USSF Strengthlifting Challenge - Anyone competing?

[Root]

I've done one USSF meet and two USAPL. I like USSF better.

The downsides to USAPL:
- Platform commands
- They made a fuss about my shoes; my knockoff chucks were not acceptable and I had to buy real chucks.
- Two-hour weigh ins are such a tease.
- I got red-lighted for a thumbs around grip on squats.

Downsides to USSF:
- Must fly to meets
- Fewer available categories to place in, bad for my ego

Red lighted for thumbs around grip? Please explain

[platypus]

Red lighted for thumbs around grip? Please explain

Maybe thumbs over is the correct term. The grip where the thumbs are next to the fingers, instead of on the opposite side of the bar.

Edit: false grip, that's what it's called.

[Root]

I've done one USSF meet and two USAPL. I like USSF better.

The downsides to USAPL:
- Platform commands
- They made a fuss about my shoes; my knockoff chucks were not acceptable and I had to buy real chucks.
- Two-hour weigh ins are such a tease.
- I got red-lighted for a thumbs around grip on squats.

Downsides to USSF:
- Must fly to meets
- Fewer available categories to place in, bad for my ego

Red lighted for thumbs around grip? Please explain

Shit, really? I didn't see that in the rules

[Wilhelm]

Thumbs over is not prohibited by USAPL or IPF.
(I used thumbs over in my USAPL meet. All white lights.)

Mike T -

[platypus]

Shit, really? I didn't see that in the rules

Yeah, it's not against the rules. I mentioned that to the judge, and I also mentioned that the USAPL Lifter's Handbook specifically says it's allowed, but she said it was a safety issue. I should've argued, but instead I just used a thumbs-opposite grip for my second and third attempts. Next time if I get the same judges I'll start naming some IPF lifters who use the false grip for squats and see if that helps.

The real problem isn't really specifically what I got red-lighted for; it's the fact that I can get red lighted for stuff that's not in the rules.

[Wilhelm]

Shit, really? I didn't see that in the rules

Yeah, it's not against the rules. I mentioned that to the judge, and I also mentioned that the USAPL Lifter's Handbook specifically says it's allowed, but she said it was a safety issue. I should've argued, but instead I just used a thumbs-opposite grip for my second and third attempts. Next time if I get the same judges I'll start naming some IPF lifters who use the false grip for squats and see if that helps.

The real problem isn't really specifically what I got red-lighted for; it's the fact that I can get red lighted for stuff that's not in the rules.

I would venture to say that's a problem with the Ref at your meet, and not the USAPL per se.
Actually, you should have been told to rerack and not been given the squat command. In either case, even in the case of the ref's incorrect interpretation of the grip rule.
Especially if "safety" was the refs reason. Fail on top of fail.
Bad ref.
If all four fingers on each hand fingers were indeed gripping the bar, bad call by the ref. And again, the squat command should not have been given if the ref thought you were in an incorrect starting position.
From the rulebook -
"For reasons of safety the lifter will be requested to “Replace” the bar, together with a backward movement of the arm, if after a period of five seconds he is not in the correct position to begin the lift. The Chief Referee will then convey the reason why the signal was not given."


The shoes thing as well.
As long as they were in good repair, and met the other requirements/specifications.
There is a rule about that.

[platypus]

I would venture to say that's a problem with the Ref at your meet, and not the USAPL per se.

The shoes thing as well.
As long as they were in good repair, and met the other requirements/specifications.
There is a rule about that.

The shoes thing and the false grip squatting thing were at different meets in different states. Different judges and all. I realize two meets isn't enough to base an opinion on, but my impression so far is that the judges can arbitrarily make up rules. Like no false grip and no off-brand converse shoes. Maybe the USAPL is normally better and I'm just unlucky.

[Wilhelm]

I would venture to say that's a problem with the Ref at your meet, and not the USAPL per se.

The shoes thing as well.
As long as they were in good repair, and met the other requirements/specifications.
There is a rule about that.

The shoes thing and the false grip squatting thing were at different meets in different states. Different judges and all. I realize two meets isn't enough to base an opinion on, but my impression so far is that the judges can arbitrarily make up rules. Like no false grip and no off-brand converse shoes. Maybe the USAPL is normally better and I'm just unlucky.

They are not supposed to give the squat command if you are not in a "safe" i.e. correct starting position.
Even if they have made up or have an incorrect interpretation of the rule, they then have failed to follow another rule by giving the squat command.
They should be reported, imo.

At my meet, i did raise my hand during the breifing to be sure about the grip.
He stated it exactly as written, and agreed whan i asked about thumbs over.

Just no pinkies being raised drinking tea is how he put it.
He was English, btw.

[Root]

So I guess having a couple fingers on the collars would get me red lighted?

[Wilhelm]

So I guess having a couple fingers on the collars would get me red lighted?

I'll look, but iirc, you are allowed to touch the collars.

brb.

*
Squat
1. The lifter shall face the front of the platform. The bar shall be held horizontally across the shoulders, hands and fingers gripping the bar. The hands may be positioned anywhere on the bar inside and or in contact with the inner collars


**Oh, you are saying "over" the collars.
Yeah. No squat command should be given in that case.

"For reasons of safety the lifter will be requested to “Replace” the bar, together with a backward movement of the arm, if after a period of five seconds he is not in the correct position to begin the lift. The Chief Referee will then convey the reason why the signal was not given."

[Root]

It doesn't say that all fingers have to be gripping the bar. I wonder if I could put my pinkies under the bar. Probably not.

All the things that alleviate my elbow pain are illegal. WTF.

[Wilhelm]

It doesn't say that all fingers have to be gripping the bar. I wonder if I could put my pinkies under the bar. Probably not.

All the things that alleviate my elbow pain are illegal. WTF.

Squat
1. The lifter shall face the front of the platform. The bar shall be held horizontally across the shoulders, hands and fingers gripping the bar. The hands may be positioned anywhere on the bar inside and or in contact with the inner collars


If you only had three fingers on a hand...

[Wilhelm]

I am going to be sure and clarify what the ref expects on this at all future meets after reading platypus' experience.

I'm glad i asked this last time, but he didn't hesitate to agree that thumbs over was fine as long as no fingers weren't wrapped around the bar.

[SeanHerbison]

Yeah, it's not against the rules. I mentioned that to the judge, and I also mentioned that the USAPL Lifter's Handbook specifically says it's allowed, but she said it was a safety issue. I should've argued, but instead I just used a thumbs-opposite grip for my second and third attempts. Next time if I get the same judges I'll start naming some IPF lifters who use the false grip for squats and see if that helps.

I am going to be sure and clarify what the ref expects on this at all future meets after reading platypus' experience.

Yeah, this shouldn't be an issue, but it is. I had the same experience here. Not at a USAPL meet (never been an issue there), but with USAPL-certified judges and (supposedly) USAPL rules. They didn't tell us until we were getting the brief during warm-ups, so for that meet I just put the thumb under, though I'm pretty sure that's what threw me off just enough to miss my third squat.

Second meet, about a month and a half later, I saw that we had the same judges and argued the point well before the meet started. Took me half an hour, but I eventually convinced them that it's a legal grip.

[rant] Of course, these are the same refs that allowed knee wraps at the last minute, even though we were following USAPL raw rules. I've got another meet coming up, same judges again, and despite specifically asking the meet organizer if knee wraps would be allowed and getting a definite negative:

Knee wraps will not be allowed only the standard knee sleeves. They will not be allowed last minute even though they might have been previously.

I then got an email the next day:

I apologize for the change of plans, after speaking with the judges we have decided that knee wraps ARE allowed. Because most of the competitors are active duty military safety is first and most important!!

Ah, yeah, safety. Because it's USAPL that has all the sudden knee injuries. [/rant]

I won't be training with knee wraps anyway, though, because I've got a bigger meet 6 days prior that's IPF rules, and I'm focusing my training on doing well at that one.

[Manveer]

Not knowing the rules is common. Happened at Strengthlifting meets and a USAPL meet that I did. Basically at every meet I’ve done so far.

[SeanHerbison]

Not knowing the rules is common. Happened at Strengthlifting meets and a USAPL meet that I did. Basically at every meet I’ve done so far.

Which is fine for the lifters, but not for the people judging said rules.

[Manveer]

Not knowing the rules is common. Happened at Strengthlifting meets and a USAPL meet that I did. Basically at every meet I’ve done so far.

Which is fine for the lifters, but not for the people judging said rules.

Yeah, I meant the judges/meet coordinators. It’s not ok, but it is common.