Why do you think I failed this deadlift?

[alek]

Here's my third deadlift attempt from this past weekend.



Why do you think I failed it, and do you have any suggestions on how to improve?

[Hardartery]

You stopped pulling too soon, for starters. I know it probably felt like an eternity, but you didn't actually pull very long. That aside, you are pulling from the shoulders and the point at which you failed you needed to transfer to pushing the hips through. If you do some work with bands you blow that lift up like nothing, you don't need more strength just technique tweak. Even just some mini bands that you hold down with your feet and wrap the bar, it will force you to nail that transition. I think I have a couple of old videos of me pulling that way. You don't need serious bands, just some light ones will be enough.

[alek]

That aside, you are pulling from the shoulders

Can you explain this a little more. I'm not sure I follow.

and the point at which you failed you needed to transfer to pushing the hips through. If you do some work with bands you blow that lift up like nothing, you don't need more strength just technique tweak. Even just some mini bands that you hold down with your feet and wrap the bar, it will force you to nail that transition. I think I have a couple of old videos of me pulling that way. You don't need serious bands, just some light ones will be enough.

Do you wrap the band around the barbell like people do when they do band-assisted pullups, and then stand in the loop in your deadlift stance?

What type of set/rep/load scheme did you use when doing that?

[Hardartery]

That aside, you are pulling from the shoulders

Can you explain this a little more. I'm not sure I follow.

and the point at which you failed you needed to transfer to pushing the hips through. If you do some work with bands you blow that lift up like nothing, you don't need more strength just technique tweak. Even just some mini bands that you hold down with your feet and wrap the bar, it will force you to nail that transition. I think I have a couple of old videos of me pulling that way. You don't need serious bands, just some light ones will be enough.

Do you wrap the band around the barbell like people do when they do band-assisted pullups, and then stand in the loop in your deadlift stance?

What type of set/rep/load scheme did you use when doing that?

There is a transition where you stop pulling "Up" and just push the hips forward. You aren't doing that. Your shoulders also look a little forward, but you appear to be clearly pulling when it stops. If you can settle into it, the shoulders will actually come back a little and you push the hips to get lockout instead of keeping the strain across the shoulders. Hitching is the extreme, against the rules demonstration.

Yes, I just hang the bands on the bar and then I step into the dangling ends when I set up. I stole it directly from Clint Darden. Use them for some back off sets like accessory work, get some reps. It pushes you to develop CAT as well as simply driving through that transition. You have a lot more in you than you are getting at the meet, that bar popped off the floor like it was spring loaded. I bet you have an easy 20 kg hanging out there waiting, no joke.

[Renascent]

You stopped pulling too soon, for starters. I know it probably felt like an eternity, but you didn't actually pull very long.

To my unqualified untrained eye, yeah -- looked like you stopped the pull prematurely, maybe even before the real sticking point.

But again, I'm not qualified to coach (but I can cheer).

I bet you have an easy 20 kg hanging out there waiting, no joke.

Totally agree. It was a beautiful start.

There is a transition where you stop pulling "Up" and just push the hips forward.

... A question about this:

You mentioned that he was "pulling from the shoulders" during the "up" portion; does the up portion normally come from the hamstrings? Is it dependent on the lifter and their technique?

Is this another way of saying that he wasn't optimally centered over the bar, i.e., a lack of lat engagement to keep it closer to the body?

Do you wrap the band around the barbell like people do when they do band-assisted pullups, and then stand in the loop in your deadlift stance?

If I may...

[alek]

There is a transition where you stop pulling "Up" and just push the hips forward. You aren't doing that. Your shoulders also look a little forward, but you appear to be clearly pulling when it stops. If you can settle into it, the shoulders will actually come back a little and you push the hips to get lockout instead of keeping the strain across the shoulders. Hitching is the extreme, against the rules demonstration.

Yes, I just hang the bands on the bar and then I step into the dangling ends when I set up. I stole it directly from Clint Darden. Use them for some back off sets like accessory work, get some reps. It pushes you to develop CAT as well as simply driving through that transition. You have a lot more in you than you are getting at the meet, that bar popped off the floor like it was spring loaded. I bet you have an easy 20 kg hanging out there waiting, no joke.

Thank you. One more question, what is CAT?

[alek]

To my unqualified untrained eye, yeah -- looked like you stopped the pull prematurely, maybe even before the real sticking point.

But again, I'm not qualified to coach (but I can cheer).
Totally agree. It was a beautiful start.

Thank you!

... A question about this:

You mentioned that he was "pulling from the shoulders" during the "up" portion; does the up portion normally come from the hamstrings? Is it dependent on the lifter and their technique?

Is this another way of saying that he wasn't optimally centered over the bar, i.e., a lack of lat engagement to keep it closer to the body?

I second the question!

If I may...

Thank you!

[Hardartery]

You stopped pulling too soon, for starters. I know it probably felt like an eternity, but you didn't actually pull very long.

To my unqualified untrained eye, yeah -- looked like you stopped the pull prematurely, maybe even before the real sticking point.

But again, I'm not qualified to coach (but I can cheer).

I bet you have an easy 20 kg hanging out there waiting, no joke.

Totally agree. It was a beautiful start.

There is a transition where you stop pulling "Up" and just push the hips forward.

... A question about this:

You mentioned that he was "pulling from the shoulders" during the "up" portion; does the up portion normally come from the hamstrings? Is it dependent on the lifter and their technique?

Is this another way of saying that he wasn't optimally centered over the bar, i.e., a lack of lat engagement to keep it closer to the body?

Do you wrap the band around the barbell like people do when they do band-assisted pullups, and then stand in the loop in your deadlift stance?

If I may...

It could be lack of lat engagement, it is definitely that the bar isn't in the right place for his body. The glutes have a lot to do with breaking through the transition, and he seems to lack activation there. The way it popped off of the floor it isn't a lower back problem. Some guys go to more of an Eddie Hall style of squatting down to increase leg involvement, but in Hall's case it is because he is really more of a squatter and he is maximizing what the suit will do by using that squat down. In Alek's case there is no suit involved and I don't know his lifting all around well enough to know if he's more of a squatter but he appears to have leverages more suited to pulling. So when he broke the floor it is hamstrings and lower back doing most of the movement, then you run out of ROM on those and have to push the hips through but it's very difficult to tell your body to do that. You are locked in on pulling up, when in fact the most efficient path becomes the hinge movement of pushing the hips through. When he gets that activation to click it will feel like he is cheating. The shoulders will feel like you are pulling back instead of up, but really you are just keeping the weight stacked over the mid-foot/ankle and driving the hips. The quads can them assist better on the lockout, and they are in an advantageous position to do that.
In short, the muscles that start the lift hit the end of their ROM as far as leverage, and he just kept trying to use those muscles out of position and everything stopped. The sensation of pulling back is kind of false, you are really just keeping the bar from drifting forward but proprioception is off and it "Feels" different than it really is.

[Clearwater47]

Just wanted to jump in here and express some gratitude for this discussion. I've often felt like I struggle with getting my hips through at the appropriate time as well, and don't quite know what to do to resolve that. So the discussion is definitely pertinent to a wide range of people that may be reading this now or in the future, even if we don't necessarily have anything of substance to add. Thanks to everyone!

[alek]

You stopped pulling too soon, for starters. I know it probably felt like an eternity, but you didn't actually pull very long.

To my unqualified untrained eye, yeah -- looked like you stopped the pull prematurely, maybe even before the real sticking point.

But again, I'm not qualified to coach (but I can cheer).

I bet you have an easy 20 kg hanging out there waiting, no joke.

Totally agree. It was a beautiful start.

There is a transition where you stop pulling "Up" and just push the hips forward.

... A question about this:

You mentioned that he was "pulling from the shoulders" during the "up" portion; does the up portion normally come from the hamstrings? Is it dependent on the lifter and their technique?

Is this another way of saying that he wasn't optimally centered over the bar, i.e., a lack of lat engagement to keep it closer to the body?

Do you wrap the band around the barbell like people do when they do band-assisted pullups, and then stand in the loop in your deadlift stance?

If I may...

It could be lack of lat engagement, it is definitely that the bar isn't in the right place for his body. The glutes have a lot to do with breaking through the transition, and he seems to lack activation there. The way it popped off of the floor it isn't a lower back problem. Some guys go to more of an Eddie Hall style of squatting down to increase leg involvement, but in Hall's case it is because he is really more of a squatter and he is maximizing what the suit will do by using that squat down. In Alek's case there is no suit involved and I don't know his lifting all around well enough to know if he's more of a squatter but he appears to have leverages more suited to pulling. So when he broke the floor it is hamstrings and lower back doing most of the movement, then you run out of ROM on those and have to push the hips through but it's very difficult to tell your body to do that. You are locked in on pulling up, when in fact the most efficient path becomes the hinge movement of pushing the hips through. When he gets that activation to click it will feel like he is cheating. The shoulders will feel like you are pulling back instead of up, but really you are just keeping the weight stacked over the mid-foot/ankle and driving the hips. The quads can them assist better on the lockout, and they are in an advantageous position to do that.
In short, the muscles that start the lift hit the end of their ROM as far as leverage, and he just kept trying to use those muscles out of position and everything stopped. The sensation of pulling back is kind of false, you are really just keeping the bar from drifting forward but proprioception is off and it "Feels" different than it really is.

Thank you. This gives me a lot to think about.

[ChasingCurls69]

I think alongside what Hardartery said, you might benefit from bringing your heels in very slightly to change the shin angle. If you are on the wider side of a conventional deadlift and the knees come in slightly, it kills your leverage below the knee. So heels in gives you a toe angle that has shins angled out and coming in to vertical at the worst, which will let you maintain better leverage through that spot where you missed.

[alek]

I think alongside what Hardartery said, you might benefit from bringing your heels in very slightly to change the shin angle. If you are on the wider side of a conventional deadlift and the knees come in slightly, it kills your leverage below the knee. So heels in gives you a toe angle that has shins angled out and coming in to vertical at the worst, which will let you maintain better leverage through that spot where you missed.

Thank you; I’ll try that out.

[ChrisMcCarthy1979]

I'm guessing the main reason you failed that deadlift is that you were fucked from your previous 8 attempts - it's pretty common to see lifters "nope" on their last attempts, even at IPF World level...

[alek]

I'm guessing the main reason you failed that deadlift is that you were fucked from your previous 8 attempts - it's pretty common to see lifters "nope" on their last attempts, even at IPF World level...

That’s certainly possible. Every deadlift PR I’ve had in the past has usually come on a day where I haven’t tried to max out my squat and bench beforehand on the same day.