Article: Common Squat Errors (Community Project)

[Hanley]

I love these two quotes:

2. "Hip drive" can also be cued as "leg drive" or "using your quads". It's simply a cue intended to counteract the chest/bar drive and keep the torso angle fixed out of the bottom. I feel like a proper "chest drive" is severely underrated and under discussed around certain parts, but that's another topic. As to what degree of back angle loss is acceptable, that's a bit more of a squishy thing I think. Perhaps we can take bar speed or smoothness of the lift? If you start learning forwards enough the bar slows, it's bad?

You literally want your sacrum to skull to locked in as one unit.

Regarding the first: I think OCG is right on. "Hip Drive", "Chest up" etc, etc seem to all correct something regarding relative rates of opening at the hip and knee joints vs rate of vertical bar displacement. I'm too dumb to articulate what the ideal relationship in the rates should be. I might be completely off base, but I think I intuitively look for jacked up rates of joint opening and bar displacement when cueing "hips" or "chest".

Regarding the second: Yes! Once a lifter gets the basics down, torso rigidity is of prime importance (it's so important that its mention demands italics and bold font). I don't think it's possible to overstate the importance of an absolutely rigid torso. It's also incredibly difficult to coach. I'll try to tease out some cues for 1) upper back isometric contraction and 2) valsalva.

For now, I'll simply repeat what I've said before: the 30-50 seconds of trunk bracing in a squat set should rank among the most taxing volitional efforts of your life. Literally. Every time. (I fail at achieving this on almost every set). I think every major breakthrough I've had with press, dead and squat mechanics has started with an ever more rigid torso. In brief: if it helps, replace the oft-repeated "Tight, tight, tight" with "most intense volitional effort of my life*".


* I don't think the knee and hip extension in a squat are "volitional effort". Muscle spindles stretch, motor units are appropriately recruited (or if fatigued....not); there's an automatic quality to hip and knee extension. But the bracing in a squat (the upper back isometric contraction and valsalva) is pure, unrelenting intention.

[DirtyRed]

This might be a bit beneath the generally semi-competent squatters here, but EVERY FUCKING JACKASS I see in the gym losing "torso rigidity" or buttwinking on their squats that still don't hit depth are doing it because of their stance being to narrow, their toes being WAY too "forward," or both.

Especially on low bar squats, if the thighs got GTFO out of the way of the abs/gut, the hips can't continue to lower without the spine either becoming more vertical as an entire unit (which is going bring the bar behind the midfoot with low bar), or the lower lumbar has to round/flex in order to continue lowering the hips while the upper spine is stuck on your thighs. Though both tend to happen.

I don't see buttwink NEARLY as often or as severely on people who KEEP THEIR FUCKING KNEES OUT, or "spread the floor" like [REDACTED BY THE IPF] told you to. Stance too narrow and feet not pointed out enough make it much, much harder to keep your knees out.

And I would know what I'm talking about, as I hold an IPF (technically, shut up) record in the squat. Which I don't mention often enough.

[michael]

* I don't think the knee and hip extension in a squat are "volitional effort". Muscle spindles stretch, motor units are appropriately recruited (or if fatigued....not); there's an automatic quality to hip and knee extension. But the bracing in a squat (the upper back isometric contraction and valsalva) is pure, unrelenting intention.

I mostly agree, but I do have to volitionally push my knees out.

[Hanley]

* I don't think the knee and hip extension in a squat are "volitional effort". Muscle spindles stretch, motor units are appropriately recruited (or if fatigued....not); there's an automatic quality to hip and knee extension. But the bracing in a squat (the upper back isometric contraction and valsalva) is pure, unrelenting intention.

I mostly agree, but I do have to volitionally push my knees out.

Yup. Also volitional. I think “corkscrew feet into the ground” actually works much better than “knees out”, though.

[simonrest]

I don't think it's possible to overstate the importance of an absolutely rigid torso. It's also incredibly difficult to coach.

Yeah, I'm struggling. Mostly with not overextending my lumbar. I think I have 3 years of poor squat habit to overcome. Fuck

[Hanley]

I don't think it's possible to overstate the importance of an absolutely rigid torso. It's also incredibly difficult to coach.

Yeah, I'm struggling. Mostly with not overextending my lumbar. I think I have 3 years of poor squat habit to overcome. Fuck

I watched some of your recent squats. I thought they looked really good.

Yeah, you were overextended, but your mechanics just needed a few tweaks...definitely not an overhaul.

[simonrest]

I watched some of your recent squats. I thought they looked really good.

Yeah, you were overextended, but your mechanics just needed a few tweaks...definitely not an overhaul.

Thanks, this is uplifting. I'll keep working at it

[KDW]

For now, I'll simply repeat what I've said before: the 30-50 seconds of trunk bracing in a squat set should rank among the most taxing volitional efforts of your life. Literally. Every time. (I fail at achieving this on almost every set). I think every major breakthrough I've had with press, dead and squat mechanics has started with an ever more rigid torso. In brief: if it helps, replace the oft-repeated "Tight, tight, tight" with "most intense volitional effort of my life*"

Quote of the Thread!

Mike T even says that tightness is strength. If you can get tighter, you've essentially gotten stronger. Finding ways to directly improve this will directly improve your strength.

@simonrest your squat mechanics look sound. I should've said that earlier. Working the spinal position and bracing will have a direct effect on your strength levels and I'm thinking that if you focus on improving the positional issue, you will have some crazy fast gains once your figure it out. Then, it will just be a matter of getting stronger i.e. holding that neutral position tighter and tighter as your continue to train and get stronger over your lifting career.

[simonrest]

Thanks @KDW . you, Hanley, and Gilchrest have said they're ok. I consider that a consensus of elders

[SeanHerbison]

I don't think it's possible to overstate the importance of an absolutely rigid torso. It's also incredibly difficult to coach. I'll try to tease out some cues for 1) upper back isometric contraction and 2) valsalva.

Please do. That's one area I'm always looking for help on, both for doing it myself and for coaching. I feel like I've been stagnant on the tightness front for a while.

Actually, I don't mean just for those. You should write a long post/short novel on all your tightness cues and teaching methods.

[PatrickDB]

@KDW

Do you have any thoughts on how best to fix “chest fall”/“good morning” on the ascent, where the knees and ass shoot back immediately and the torso leans forward?

I’ve been dealing with this forever and can’t find a cue that works for me.

[KDW]

@PatrickDB

How to fix it depends on what is causing it. However, I think most people with this issue can work on one or more things on the following list:
1. Don't squat with excessive anterior pelvic tilt. Get more neutral. (Got this one from Bryce Krawczyk.)
2. Get your elbows down. Try to "pin them to your sides" (Got that one from Austin Baraki.)
3. Try a flat shoe. Many people feel more connected to the ground with a flat shoe. (Got that from my trials and tribulations with the squat.)
4. Slow down your descent and try to feel complete balance through the entire range of motion. (Tempo Squats: Learned these from Jordan F.)
5. Don't cave your knees.
6. Maybe you might be going too deep. (Alan Thrall has a video on this. Going too deep can sometimes lead to the hips back/chest fall feeling.)

There are probably more depending on what the video looks like but I think this list hits a lot of common issues.

[PatrickDB]

@PatrickDB

There are probably more depending on what the video looks like but I think this list hits a lot of common issues.

Thanks for the ideas! I think the part about descending too fast and too loosely definitely applies to me. I’ll play with these tips tomorrow.

[Wilhelm]

Bumping this.
Wondering if anyone else thinks it is a good candidate for being stickied.