird feeling to have to tell them, sorry, I'm too cheap/dumb to be on drugs and just kind of naturally inclined to be kinda big and strong ish
The Rock was a flippin' juggernaut in Pain & Gain. I've never seen the man bigger than he was in that movie. And I've also been thought of by many as being on gear. I just take it as a compliment. :lol:

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Re: steroids in sports

#360

Post by zappey1 » Fri Mar 17, 2023 10:45 pm

mouse wrote: Fri Mar 17, 2023 2:39 pm
zappey1 wrote: Fri Jan 06, 2023 2:35 pmThe fact people still defend him as natural or only juicing in his younger days it literally laughable.
I don't care this is an older comment but I demand to know who is dumb enough to see Rock now vs Rock in the late 90's/early 2000's and then claim THAT Rock was juicing but current Rock is natural.

Rock blew the fuck up so much that he's kind of hard to look at and definately impossible to take seriously on Instagram...


Also count me in the club of guys who have been assumed to or accused of being on gear. By both fellow athletes and coworkers/randos. It's a weird feeling to have to tell them, sorry, I'm too cheap/dumb to be on drugs and just kind of naturally inclined to be kinda big and strong ish
Every teenager EVER. The rock also doesn't acknowledge he is on gear and actively promotes that if you work out like him you can achieve a similar physique without mentioning "supplements". I have broken at least 20 teenager hearts when I tell them the Rock is 100% on gear. Many have accused me of being a hater (Which I might be) and running away crying.

He is the new Hulk Hogan telling kids to take their Vitamins and say their prayers and they to can have 22-inch pythons


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