Exodus Strength

Root wrote: ↑Fri Oct 09, 2020 10:41 am Lots of chatter in my FB bubble about how it's racist to call them a "militia" instead of "terrorists" or "gang."

Am I racist if I think that a militia is fundamentally different from a terrorist group?

To me that seems like Anti-Racists silliness.

Militias as a concept and a phenomenon are of course a real thing. And some of the right-wing groups in question do call themselves militias, do at least superficially comport themselves as a military force, and do seem to be organized for political motives rather than profit.

To top it all off I believe some of the black militant groups of the 70s did call themselves militias and were not referred to as gangs.

IDK .... the word "militia" is getting redefined to mean something we're all seeing ...but that's not a "militia".

mi·li·tia
/məˈliSHə/
Learn to pronounce
noun
a military force that is raised from the civil population to supplement a regular army in an emergency

The army is essentially an arm the government.

The the title, "antigovernment militia" seems like an oxymoron then.

Those dudes seemed like anarchists.
Sure, call them terrorists.....seems like labelling them as militias has some alternate purpose.

mbasic wrote: ↑Fri Oct 09, 2020 2:59 pm IDK .... the word "militia" is getting redefined to mean something we're all seeing ...but that's not a "militia".

mi·li·tia
/məˈliSHə/
Learn to pronounce
noun
a military force that is raised from the civil population to supplement a regular army in an emergency

The army is essentially an arm the government.

The the title, "antigovernment militia" seems like an oxymoron then.

Those dudes seemed like anarchists.
Sure, call them terrorists.....seems like labelling them as militias has some alternate purpose.

I think trying to argue strict textbook definitions of the word "militia" went out the window a couple of decades ago. There are tons of these groups who explicitly call themselves "militias" while being openly anti-government.

TimK wrote: ↑Fri Oct 09, 2020 3:12 pm

mbasic wrote: ↑Fri Oct 09, 2020 2:59 pm IDK .... the word "militia" is getting redefined to mean something we're all seeing ...but that's not a "militia".

mi·li·tia
/məˈliSHə/
Learn to pronounce
noun
a military force that is raised from the civil population to supplement a regular army in an emergency

The army is essentially an arm the government.

The the title, "antigovernment militia" seems like an oxymoron then.

Those dudes seemed like anarchists.
Sure, call them terrorists.....seems like labelling them as militias has some alternate purpose.

I think trying to argue strict textbook definitions of the word "militia" went out the window a couple of decades ago. There are tons of these groups who explicitly call themselves "militias" while being openly anti-government.

I would prefer to see "terrorist" reserved as a term for those who target civilians as a strategy. McVeigh was a terrorist because he bombed a daycare facility and a bunch of low level federal bureaucrats. Kidnapping a governor is an appropriate act of war (if you are in a war), so rebel militia is probably the more accurate term, although gang also covers it.

Philbert wrote: ↑Fri Oct 09, 2020 6:45 pm I would prefer to see "terrorist" reserved as a term for those who target civilians as a strategy. McVeigh was a terrorist because he bombed a daycare facility and a bunch of low level federal bureaucrats. Kidnapping a governor is an appropriate act of war (if you are in a war), so rebel militia is probably the more accurate term, although gang also covers it.

They are most likely just as concerned about their right to carry firearms as the old patriot militias and might be additionally anticipating infringement of an interpretation of constitutional rights and/or paranoid about an impending civil war or „race war“. It’s hard to identify any group or even an individual‘s thought structure or organization from reports. Kidnapping a democratic governor and putting them on trial for violating the Bill of Rights while having support and encouragement from the president puts them in the category of what we see in countries of South America and Syria. Rather than „anti-government“, Let’s call them a pro-regime paramilitary force.

TimK wrote: ↑Fri Oct 09, 2020 3:12 pm

mbasic wrote: ↑Fri Oct 09, 2020 2:59 pm IDK .... the word "militia" is getting redefined to mean something we're all seeing ...but that's not a "militia".

mi·li·tia
/məˈliSHə/
Learn to pronounce
noun
a military force that is raised from the civil population to supplement a regular army in an emergency

The army is essentially an arm the government.

The the title, "antigovernment militia" seems like an oxymoron then.

Those dudes seemed like anarchists.
Sure, call them terrorists.....seems like labelling them as militias has some alternate purpose.

I think trying to argue strict textbook definitions of the word "militia" went out the window a couple of decades ago. There are tons of these groups who explicitly call themselves "militias" while being openly anti-government.

They're anti to the current government.
They're a military supplement to the government they want to see installed.
I think cases could be made here for militia, terrorist, as well as insurgent.

So, kinda led and organized by the government.

https://reason.com/2022/01/26/gretchen- ... fbi-trial/

Cellist wrote: ↑Thu Jan 27, 2022 1:43 pm So, kinda led and organized by the government.

https://reason.com/2022/01/26/gretchen- ... fbi-trial/

I must admit my faith and trust in the government is absolutely shaken by these revelations

mouse wrote: ↑Thu Jan 27, 2022 1:46 pm

Cellist wrote: ↑Thu Jan 27, 2022 1:43 pm So, kinda led and organized by the government.

https://reason.com/2022/01/26/gretchen- ... fbi-trial/

I must admit my faith and trust in the government is absolutely shaken by these revelations

Bro they have been doing shit like this since the 60's. Ever looked into the MLK assassination?

However that was more of a Gov patsy type thing.

The Gov has done some very questionable things. Be careful what you say online and to who. One of the Proud Boy founders is a confirmed Gov snitch for F sake. I don't even know why dummies think it is a good idea to join these groups. They are by far not paranoid enough!

I'm drawing a blank on which shooting it was, but in one of the synagogue shootings an FBI agent drove the shooter to the synagogue and dropped him off. Later they claimed they didn't know he was going to do anything that day.

zappey1 wrote: ↑Thu Jan 27, 2022 2:03 pm

mouse wrote: ↑Thu Jan 27, 2022 1:46 pm

Cellist wrote: ↑Thu Jan 27, 2022 1:43 pm So, kinda led and organized by the government.

https://reason.com/2022/01/26/gretchen- ... fbi-trial/

I must admit my faith and trust in the government is absolutely shaken by these revelations

Bro they have been doing shit like this since the 60's. Ever looked into the MLK assassination?

However that was more of a Gov patsy type thing.

The Gov has done some very questionable things. Be careful what you say online and to who. One of the Proud Boy founders is a confirmed Gov snitch for F sake. I don't even know why dummies think it is a good idea to join these groups. They are by far not paranoid enough!

Have you EVER read any of my not training related posts on here?

Lol

zappey1 wrote: ↑Thu Jan 27, 2022 2:03 pm The Gov has done some very questionable things.

Oh come on now.

There might be the rare bad apple, but surely the government - at large - hasn't done questionable things.

aurelius wrote: ↑Thu Oct 08, 2020 7:56 pm I have thought for some time many of these militias are serious threats. It is gonna take one of them pulling off an attack for people to take them seriously.

I recommend reading Bring The War Home by Kathleen Belew.

No entrapment and guilty plea:

“the kidnapping plan was driven solely by the men charged in the conspiracy, and not by any law enforcement officer or informant? ‘Yes,’ Franks said.
Shortly after 10 a.m., Green asked Franks to enter his plea.

‘Guilty,’ Franks said.“

Cellist wrote: ↑Fri Feb 18, 2022 1:42 am No entrapment and guilty plea:

“the kidnapping plan was driven solely by the men charged in the conspiracy, and not by any law enforcement officer or informant? ‘Yes,’ Franks said.
Shortly after 10 a.m., Green asked Franks to enter his plea.

‘Guilty,’ Franks said.“

Man facing lifetime sentence vs ~6 years (out in 4 afaik) (what other guilty plea person got) pleads guilty vs facing risk at trial? Certainly his answers are honest and not at all compelled. Entrapment is, under current law, almost impossible to win on. Even if he won on appeal he might well have spent more time in prison waiting on his appeal than he'll serve if he gets the same as the other guy. These statements carry 0 weight on "was it entrapment or not".