2024 POTUS ELECTON

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mikeylikey
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Re: 2024 POTUS ELECTON

#441

Post by mikeylikey » Thu Aug 01, 2024 8:26 am

humorous aside:

https://ultrarightbeer.com/pages/about- ... right-beer

Poe's law in full effect. I sincerely have no idea whether this is satire or serious.

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Re: 2024 POTUS ELECTON

#442

Post by dw » Thu Aug 01, 2024 8:36 am

So in the course of 24 hours we've gone from:

"anyone who thinks anyone of any significance on the left condones looting is a Fox News devouring lunatic"

to...

"yes NPR gave a sympathetic airing to an author promoting her book justifying looting but big deal, she was just a Communist. Lots of people are Communists."


Well it seems that was an educational broadcast after all.


@convergentsum

Whether the publicly funded media organization of a liberal society should be giving a sympathetic viewing to a Communist advocating racial divided looting and rioting within that society, and at a time it is actually experiencing the rioting in question, I don't know.

I just think we should give credit where it is due!

Why let the right get all the recognition for bold and innovative thinking?

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Re: 2024 POTUS ELECTON

#443

Post by Culican » Thu Aug 01, 2024 8:50 am

mikeylikey wrote: Thu Aug 01, 2024 7:59 am Journalistic neutrality is an anachronism of the middle of the last century.
That reminds me of the Mark Twain quote from the late 19th century: “The old saw says, ‘Let a sleeping dog lie.’ Right. Still, when there is much at stake it is better to get a newspaper to do it.”

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Re: 2024 POTUS ELECTON

#444

Post by aurelius » Thu Aug 01, 2024 10:05 am

dw wrote: Thu Aug 01, 2024 8:36 amWhy let the right get all the recognition for bold and innovative thinking?
Fox News knowingly engages in a conspiracy to lie to the general public about election fraud that leads to January 6th. We are all intelligent people here. Attacking the integrity of US elections can lead to outright civil war or even end this experiment we call a nation. Terrible possibilities are still in play.

And Fox News has been lying and fabricating since its inception. NPR interviews one communist with Marxian ideas regarding rioting. Conservative Conclusion: ALL NEWS MEDIA IS THE SAME. This is the dumb false equivalency that was previously brought up.

All conservative media engaged in pushing election fraud claims but they were probably just idiots..

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Re: 2024 POTUS ELECTON

#445

Post by dw » Thu Aug 01, 2024 10:12 am

aurelius wrote: Thu Aug 01, 2024 10:05 am
dw wrote: Thu Aug 01, 2024 8:36 amWhy let the right get all the recognition for bold and innovative thinking?
Fox News knowingly engages in a conspiracy to lie to the general public about election fraud that leads to January 6th. We are all intelligent people here. Attacking the integrity of US elections can lead to outright civil war or even end this experiment we call a nation. Terrible possibilities are still in play.

And Fox News has been lying and fabricating since its inception. NPR interviews one communist with Marxian ideas regarding rioting. Conservative Conclusion: ALL NEWS MEDIA IS THE SAME. This is the dumb false equivalency that was previously brought up.

All conservative media engaged in pushing election fraud claims but they were probably just idiots..

To whom do you attribute this conclusion?

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Re: 2024 POTUS ELECTON

#446

Post by aurelius » Thu Aug 01, 2024 10:20 am

dw wrote: Thu Aug 01, 2024 10:12 amTo whom do you attribute this conclusion?
If I am not reading the message of your post correctly, my bad. I am sharing @AdamSkillin's frustration with the false equivalency that is frequently argued by conservatives in these discussions.

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Re: 2024 POTUS ELECTON

#447

Post by hector » Thu Aug 01, 2024 10:23 am

mikeylikey wrote: Thu Aug 01, 2024 7:39 am If only we had access to the source material instead of a vague recollection by some guy on a weightlifting board (no disrespect)

<5 seconds of work on google, locates transcript of interview in question>

https://www.npr.org/sections/codeswitch ... of-looting

Three points:

1) I am gonna defend NPR here and say that I find this kind of interview refreshing. So the person has a controversial, maybe even outrageous opinion. Is it so bad to just ask them non-rhetorical sincere questions and let them explain themselves for 5 minutes without interrupting every other sentence to argue?

2) This lady actually makes some cogent points with regards to the disingenuousness of the right's rhetoric about the riots:

For example: (questions in bold)
During recent riots, a sentiment I heard a lot was that looters in cities like Minneapolis were hurting their own cause by destroying small businesses in their own neighborhoods, stores owned by immigrants and people of color. What would you say to people who make that argument?

People who made that argument for Minneapolis weren't suddenly celebrating the looters in Chicago, who drove down to the richest part of Chicago, the Magnificent Mile, and attacked places like Tesla and Gucci — because it's not really about that. It's a convenient way of positioning yourself as though you are sympathetic.
I have heard a lot of talk about white anarchists who weren't part of the movement, but they just came in to smash windows and make a ruckus.

It's a classic trope, because it jams up people who might otherwise be sort of sympathetic to looters. There's a reason that Trump has embraced the "white anarchist" line so intensely. It does a double service: It both creates a boogeyman around which you can stir up fear and potential repression, and it also totally erases the Black folks who are at the core of the protests. It makes invisible the Black people who are rising up and who are initiating this movement, who are at its core and its center, and who are doing its most important and valuable organizing and its most dangerous fighting.
These are not bad points. I feel smarter for having read them.

3) She distinguishes between violence against persons (which she condemns) and property (allowable). This person appears to simply be a hardcore communist who believes that private property is theft and therefore looting is not immoral. I don't agree with that, nor do most here I'm sure. But, she also didn't just pull the idea out of her ass yesterday, it's an idea that is grounded in 150~ish years of fairly serious if flawed philosophical argument, so I'd say this is a person who deserves to be debated (and beaten) rather than simply dismissed as a whacko.
If I have only a minute while I’m waiting in line to get a coffee then it is more time efficient for me to provide details allowing anyone interested to easily search for, and find, the article, rather than searching for a link, cutting, and pasting, all from an ancient, dogshit, slow phone.
I’m glad you could easily find the article.

I think you made a great point that divergent voices should be platformed. After reading your comment I agree 100%.

It doesn’t come up so much in the interview, but also essential to this world view is a distinction between “personal” vs “private” property. I think it’s nonsense, but it’s useful if you want to know where they’re coming from.

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Re: 2024 POTUS ELECTON

#448

Post by dw » Thu Aug 01, 2024 10:24 am

aurelius wrote: Thu Aug 01, 2024 10:20 am
dw wrote: Thu Aug 01, 2024 10:12 amTo whom do you attribute this conclusion?
If I am not reading the message of your post correctly, my bad. I am sharing @AdamSkillin's frustration with the false equivalency that is frequently argued by conservatives in these discussions.
I actually wanted to edit out the line you quoted because I thought it might give a somewhat misleading impression (also gilded the lily I thought), but I couldn't bear to risk sullying my post with one of those "edited by xyz" lines.

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Re: 2024 POTUS ELECTON

#449

Post by mikeylikey » Thu Aug 01, 2024 10:35 am

dw wrote: Thu Aug 01, 2024 8:36 am So in the course of 24 hours we've gone from:

"anyone who thinks anyone of any significance on the left condones looting is a Fox News devouring lunatic"
Is this ^^^ supposed to be a distillation of this:
mikeylikey wrote: Wed Jul 31, 2024 8:28 am I haven't heard anybody notable in the public sphere defending violence and looting, nor do I remember it here. I have no interest in trying to prove a negative so that subjective impression will have to stand or fall on its own.

What the left side of the political/media class tends to do when there are riots motivated by causes the left is sympathetic to, is something like "well violence is never acceptable but we also have to understand where these people are coming from and realize they have real grievances." And rarely do they use words like 'riots' or 'looting', instead talking about clashes between protestors or demonstrators and police.

Some people have a hard time holding two conflicting ideas in their minds at the same time, so the above is translated as "tHe WoKe MeDiA LoVeS LoOtiNg".
?

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Re: 2024 POTUS ELECTON

#450

Post by mikeylikey » Thu Aug 01, 2024 11:03 am

hector wrote: Thu Aug 01, 2024 10:23 am
mikeylikey wrote: Thu Aug 01, 2024 7:39 am If only we had access to the source material instead of a vague recollection by some guy on a weightlifting board (no disrespect)
If I have only a minute while I’m waiting in line to get a coffee then it is more time efficient for me to provide details allowing anyone interested to easily search for, and find, the article, rather than searching for a link, cutting, and pasting, all from an ancient, dogshit, slow phone.
I’m glad you could easily find the article.
Image


(I actually wasn't even talking about you, you heard the interview so you were obviously acquainted with the source material - I was referring to everyone else jumping into the argument with all kinds of opinions about what NPR did or did not do without having actually checked out the easily available article)

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Re: 2024 POTUS ELECTON

#451

Post by dw » Thu Aug 01, 2024 11:08 am

mikeylikey wrote: Thu Aug 01, 2024 10:35 am
dw wrote: Thu Aug 01, 2024 8:36 am So in the course of 24 hours we've gone from:

"anyone who thinks anyone of any significance on the left condones looting is a Fox News devouring lunatic"
Is this ^^^ supposed to be a distillation of this:
mikeylikey wrote: Wed Jul 31, 2024 8:28 am I haven't heard anybody notable in the public sphere defending violence and looting, nor do I remember it here. I have no interest in trying to prove a negative so that subjective impression will have to stand or fall on its own.

What the left side of the political/media class tends to do when there are riots motivated by causes the left is sympathetic to, is something like "well violence is never acceptable but we also have to understand where these people are coming from and realize they have real grievances." And rarely do they use words like 'riots' or 'looting', instead talking about clashes between protestors or demonstrators and police.

Some people have a hard time holding two conflicting ideas in their minds at the same time, so the above is translated as "tHe WoKe MeDiA LoVeS LoOtiNg".
?

Oh I'm sorry...did we StOp UsInG HyPeRBoLe?

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Re: 2024 POTUS ELECTON

#452

Post by aurelius » Thu Aug 01, 2024 11:54 am

dw wrote: Thu Aug 01, 2024 11:08 amOh I'm sorry...did we StOp UsInG HyPeRBoLe?
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Re: 2024 POTUS ELECTON

#453

Post by AdamSkillin » Thu Aug 01, 2024 6:01 pm

aurelius wrote: Thu Aug 01, 2024 10:20 am I am sharing @AdamSkillin's frustration with the false equivalency that is frequently argued by conservatives in these discussions.
But NPR did one I guess unadvisable interview once, so all moral high ground is officially ceded. Both sides are exactly the same. Oceania has always been at war with Eastasia.

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Re: 2024 POTUS ELECTON

#454

Post by mikeylikey » Thu Aug 01, 2024 7:13 pm

AdamSkillin wrote: Thu Aug 01, 2024 6:01 pm
aurelius wrote: Thu Aug 01, 2024 10:20 am I am sharing @AdamSkillin's frustration with the false equivalency that is frequently argued by conservatives in these discussions.
But NPR did one I guess unadvisable interview once, so all moral high ground is officially ceded. Both sides are exactly the same. Oceania has always been at war with Eastasia.
Why do you assume it's only conservatives? Why can't it be a sage independent, smugly sitting high above the fray and stroking his beard with the quiet satisfaction that comes from being able to see the code in the matrix?

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Re: 2024 POTUS ELECTON

#455

Post by AdamSkillin » Thu Aug 01, 2024 7:30 pm

mikeylikey wrote: Thu Aug 01, 2024 7:13 pm Why do you assume it's only conservatives? Why can't it be a sage independent, smugly sitting high above the fray and stroking his beard with the quiet satisfaction that comes from being able to see the code in the matrix?
What did I say about conservatives? I'm related to, acquaint myself with, and even consume the televised likeness of plenty of conservatives who I respect the hell out of (earlier in the thread, and the election cycle, I even championed one as a potential VP pick for the prospective democratic nominee, and I even said nice words about him!). I identify as a radical liberal-tarian. I like roads and have mixed feelings about reparations but also I want to be allowed to make my own medical and financial decisions at least mostly unimpeded. Point is putting people in boxes isn't the point. A concerted effort to intentionally deceive the masses (of which I am one. I am a mass) is a thing I think we should all have a problem with. At least those masses among us masses who have some modicum of mental acuity.

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Re: 2024 POTUS ELECTON

#456

Post by mikeylikey » Wed Aug 07, 2024 1:17 pm

mikeylikey wrote: Wed Jul 24, 2024 9:10 am At the end of the day Democrats are going to make the same mistake of not trying to appeal to 70% of the country, but instead appealing ruhlly ruhlly hard to 48% and then getting buthurt when they lose.
Tim Walz as VP is basically this strategy. Or no? Discuss?

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Re: 2024 POTUS ELECTON

#457

Post by EricK » Wed Aug 07, 2024 1:25 pm

mikeylikey wrote: Wed Aug 07, 2024 1:17 pm
mikeylikey wrote: Wed Jul 24, 2024 9:10 am At the end of the day Democrats are going to make the same mistake of not trying to appeal to 70% of the country, but instead appealing ruhlly ruhlly hard to 48% and then getting buthurt when they lose.
Tim Walz as VP is basically this strategy. Or no? Discuss?
In that he doesn't appeal to 70% of the country? Is that the case? (Serious question; I don't get people.)

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Re: 2024 POTUS ELECTON

#458

Post by aurelius » Wed Aug 07, 2024 2:45 pm

mikeylikey wrote: Wed Aug 07, 2024 1:17 pmTim Walz as VP is basically this strategy. Or no? Discuss?
I don't really know who Tim Walz is. Apparently he likes to repair stuff? I'm kind of neutral on repairing stuff.

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Re: 2024 POTUS ELECTON

#459

Post by DanCR » Wed Aug 07, 2024 5:32 pm

mikeylikey wrote: Wed Aug 07, 2024 1:17 pm
mikeylikey wrote: Wed Jul 24, 2024 9:10 am At the end of the day Democrats are going to make the same mistake of not trying to appeal to 70% of the country, but instead appealing ruhlly ruhlly hard to 48% and then getting buthurt when they lose.
Tim Walz as VP is basically this strategy. Or no? Discuss?
His record perhaps may appeal to 48% in some senses, but I think that the bet is that he the person appeals to 70%. Whether that will turn out to be accurate, who knows.

Relatedly, Harris' people need to stfu and stop talking to the media off the record about Shapiro being kind of a dick. It reeks of her clownish 2020 primary campaign. I don't know if they think they're countering the idiot GOP narrative that she chose Walz because Shapiro is Jewish, or if they're just overly enamored with attention from reporters. Either way, shut up.

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Re: 2024 POTUS ELECTON

#460

Post by hector » Wed Aug 07, 2024 8:01 pm

DanCR wrote: Wed Aug 07, 2024 5:32 pm
mikeylikey wrote: Wed Aug 07, 2024 1:17 pm
mikeylikey wrote: Wed Jul 24, 2024 9:10 am At the end of the day Democrats are going to make the same mistake of not trying to appeal to 70% of the country, but instead appealing ruhlly ruhlly hard to 48% and then getting buthurt when they lose.
Tim Walz as VP is basically this strategy. Or no? Discuss?
His record perhaps may appeal to 48% in some senses, but I think that the bet is that he the person appeals to 70%. Whether that will turn out to be accurate, who knows.

Relatedly, Harris' people need to stfu and stop talking to the media off the record about Shapiro being kind of a dick. It reeks of her clownish 2020 primary campaign. I don't know if they think they're countering the idiot GOP narrative that she chose Walz because Shapiro is Jewish, or if they're just overly enamored with attention from reporters. Either way, shut up.
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There is a fuck ton to like and respect here. I reserve my right to adjust opinion as more information becomes available, and I’m obviously not a fan of his narrow idea of free speech, but nobody’s perfect.

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