Mar-a-lago Bebop

[oldguy]

Like if Trump is getting a briefing about a classified subject and takes handwritten notes,

you have a great sense of humor

https://apps.npr.org/documents/document ... -lago-affi

Boom.

Paragraph 47.

Several of the documents also contained what appears to be FPOTUS's handwritten notes.

Probaby " double quarter pounder w/ cheese " but, you win.

[hector]

Like if Trump is getting a briefing about a classified subject and takes handwritten notes,

you have a great sense of humor

https://apps.npr.org/documents/document ... -lago-affi

Boom.

Paragraph 47.

Several of the documents also contained what appears to be FPOTUS's handwritten notes.

I'm simultaneously fascinated/terrified at the prospect of reading the notes Trump wrote in the margins on printed classified slides describing nuclear war, imminent terrorism attacks, global crime rings, etc.

[augeleven]

Like if Trump is getting a briefing about a classified subject and takes handwritten notes,

you have a great sense of humor

https://apps.npr.org/documents/document ... -lago-affi

Boom.

Paragraph 47.

Several of the documents also contained what appears to be FPOTUS's handwritten notes.

I'm simultaneously fascinated/terrified at the prospect of reading the notes Trump wrote in the margins on printed classified slides describing nuclear war, imminent terrorism attacks, global crime rings, etc.

Probably similar to the Jackie Treehorn doodle from the Big Lebowski. Image not linked cuz I’m classy like that.

[JonA]

Every time I see this picture of trump on the golf course with his cohorts, all I can think is that Trump is about to go full Leeroy Jenkins. (par for the course, I guess)

[augeleven]

I’ve seen that pic referred to as The Last Subpoena.
I lol’ed

[Hiphopapotamus]

I’ve seen that pic referred to as The Last Subpoena.
I lol’ed

Nailed it.

[mikeylikey]

Been a rough couple days for ol' Donnie boy.

[hsilman]

I'm pleasantly surprised by the developments. I didn't realize that it was possible that Trump/his team wouldn't even know what was in the boxes themselves. It seems like they can sidestep the whole "the president can declassify anything they want at any time" issue by simply going "ok cool, what are the documents and when did you declassify them?". If they can't even tell you what the documents are, they can't reasonably claim to have declassified then so we can avoid the whole constitutional issue surrounding classification. At least that's my read of the situation.

[aurelius]

The appeals court basically wrote a 29 page opinion stating the Federal judge that order the special magistrate is an idiot.
-And that classified documents are the governments property.
-And even if classified documents are declassified, still the governments property.
-And there is no authority or privileges given to a former President for any of this.
-Of course the government has a strong interest to control and investigate the handling of classified documents cause duh (the appeals court used the phrase “self-evident”)

There was never a Constitutional issue or Federal law interpretation at stake. The Federal judge Trump selected (because they are a partisan hack) had no basis in the law to rule the way she did.

The DOJ could have gotten the whole special maester thing thrown out but narrowly tailored it to the US government docs. In fact, the special maester plays into the governments hand. Trumps legal team and resources will be tied down to arguing over the remaining documents while the rest of the investigation proceeds.

How does the government take on a billionaire? War on all fronts. Trump is battling the State of New York, state of Georgia, and the DOJ.

[hsilman]

So, what happens if he hasn't been convicted of anything(or even if he has, and is in jail somehow) and then wins in 2024? Not the most unreasonable scenario. He just pardons himself from a jail cell and life goes on?

[hector]

So, what happens if he hasn't been convicted of anything(or even if he has, and is in jail somehow) and then wins in 2024? Not the most unreasonable scenario. He just pardons himself from a jail cell and life goes on?

That presidential pardon is tricky. There was a legal writer on Slate who, in reference to Trump and his kids, wrote that when you're pardoned you give up the right not to incriminate yourself. You have to spill the beans on what happened, you don't have the 5th Amendment anymore, sonce you cant argue youre not incriminating yourself.

I think she was speculating though, because this territory is just so weird and unprecedented.

Pardoning yourself from prison, it's all so crazy. But so is whats happened so far.

[Hiphopapotamus]

So, what happens if he hasn't been convicted of anything(or even if he has, and is in jail somehow) and then wins in 2024? Not the most unreasonable scenario. He just pardons himself from a jail cell and life goes on?

That presidential pardon is tricky. There was a legal writer on Slate who, in reference to Trump and his kids, wrote that when you're pardoned you give up the right not to incriminate yourself. You have to spill the beans on what happened, you don't have the 5th Amendment anymore, sonce you cant argue youre not incriminating yourself.

I think she was speculating though, because this territory is just so weird and unprecedented.

Pardoning yourself from prison, it's all so crazy. But so is whats happened so far.

This is what's so gross about the modern GOP. Enough of them could have voted to convict during his impeachment (for instigating an actual coup, mind you!) and he would have been barred from office for life. They individually would have been primaried out of politics but their party and their country would have been protected from Trump being president again. But only a very very few were willing to put the interests of the country above their careers, despite Trump being a blatant existential threat to democracy in the US. Blech.

[cgeorg]

So, what happens if he hasn't been convicted of anything(or even if he has, and is in jail somehow) and then wins in 2024? Not the most unreasonable scenario. He just pardons himself from a jail cell and life goes on?

That presidential pardon is tricky. There was a legal writer on Slate who, in reference to Trump and his kids, wrote that when you're pardoned you give up the right not to incriminate yourself. You have to spill the beans on what happened, you don't have the 5th Amendment anymore, sonce you cant argue youre not incriminating yourself.

I think she was speculating though, because this territory is just so weird and unprecedented.

Pardoning yourself from prison, it's all so crazy. But so is whats happened so far.

This is what's so gross about the modern GOP. Enough of them could have voted to convict during his impeachment (for instigating an actual coup, mind you!) and he would have been barred from office for life. They individually would have been primaried out of politics but their party and their country would have been protected from Trump being president again. But only a very very few were willing to put the interests of the country above their careers, despite Trump being a blatant existential threat to democracy in the US. Blech.

It kind of upsets me when liberal friends (i'm a lib, I can call them that) don't give any credit where credit is due to people like Liz Cheney. You can disagree with her politics but when it's come to the foundation of our democracy she has done the right thing. I guess it is sad that she is an outlier.

[SnakePlissken]

That presidential pardon is tricky. There was a legal writer on Slate who, in reference to Trump and his kids, wrote that when you're pardoned you give up the right not to incriminate yourself. You have to spill the beans on what happened, you don't have the 5th Amendment anymore, sonce you cant argue youre not incriminating yourself.

Didn't know this. Read into it more and since the presidency is part of the Federal legislature, pardons only apply on the Federal level so the DOJ may be pardonable, but the States suing him sounds like he couldn't pardon himself from those if he became President again.

[Hiphopapotamus]

So, what happens if he hasn't been convicted of anything(or even if he has, and is in jail somehow) and then wins in 2024? Not the most unreasonable scenario. He just pardons himself from a jail cell and life goes on?

That presidential pardon is tricky. There was a legal writer on Slate who, in reference to Trump and his kids, wrote that when you're pardoned you give up the right not to incriminate yourself. You have to spill the beans on what happened, you don't have the 5th Amendment anymore, sonce you cant argue youre not incriminating yourself.

I think she was speculating though, because this territory is just so weird and unprecedented.

Pardoning yourself from prison, it's all so crazy. But so is whats happened so far.

This is what's so gross about the modern GOP. Enough of them could have voted to convict during his impeachment (for instigating an actual coup, mind you!) and he would have been barred from office for life. They individually would have been primaried out of politics but their party and their country would have been protected from Trump being president again. But only a very very few were willing to put the interests of the country above their careers, despite Trump being a blatant existential threat to democracy in the US. Blech.

It kind of upsets me when liberal friends (i'm a lib, I can call them that) don't give any credit where credit is due to people like Liz Cheney. You can disagree with her politics but when it's come to the foundation of our democracy she has done the right thing. I guess it is sad that she is an outlier.

Yep. I can disagree with her on policy 95-100% but she has proven that she has personal integrity, refuses to insist that the sky is green, and actually cares more about democracy than her own career. Which used to be your standard, middle-of-the-road Republican. But going back to 1964 the GOP embarked on a decades-long surrender to the John Birch wing; and that's all the party is today, a bunch of extremist conspiracy theorists locked in a perpetual struggle to get further to the right than the next guy*.

*we do NOT embrace gender-neutral language. It is a mailMAN, libs, as God intended. Deal with it.

[aurelius]

I wanted to post this because it made me giggle...this thread was the most relevant. The Onion attributed a quote to Donald Trump in response to his indictment:

"All arrests are politically motivated as the political system is the codified exercise of political power."

[augeleven]

[GlasgowJock]

Had a look though pages of Off-Topic though didn't actually see a Trump specific thread, so:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/0 ... gniter-rhr

Paywalled/ TLDR: Essentially the article says that lawfare in the political space simply further polarizes an already severely and dangerously polarised electorate.

[augeleven]

The whole article is worth posting.

https://www.theonion.com/trump-all-arre ... 1850288923

I love the idea of politicians quoting Foucault.

[aurelius]

Paywalled/ TLDR: Essentially the article says that lawfare in the political space simply further polarizes an already severely and dangerously polarised electorate.

Unless if I am missing something, the Manhattan DA should drop this. Yes, Trump technically broke the law. Something about misuse of campaign finance funds. Let's ignore the low level aspect of it and that it isn't worth going through the trial that will most likely make Trump politically more powerful. The idea is we should treat the President or ex-President the same under the law as everyone else. These types of campaign finance laws are broken all the time at all levels. Remove the salacious details and Trump, charges would not be brought.