#47 Celebration Thread

[aurelius]

You know who else had 4 minority judges writing non-binding dissents on his behalf that it made more sense to rule based on the obvious intent of the parties than to prolong the litigation on procedural grounds...

Do not pass go. Do not collect $200 dollars.

For very good reasons judges can only rule on the matter in front of them. The Trump administration appealed an order to the court then tried to argue a different order. The court ruled on the appeal actually in front of it. 100% correct.

This is the DOJ. Not some befuddled country lawyer. I believe they fully did what they intended. Because if they appealed the original order SCOTUS would have let it play out it the appellate courts. Which would have found against the legality of Trump's actions. Making it more likely SCOTUS would also rule against the government.
Instead, the DOJ appealed the enforcement of the original order using an emergency appeal to go directly to SCOTUS then tried to backdoor SCOTUS into invalidating the original order. NOPE.

[mikeylikey]

You know who else had 4 minority judges writing non-binding dissents on his behalf that it made more sense to rule based on the obvious intent of the parties than to prolong the litigation on procedural grounds...

Do not pass go. Do not collect $200 dollars.

For very good reasons judges can only rule on the matter in front of them. The Trump administration appealed an to the court then tried to argue a different order. The court ruled on the appeal actually in front of it. 100% correct.

yeah yeah. you're no fun.

[aurelius]

yeah yeah. you're no fun.

Was the answer Hitler?

[mikeylikey]

yeah yeah. you're no fun.

Was the answer Hitler?

At least he knew how to have fun.

[Brackish]

We can't afford to fund disability payments for every discharged Marine.

It goes further. Look at the public school systems. School's push to have every child they can classified with some kind of disability. They get more money from the State for each child with a disability AND the child does not have to meet the general education requirements. Resulting in high school graduates with ADHD who can't read, write, or perform grade school level mathematics.

We are going to be working forever because the generation graduating school now are worthless. AI NEEDS to takeover.

I can't speak for every state, but I can speak for my own, and I think you have fundamental a misunderstanding of how these things actually work.

There are very, very strict requirements that must be met in order to diagnose a child with an educational disability. It involves multiple, standardized assessments and a team decision. That team is made up of school based personnel as well as the parents. The school cannot diagnose the student with an educational disability or provide any services without the parent/guardian's consent to do so. Nobody in public education is pushing special education services on students that don't need them. In fact, the opposite is true. School systems will often try to avoid diagnosing a student with an educational disability because then they are required by federal law to provide that student with services above and beyond what is required in the general education setting.

There is no increased funding from the state government to support the implementation of IEPs (Individualized Educational Plan). That money actually comes from the federal government and is then doled out by the states. That funding is mandated by IDEA (Individuals with Disabilities Education Act), which is federal law.

Simply being diagnosed with an education disability and having an IEP does not exempt a student, in any way shape or form from meeting the "general education requirements". They are held to the same standards and must pass the same tests as their general education peers in order to graduate from high school. There are special cases where students with severe and profound disabilities are exempt from meeting those requirements, but those are very, very rare (10% of IEP carriers in a school with 10% of the students being IEP carriers). These students are often non-verbal, incapable of self-care, etc. A student with ADHD will never meet the criteria that need to be met in order to be included in that group.

I'm usually just a lurker, but I figured I would toss in my own two cents when I saw this come up because it's what I've done for a living for the past 20 years.

[mikeylikey]

Nobody in public education is pushing special education services on students that don't need them. In fact, the opposite is true. School systems will often try to avoid diagnosing a student with an educational disability because then they are required by federal law to provide that student with services above and beyond what is required in the general education setting.

N=1, but this is in directly alignment with my experience as a parent. My son has dyslexia (physician diagnosed, not my opinion) and by end of first / start of 2nd grade was very far behind in both math and reading. School was extremely resistant to putting him on IEP, suggesting instead to just hold him back a year. I suspect but cannot prove that they preferred this because he would be less likely to drag down their state testing scores if he repeated.

We were insistent, they relented and let him stay in the correct grade with an IEP, and by 4th grade he was testing above averages in all categories and getting all As and Bs. This was in an extremely affluent suburban school district. For what that is worth.

The IEP does not exempt him from any requirements.

[5hout]

The IEP does not exempt him from any requirements.

An IEP can (but does not have to) have modifications in addition to accommodations. A modification is a change in what your child is taught, and (generally/nuance/blahblahblah/state variation) exempts them from standard standardized testing or means they take an alternate test or their scores are counted differently.
A 504 (like an IEP and often conflated) does not (almost always) have modifications, only accommodations (in theory, in practice schools do whatever the frick they want/have time and funds for of course).

I have heard, anecdotally via dadgroup, that while most schools actively resist IEPs/504s b/c they don't want the costs, some people have experienced the school (once they are forced into accepting an IEP or a 504) pushing for modifications, even when wildly inappropriate. The logic kind of checks out, once you're doing an accommodation (if you have a worry about scores) you might as well get a modification.

Under (my understanding) a now-repealed/amended provision of NCLB this was very different and schools were getting fucking hammered in their scores for being good at providing services to special needs kids.

I think, modest confidence, there's also some different handling of this if you school of choice your special needs kid subject to the specific school of choice special needs provisions.

[mikeylikey]

The IEP does not exempt him from any requirements.

An IEP can (but does not have to) have modifications in addition to accommodations.

That's why I said N=1.

[5hout]

The IEP does not exempt him from any requirements.

An IEP can (but does not have to) have modifications in addition to accommodations.

That's why I said N=1.

For sure, just meant to follow on for people that haven't had the "joy" of interacting with this system as a student or parent.

[aurelius]

I can't speak for every state, but I can speak for my own, and I think you have fundamental a misunderstanding of how these things actually work.

I'm usually just a lurker, but I figured I would toss in my own two cents when I saw this come up because it's what I've done for a living for the past 20 years.

Over the past 40 years the number of students classified as special education has doubled. The human species has not evolved in that time span to produce double the number of disabled students. IDEA estimates that 15% of all students currently enrolled in public schools are classified as disabled.

I think the process is what you describe. I don't think it is the road block you make it out to be. Maybe at your school. My second hand experience of watching my ex (a special ed teacher) that worked in a school that actively pushed these things because they receive more funding from the State. She taught seniors in high school that were not literate (so called intervention classes). Yes, these were US citizens that had been in the K-12 system their entire lives.

It is kind of a self-fulfilling prophecy. Identify a kid that is underperforming. Classify as disadvantaged. Put them in remedial classes. Their performance worsens. Continue to reclassify and make modifications. The school is happy to receive the additional revenue for that kid, teach them nothing, then push them out the door at 19. She spent more time filling out paperwork documenting this nonsense then teaching.

Look at the literacy rates over the years. How do we explain that the modern US education system produces a worse result than the little house on the Prairie system of the late 1800's/early 1900's. I don't blame teachers by the way. It is parent's and the entire education system's fault.

[mikeylikey]

. Maybe at your school.

I suppose that's the thing about personal experience... it's N=1. There's also N=2, N=3, n=4.... all the other N's.

[aurelius]

I suppose that's the thing about personal experience... it's N=1. There's also N=2, N=3, n=4.... all the other N's.

Even in your case, the school's solution was to game the system. You had to fight for what was right. Your son will have a more difficult road to walk than most. But he has to learn to walk it now while it's easy and the repercussions are insignificant. The work force isn't going to make accommodations. The work force will demand results.

I imagine your son's improved performance had more to do with you and your wife's efforts than the school's. Which is as it should be. Thanks for taking ownership. And good on your son.

[mikeylikey]

Over the past 40 years the number of students classified as special education has doubled. The human species has not evolved in that time span to produce double the number of disabled students. They now estimate 15% of all students are classified as disabled.

OR:
Over the past 40 years, the education system has also become more controlled, top-down, regulated, quantified, etc.

As a result, I would speculate that 40 years ago, the less severely "neurodiverse" students were often simply been handled by teachers using their personal expertise and judgement to accommodate individual students needs, things that must now be handled through one or another form of Special Waiver because everything has to satisfy 500 federal protocols.

That is fucking retarded.

I see what you did there.

[aurelius]

OR:
Over the past 40 years, the education system has also become more controlled, top-down, regulated, quantified, etc.

As a result, I would speculate that 40 years ago, the less severely "neurodiverse" students were often simply been handled by teachers using their personal expertise and judgement to accommodate individual students needs, things that must now be handled through one or another form of Special Waiver because everything has to satisfy 500 federal protocols.

I think we are in agreement. We as as a society have lowered the bar on what it means to be disabled and created all of these accommodations. I would also add the parental rights movement and idea it is the school's fault if kids fail versus it is the kid's and parent's failure also greatly hinders the school's ability to teach.

The truth is simple: some people just have to work harder. It isn't fair but that is life.

I see what you did there.

I appreciate that. I removed it. It was unnecessary. Not intended to be offensive but some would read it as such.

[Brackish]

I can't speak for every state, but I can speak for my own, and I think you have fundamental a misunderstanding of how these things actually work.

I'm usually just a lurker, but I figured I would toss in my own two cents when I saw this come up because it's what I've done for a living for the past 20 years.

Over the past 40 years the number of students classified as special education has doubled. The human species has not evolved in that time span to produce double the number of disabled students. IDEA estimates that 15% of all students currently enrolled in public schools are classified as disabled.

I think the process is what you describe. I don't think it is the road block you make it out to be. Maybe at your school. My second hand experience of watching my ex (a special ed teacher) that worked in a school that actively pushed these things because they receive more funding from the State. She taught seniors in high school that were not literate (so called intervention classes). Yes, these were US citizens that had been in the K-12 system their entire lives.

It is kind of a self-fulfilling prophecy. Identify a kid that is underperforming. Classify as disadvantaged. Put them in remedial classes. Their performance worsens. Continue to reclassify and make modifications. The school is happy to receive the additional revenue for that kid, teach them nothing, then push them out the door at 19. She spent more time filling out paperwork documenting this nonsense then teaching.

Look at the literacy rates over the years. How do we explain that the modern US education system produces a worse result than the little house on the Prairie system of the late 1800's/early 1900's. I don't blame teachers by the way. It is parent's and the entire education system's fault.

ASD and ADHD weren't even recognized as a disability until the 1990s. They added two new categories that never existed before. That's going to mess with the data a little bit...

The second bolded bit is illegal, just as an FYI. You can't change a student's least restrictive environment (LRE) without tons of data, including data proving you provided and implemented, with fidelity, research-based interventions to address their specific deficits and that those interventions did not work.

[aurelius]

ASD and ADHD weren't even recognized as a disability until the 1990s. They added two new categories that never existed before. That's going to mess with the data a little bit...

The second bolded bit is illegal, just as an FYI. You can't change a student's least restrictive environment (LRE) without tons of data, including data proving you provided and implemented, with fidelity, research-based interventions to address their specific deficits and that those interventions did not work.

Kind of my point.

The underlined is the paperwork I referred to. She had to fill it out weekly for every kid what interventions were used and so forth. Had to document so many hours were spent with each kid to meet the State/Federal requirements to receive funding (which in turn justified her position). It was all stock nonsense she copy and pasted (now ChatGPT does the heavy lifting). She did a lot of this at home after hours until one of the administrators said just do it during her normal teaching hours (meaning she wasn't in the classroom teaching). Which of course makes it impossible for to actually spend the required hours with the students. Forget that she already had more students assigned to her than she could possibly meet the hour requirements in the first place. But she got tired of working unpaid overtime and now takes 1 to 2 periods a day to do the paperwork. So there you our wonderful education system. Kids not being taught by teachers not teaching with documentation that shows everything is going according to plan. All starting with good intentions codified into law, monetized to incentivize, and then gamed.

I think you are arguing for the intent behind the system and that is your experience. I'm actually happy to hear there are school's who are doing it right. For a moment consider the incentives are aligned such that schools can get greater revenue while removing their worst performing/problematic students from testing requirements. Also, consider that not ALL schools are public schools. There are a lot charter schools and profit is a definite motive. So if they can keep a kid an extra year or two AND receive additional monies for that kid...bingo bango. It's like the privatization of the prison system. Recidivism INCREASED. Well no shit.

[GlasgowJock]

Over the past 40 years the number of students classified as special education has doubled. The human species has not evolved in that time span to produce double the number of disabled students. IDEA estimates that 15% of all students currently enrolled in public schools are classified as disabled.

I know we're wildly digressing from the thread subject matter though check out Scotland (I'd posit figures are similar for rUK):

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c0q1wyeevvgo

'Audit Scotland found around 40% of Scottish pupils are now receiving additional support for learning (ASL).

The definition of additional support needs is broad - it can include emotional or behavioural issues, autism, disabilities, dyslexia and language support needs.'

Parents receive fiscal benefits/ entitlements from the government if their kid is formally diagnosed with ASN. I'm not saying such a system 'incentivises' parents to seek such diagnoses, but, yanno, 'free money' while abrogating parental responsibility because 'wee Jimmy' has an Oppositional Defiance Disorder, ACEs/ PTSD (because daddy shouted at them once not to stick their fingers in plug sockets) or ASD...

Our future indigenous potential workforce is fcuked, and yet people scratch their heads wondering why we're importing 'economic units' from abroad via legal migration (in tandem with other metrics), or why we can't sustain recruiting for our Armed Forces to defend the nation.

[AdamSkillin]

Here's some investigation into the alleged "Savings" DOGE has claimed:

https://www.nytimes.com/2025/03/13/upsh ... =url-share

In other 47th President Musk news, anyone here got a Cybertruck?

https://www.roadandtrack.com/news/a6418 ... -bodywork/

[hector]

Here's some investigation into the alleged "Savings" DOGE has claimed:

https://www.nytimes.com/2025/03/13/upsh ... =url-share

DOGE is all lies. Nothing but.

The group started the “wall of receipts” with an application programming interface, a system that enables outsiders to easily download and scrutinize its data. A week later, it shifted from publishing its savings data on the internet in this easily scraped format to a new format that was harder for outsiders to access.
Last week, the group posted for the first time a list of grants it says it has canceled, with no outward-facing information that could identify each grant or assess the accuracy of the claimed savings. Such information was contained in the hidden metadata on its website. But the next day, that metadata was removed, too.

The group has also repeatedly altered data without changing the “last updated” time stamp on the site. (Another error: That time stamp currently says March 11, although the most recent update occurred late on the 12th.)

[mikeylikey]

https://www.roadandtrack.com/news/a6418 ... -bodywork/

Alright, I gotta defend the Cybertruck a little bit.

Is it ugly? Survey Says: yes.
Is it pointless? Probably
Does it have a lot of teething problems? Based on media reports, yes... though, it's probably the most scrutinized new vehicle in awhile so big grain of salt.

But at least it's different. Nobody takes risks anymore. Good on Tesla for trying something. Jury is out on this one, but at least it's different.

Here's James May's take on the Cybertruuuuuck