Need some input... family cabin, in law issues

[aurelius]

@Oldandfat You say somebody should stand up to Jeff. Somebody did. Your daughter. That is how it is done. She drew clear lines on what is acceptable and not then followed through. Jeff ends up looking like a spoiled asshat. If your daughter had instead given Jeff a piece of her mind, she'd be the bad guy and Jeff would be sympathetic.

You don't have Jeff problem. Jeff is only a problem because your wife makes him one. You have a wife problem. She enables him and wants to continue with the status quo. You feel like you are being forced to enable Jeff by your wife. You have understandable frustration and resentment building. You are expressing it at Jeff but do not kid yourself. You have these feelings for your wife as well.

It is also clear that you cannot abide enabling Jeff. So don't. Your daughter is right: contribute what you want to contribute and let that be that. If you want to contribute nothing then contribute nothing. This need to tell Jeff that he is a piece of shit is about you. You are the problem there. That is about you establishing dominance. And the only thing you will accomplish is making your wife angry at you.

What is clear to me as an outsider is this situation as is will ruin your relationship with your wife. It isn't about Jeff. It is about your relationship with your wife. I'd sit down and have a real clear and honest conversation with her. Communicate that you can't enable Jeff. And the only way to stop enabling Jeff is to stop enabling Jeff. If she wants to contribute to the cabin with her resources, then that is her choice. But you have to draw the line in the sand and say no. Express you have no issues being cordial with Jeff at family functions but other than that, you won't no involvement. I'd suggest writing down what you want to say. Read her the complete statement. And let her respond without interruption. Try to listen. I'm not good at that. Then maybe take or day or two to respond. This is pretty important to get right. And it is very easy to allow the frustration and resentment you are feeling to take over.

You have tried with Jeff for years. You and Jeff are not going to work it out. You no longer want to enable Jeff in anyway. That is a reasonable position. And the cabin forces you to do so. So you can't do the cabin. Period. End of Story. This thread is 11 pages in on how you don't want to do the cabin. So free therapy here: DON'T DO THE CABIN. Your mental health and the health of your marriage long-term will greatly benefit.

*I remember an earlier post where you stated your finances are mingled...well it is time to separate them and clearly define financial responsibilities. Which is never a bad thing in partnership.

[aurelius]

@Oldandfat To give you personal insight into my life: I am dating a woman who is genuinely nice. In my experience that is hard to find. People are mean. She tolerates my quarks. Even seems mostly amused by me. I care for her very much. She has legal issues from before I met her involving a DUI and marijuana possession. At times, she makes reckless decisions and is very passive in her life. This has cost her. She is getting the opportunity for a second chance but has to jump through all the hoops the Court has set before her.

I had a discussion with her where I drew my line in the sand. I told her that if she did not complete the terms of her agreement, I'd end the relationship. That I would not help her meet the terms of her agreement (keep track of court dates, various counseling, community service, and so on). She had to do that for herself. I need a partner in my life whom I can trust and count on to take care of their business.

Now this was very tough to say to her and will be harder to follow through on. But I will. Because I do not want my life to be the caretaker of a 34 year old woman. I was an enabler in a previous relationship. That is not who I am anymore.

[Oldandfat]

(gamer-PC-parts story thing)

smh
#1- trying to not pay the niece is one thing.
#-2 but the fact this is over a gamer-PC thing is another.
Like no one sees the problem with the #2 here?

Like what if he wanted your niece to give him her old flute from HS music class that she was going to sell on craigslist
so that he could build a mean ass bong out of it. Sure poo poo on Jeff for not giving up $200 ... but the 2nd part?

..acting appropriately for a 40 year old “man”?

*spits out coffee*

Maybe you mentioned it before and I missed it, but honestly,
I had imagined this was a 20-29 y.o in my mind while reading all this.

So do you see #2 as a problem in that he’s having a hissy fit over it? Or is it me in that I’m having an issue with it? I.e “bitch eating crackers in bed”?

He is not quite 40. He turns 40 in August. Co workers actually thought he was like 12-14.

[Oldandfat]

@Oldandfat To give you personal insight into my life: I am dating a woman who is genuinely nice. In my experience that is hard to find. People are mean. She tolerates my quarks. Even seems mostly amused by me. I care for her very much. She has legal issues from before I met her involving a DUI and marijuana possession. At times, she makes reckless decisions and is very passive in her life. This has cost her. She is getting the opportunity for a second chance but has to jump through all the hoops the Court has set before her.

I had a discussion with her where I drew my line in the sand. I told her that if she did not complete the terms of her agreement, I'd end the relationship. That I would not help her meet the terms of her agreement (keep track of court dates, various counseling, community service, and so on). She had to do that for herself. I need a partner in my life whom I can trust and count on to take care of their business.

Now this was very tough to say to her and will be harder to follow through on. But I will. Because I do not want my life to be the caretaker of a 34 year old woman. I was an enabler in a previous relationship. That is not who I am anymore.

Everything you’ve said is all very valid. I like the writing it down idea, this way it doesn’t get heated. She can read and think about it.

As for my line in the sand do I outright state no cabin purchase whatsoever? No discussion whatsoever, just no? Or do I state cabin purchase with the stipulation she stop enabling her brother, and rules need to be put in place and enforced? Replacing fuel and propane is not unreasonable.

The cabin is actually nice. I have no problem dumping money into it. Gonna die someday anyway so live a little. I’m only entertaining the idea as it’s so important to my wife. I just wish she’d see how important it is to me to stop the enabling.

If I am to become an owner than his enabling is my concern.

To be honest I’m afraid she’ll leave and move in with mom and Jeff to make sure this cabin isn’t sold.

I suppose if that’s her choice than it’s a marriage not worth having.

I’m willing to sacrifice for the cabin for her, and I just want her to tell Jeff NO! Just like my daughter did.

I think wife knows what the problem is she just doesn’t want to cause waves.

[Oldandfat]

Mbasic, just to clarify my issue isn’t the fact he wanted free computer parts and then had a tantrum when told no. That’s just Jeff. He’s asked me for stuff and I’ve told him no as well. He will try and mooch off my daughter in the future and he will be told no, and then throw a hissy fit. That’s not my issue.

My concern is that my wife specifically instructed my daughter to not tell me. Now it feels like she’s tip toeing behind my back keeping things from me. Maybe she knows I’m at the “bitch eating crackers” phase and she’s just protecting me?

Maybe I’m paranoid as my previous marriage started to fall apart when my ex was hiding things from me, and I’m worried we are going down the same rabbit hole.

And also realize that in addition to advise (which I appreciate) Im Also using this venue as a way to vent. I can’t just punch this guy in the face, nor can I vent to my wife or daughter. Not even my family because my dad wants to punch him in the face, lol.

So you guys are my therapist if you will. It feels good to get it out, and that includes the “bitch eating crackers”.

[aurelius]

Everything you’ve said is all very valid. I like the writing it down idea, this way it doesn’t get heated. She can read and think about it.

As for my line in the sand do I outright state no cabin purchase whatsoever? No discussion whatsoever, just no? Or do I state cabin purchase with the stipulation she stop enabling her brother, and rules need to be put in place and enforced? Replacing fuel and propane is not unreasonable.

The cabin is actually nice. I have no problem dumping money into it. Gonna die someday anyway so live a little. I’m only entertaining the idea as it’s so important to my wife. I just wish she’d see how important it is to me to stop the enabling.

If I am to become an owner than his enabling is my concern.

To be honest I’m afraid she’ll leave and move in with mom and Jeff to make sure this cabin isn’t sold.

I suppose if that’s her choice than it’s a marriage not worth having.

I’m willing to sacrifice for the cabin for her, and I just want her to tell Jeff NO! Just like my daughter did.

I think wife knows what the problem is she just doesn’t want to cause waves.

You have to decide what your line in the sand is.

I would focus on only what you are willing to do. If you are okay with replacing fuel and propane then do it. Hell, bring your own propane tank out there and take it with you when you leave. If you are willing to own the thing outright then own it. If you want to let it rot, let it rot.

Your wife, an adult, can decide what she will do. If she wants to enable her brother, you are not going to stop it. I'd caution against any stipulations or rules. That is a setup for failure. And put you in direct opposition with your wife.

I feel like you and your wife need to have an honest conversation about this entire situation. Specifically how the situation is impacting the two of you. Tell here you live with the fear she will move out over this. Tell here you don't want that. What you want is a way to move forward that both of you can live with. She could come back with "you need to eat turd sandwiches the rest of your life" or comeback with compromise but at least you would know where you stand. It is the not knowing that eats you up alive. Your wife needs to know she is causing waves in her marriage.

I think if you really think about it: you really, really don't want this cabin. Compromise would be buying your own cabin. Jeff would still have use of the family cabin. Hell, his mom can give it to him. The family could still gather at your cabin. Why not propose that? Let Jeff get the family cabin and you get your own.

[Oldandfat]

I’ve offered to purchase our own cabin on the same lake. I’d still help mom and dad of course but sleep in my own cabin at night. She said no because she didn’t want to offend her parents.

I set up a shower at the cabin (bitch eating crackers) with on demand propane heat. Someone (guess who) ran out of bbq propane and swapped tanks. I show up and there’s no propane for my shower. I get upset and wife’s solution is “ill just get more propane”. Enabling again. Yes problem solved.

So you say to draw my line in the sand, but not to lay down rules or stipulations. Isn’t this the same thing, I.e Jeff can come to the cabin, but he has to at least replace what he uses. We’d already be providing a free cabin for him so I think it’s a reasonable “rule”, or line in the sand.

If I’m putting money on the table I should have a say if he will be enabled?

Not once did I say if we buy the cabin he will not be allowed to come out ever again. I don’t even care if he works or not. If wife wants to do dishes then fine. That’s how we roll. I do the “man” work, and she does the “women” work. (No offense to anyone that’s what it’s called at the cabin)

I don’t want to buy a cabin so that a 40 year old man can live all season for free, and to boot we all have to tip toe around him so that he doesn’t throw a hissy fit?

Aurelius, thanks so much for your input. As stated to mbasic this is part advice , and also part getting things off my chest.

I, like my wife am just trying to do the right thing keep everyone happy, keep the cabin and keep the peace.

It’s just driving me crazy. Nobody wants to enable Jeff, but we enable Jeff, and we can’t talk about it. (I can’t talk about it).

Truth be told I’m not out at the cabin all the time. If wife and daughter want to be there with Jeff, “have at er”.
Heck I’ll even go out there and “put up and shut up”. I just want to be able to go out periodically without him being there. I don’t think it’s too much to ask if I’m a part owner.

I just have to figure out how to explain this to my wife without coming across as hating her brother. I have to figure out how to draw a line in the sand without stipulations.

If mom is ok with Jeff than why doesn’t she ask HIM to pony up?

[Oldandfat]

And here’s an example of,crazy....... one of the cottage neighbors owns his cabin with his sister 50/50. Of course this guy does all the work, they do split the operating costs but sister doesn’t want to pay for capital improvements.

So this guy installs a solar system for the cabin. Sister didn’t want to pay so he disables the system, and locks up the control box so she can’t use it. Fair ball right?

Jeff was telling us about this and how “Mark” was right to do so because it’s not fair that he pays for the solar system so she shouldn’t get to use it if she doesn’t pay!

I literally choked on my coffee when he was telling us this. Calling marks sister a free loader, lol.

[hsilman]

So you say to draw my line in the sand, but not to lay down rules or stipulations. Isn’t this the same thing, I.e Jeff can come to the cabin, but he has to at least replace what he uses. We’d already be providing a free cabin for him so I think it’s a reasonable “rule”, or line in the sand.

If I’m putting money on the table I should have a say if he will be enabled?

Nah. Focus on what you will or won't do, not what anyone else does. You don't choose whether he will be enabled or not(except by doing it yourself), you only choose whether you put money on the table, as you say.

It makes sense, you want to make choices that everyone can be somewhat happy. But it doesn't sound like you have those choices to make. So now, say the choices you're willing to make, period. Not what other people will do, or whatever. Jeff isn't going to contribute, and won't stop being Jeff. Ever. No one is going to help you change that. So, no cabin and no money towards the cabin. No alternate cabin. Go live your life doing something else with your free time.

This is what it means to live in the best of all possible worlds. Some worlds just aren't possible. Take some time to mourn the future you wish you had, and hopefully, move on with your life.

[Oldandfat]

Hsilman, well said. But easier said than done.

I agree at this point I have a wife problem, not a Jeff problem. Possibly I’m jumping the gun here, but wife is so focused on this stupid cabin she will do what it takes even if it means moving out from me and moving in with mom so she can help pay for the cabin.

Or maybe she’s just waiting for me to draw the line in the sand so she doesn’t have to?

Or maybe I just give up, save the marriage and simply pay up and shut up. Whatever happens happens.

Either way I’m paying for a cabin, or I pay via divorce. Financially I’d come out about the same, but then I wouldn’t have a “Jeff” in my life.

[mbasic]

Yeah, I got lost in the fact Jeff was freeloading computer parts of your niece (#1,#2)

#3 is wife doesn't taking offense to #1&#2....seeing how that's just wierd and wrong. For instance, I hope Jeff never gets into any more of....say hard core drugs...or gets desperate. Hate to see what that is gonna look like. I mean, realistically, he is already steeling from you guys....ya know that right? I'm not talking about the "steeling" that you know about....I'm talking about plain ole steeling-steeling ....that you specifically dont know about.

#4 is wife instructing daughter to "self censor" her conversations with you about #1,#2. (Lie basically).
Ya, that's bad.

I think at this point everyone is set in their ways at this age....their own chronological age (old dog new tricks)....and the age of this whole dynamic with Jeff.

It's unlike Aurelius's situation...I think there's reasonable hope there for that working out because if the newness with the relationship.

I think in your case, there is too much momentum going the wrong way with that ship.

[Oldandfat]

Cabin aside, being a free loader aside I actually do want the best for this guy. And I’m not talking about living the rest of his life in the basement. I’m talking about further drug use (mom agrees it’s the pot). He is a heavy user of pot. This can escalate to things like meth.

I’m not a mean person. When I say I want him to “fuck off and die” it’s an expression. He is family after all and I don’t want him to harm himself, or others. Losing dad was hard on my wife. Losing a brother would be tough too, especially since EVERYBODY knows he is an issue, but NOBODY wants to even talk about how to deal with it.

How many times do we hear after something really bad happens, “if only we’d known, the warning signs are all there, he was silently crying for help “.

And here I am outside looking in, and seeing an escalation of his behavior since dad died. Sure, it’s quite likely he is still dealing with the loss. Who am I to say how one should deal with loss.

But it’s not normal for a 40,year old man to live at home for free (maybe? My uncle lived with grandma, but it was mutually beneficial), nor is it normal to mooch off your niece, and then throw a hissy fit. It’s not normal to not help your elderly mom to shovel out, or fix a flat. It’s not normal, or right for mom to live in fear that she might upset her 40 year old son by asking for help.

My wife thinks he has actually hit rock bottom. I don’t share this view. I think his enabling has led him down a path of pot use, and lack of self worth. To this add the fact that he’s holed up in the basement feeling worthless, jobless, and now he has lost not only his father, but one of his enablers. He doesn’t know how to cope so he lashes out.

Now add in the cabin to the picture, I’d not only be on the hook for things, but I’d simply be taking over where dad left off, further contributing to his downward spiral.

I’ve come at this with the mental illness depression thing. I explained to my wife that if Jeff had broken his leg and was in the basement in several pain he would be taken to the ER department for treatment.
We wouldn’t simply say “oh that’s just Jeff, he breaks his leg every year water skiing. He’ll be fine, it’s just how he deals with things. How insane would that be? But its exactly what everyone is doing. “He sad, he’s depressed, he just lost dad, it’s how he copes”.

I’m a problem solver. Give me a problem and I will solve it. It’s not always the best solution but I’ll take a crack at it.

Mom says she doesn’t want to support him anymore. She has a problem. Is she just venting, or is she asking for help? Maybe I should just ask mom outright if she’s asking for help?

I’m literally dealing with a little bit of dr Phil, and sometimes some jerry springer.

I’m not aware of him stealing anything. I,can’t see that happening, BUT drugs are drugs. People don’t think clearly when there is an addiction.

[aurelius]

@hsilman got the gist. It is very different to state what you will or won't do versus laying down the rules that everyone else must follow. What happens if people don't follow the rules? How would 'punishment' be enforced? Who enforces it? Ultimately, aren't you stuck going back to the very same decision you are faced with now? To contribute or not contribute?

You need to figure out what you will or won't do. It seems that you have resigned yourself to eat a turd sandwich the rest of your life for your wife's benefit with the occasional let Jeff know he is a POS to vent your frustration. I'm not going to give you advice on what you should do with your marriage but that just feels like a real suck ass way to live.

In the end, you have to decide if you matter. If you do decide you matter, you need to figure out what exactly you can live with and be happy. If other people essentially decide you don't matter and your happiness is not important: well, you kind of have your answer.

[Oldandfat]

Going to the “family” cabin and contributing to something that isn’t mine is one thing.

Contributing to “our” cabin is another. I’d hold no resentment to him. It’s not his cabin as it’s not his now.

Either way if we own, or not he’s going to come out and sponge. Daughter has made it clear she would not tolerate him using and not contributing. Much like she did when she refused to give him computer parts. It’s her money and she didn’t,want to spend it on him. I think my wife would be the same once we actually have skin in the game.

Right now he acts like it’s his cabin.

I don’t,think I’m asking for much. All he really has to do is dishes. I’ll buy his groceries for the weekend. We bought for mom and dad. Or he can help pick up tools after a days work.

Maybe he’s really not capable of doing anything for himself. Fine. Take us out for supper once in a while. Even a 100 dollar Home Depot gift card once a year. Just something. Something to say “thanks man for everything you do for me”.

He has thanked me in the past and apologized for not helping. We shake hands, and then wash rinse and repeat. Sorry still venting here. Got the day off from work and needed to bitch about,crackers.

I’ll think about some, and have a discussion with the wife. I’ll tell her exactly how I feel, and what my thoughts,are. If she shuts down I’ll suggest counseling. Failing that I guess it’s time to lawyer up and just be done with it.

She can go her way, and I can go mine.

She has wants, and I’m willing to do ANYTHING for her, but she has to realize that I Will make it happen with the provision she take into account my feelings and needs too.

Or, I can just do the cabin this year to “see how it goes”. Maybe he will be on eggshells and on good behavior so as not to tick me off. Maybe now that dads gone even more is on her shoulders and she will come to the realization that enabling Jeff is just too much? I think mom wants out, and part ownership is a way to transfer Jeff to us.

I hold the cards financially. There’s no way she could afford the cabin without my financial backing. I’ve NEVER made money an issue. She needs a vehicle I’ll finance it, or help out. I’ve never held it over her head either. I’m a very generous person. Very giving.

If Jeff actually approached me for help I’d pay for his counseling or rehab if need be. I’m blessed with a somewhat ability to help out, but there’s a difference between lending a helping hand, and plain old being taken advantage of with NO appreciation.

Still trying to wrap my head around the difference of what I’ll do/won’t do, and rules. I get what your saying but at the same time there has to be consequences instead of the word punishment.

If Jeff punched someone out he appears before a judge. Judge won’t care about poor Jeff, and how he’s enabled. Punch someone out, you go to jail.

[Oldandfat]

@hsilman got the gist. It is very different to state what you will or won't do versus laying down the rules that everyone else must follow. What happens if people don't follow the rules? How would 'punishment' be enforced? Who enforces it? Ultimately, aren't you stuck going back to the very same decision you are faced with now? To contribute or not contribute?

You need to figure out what you will or won't do. It seems that you have resigned yourself to eat a turd sandwich the rest of your life for your wife's benefit with the occasional let Jeff know he is a POS to vent your frustration. I'm not going to give you advice on what you should do with your marriage but that just feels like a real suck ass way to live.

In the end, you have to decide if you matter. If you do decide you matter, you need to figure out what exactly you can live with and be happy. If other people essentially decide you don't matter and your happiness is not important: well, you kind of have your answer.

So yesterday mom was over at the house and officially asked if we would buy “half a cabin”. Financially it makes more sense to rent a cabin. But ya only live once and the brinks truck doesn’t follow the hearse.

Just prior to this we (daughter and wife) had an honest discussion bout what we were prepared to do, (price, succession, and guest rules, Etc. )

We made an offer to purchase a 3/4 interest in the cabin with joint ownership with rights of survivorship. We are not “screwing” anyone out of their share of a cabin. We are buying the 3 “shares” out, and will inherit the last 25%. Family succession is important to everyone, but I was not going to accept a future battle/buyout/financial squeeze, or worse.... an heir suddenly out all the time as they are “entitled” because it’s theirs. (No mention of name, just a concern).

Mom picked up right away that I was referencing “Jeff” and just came out and said “let’s stop pretending.... the elephant in the room is “Jeff”.

Mom is agreeable to our offer, and we all feel it is fair. For full disclosure all siblings will be made aware of our offer. If there any concerns, they are free to make mom an offer and step up to the plate. If not forever hold your voice.

As for actual cabin usage mom, upon her passing just wanted us to promise not to exclude the family from coming out, meaning excluding family simply because we can. We agreed so long as our cabin “rules” were abided by. Which brings us to the “rules”........

All 4 of us are on the same page. As legal joint owners there are 4, and only 4 people legally entitled to occupy the cabin. Everyone else falls under two categories, each with their respective “rules”. These “rules” to not apply to one specific person, but are intended for ALL family members.

Category 1: Guests. Guests are people who are infrequently invited by any of the owners to come out and enjoy a week/weekend at the cabin. Guests are not expected to bring anything, or do any work at the cabin. They are guests. Of course they are welcome to contribute if they wish.

Category 2: Regular guests. These are people that attend the cabin on a basis other than occasional invite. I.e weekends for 2 months, etc. regular guests ARE expected to contribute either labor, or materials. It’s not a tit for tat expectation either. If your there for a couple of weekends in a row the owners had better not show up and have to cut grass, clear gutters, etc. incidentals will also have to be replenished. Used the last of the propane? No worries. Just replace the tank with a full one.

Non owners are free to decide for themselves if they want to be a category one, or category two guests. We don’t care.

If Jeff wants to come out once a year for one week we are all fine with that. No expectations from him, other than replace propane, and fix if you brake. If he wants to upgrade to a category 2 guest than he can chose to do so.

All four of us want to provide a legacy cabin for the family, but we are not prepared to subsidize others.
We also all agreed that ANY owner is entitled to time at the cabin exclusively for themselves.

I feel confident that “Jeff” can make his own decision as to what he wants.

As for “Jeff” in general..... mom has indicated that dad was the primary enabler at home, and at the cabin. Mom and dad are from the era of “man bread winner/head of household, and mom was the home maker”.

That was then, and this is now , and she no longer wishes to enable/pay for an adult child living at home, and she is tired of shoveling as “Jeff” sleeps.

Since dads passing she has given “Jeff” a grace period, recognizing that he has lost his father/friend/enabler, but now wants to deal with it.

She has asked my wife and I to join her with an intervention of sorts and talk to him.

Aurelius, just wondering your thoughts on how to “deal” with Jeff now that mom has officially asked us for help? What to say, what to do? I have no idea.

My response to mom was “think about how you want to do this, and let us know how we can help”.

Honestly I feel relived. I feared a totally different response from wife. “Protect little bro at all costs”. Now that our money is on the table SHE doesn’t want to enable him anymore. Doing dishes for him is one thing. Financially subsidizing him is another.

I’m glad mom wants to do something about “Jeff”, and honestly if it’s a mental health thing I do want him to get treatment. I think all of his issues are intertwined and contributes to each other and make him worse over all.

Just wanted some advice for myself, and mom how to approach?

[aurelius]

Aurelius, just wondering your thoughts on how to “deal” with Jeff now that mom has officially asked us for help? What to say, what to do? I have no idea.

My response to mom was “think about how you want to do this, and let us know how we can help”.

Honestly I feel relived. I feared a totally different response from wife. “Protect little bro at all costs”. Now that our money is on the table SHE doesn’t want to enable him anymore. Doing dishes for him is one thing. Financially subsidizing him is another.

I’m glad mom wants to do something about “Jeff”, and honestly if it’s a mental health thing I do want him to get treatment. I think all of his issues are intertwined and contributes to each other and make him worse over all.

Just wanted some advice for myself, and mom how to approach?

I'm happy for you that this resolution has come to pass.

Your strategy of 'inaction', non-confrontation, and allowing Jeff to sink his own ship has paid off. I know you are a fixer and it must have driven you crazy to sit back. Good job of employing tactics that do not come naturally and succeeding. Lesser men are incapable of doing so.

In my opinion, you already have the right idea. Your mother-in-law needs to stand up to Jeff herself. Continue to allow her to lead on this. Be there for support but she needs to be the one that does the talking.

[Oldandfat]

Aurelius, just wondering your thoughts on how to “deal” with Jeff now that mom has officially asked us for help? What to say, what to do? I have no idea.

My response to mom was “think about how you want to do this, and let us know how we can help”.

Honestly I feel relived. I feared a totally different response from wife. “Protect little bro at all costs”. Now that our money is on the table SHE doesn’t want to enable him anymore. Doing dishes for him is one thing. Financially subsidizing him is another.

I’m glad mom wants to do something about “Jeff”, and honestly if it’s a mental health thing I do want him to get treatment. I think all of his issues are intertwined and contributes to each other and make him worse over all.

Just wanted some advice for myself, and mom how to approach?

I'm happy for you that this resolution has come to pass.

Your strategy of 'inaction', non-confrontation, and allowing Jeff to sink his own ship has paid off. I know you are a fixer and it must have driven you crazy to sit back. Good job of employing tactics that do not come naturally and succeeding. Lesser men are incapable of doing so.

In my opinion, you already have the right idea. Your mother-in-law needs to stand up to Jeff herself. Continue to allow her to lead on this. Be there for support but she needs to be the one that does the talking.

Once again, thanks for your input. And everyone else too.

Avoiding the “me vs Jeff” has been key.

We negotiated a fair deal in regards to the cabin, where all of us benefit. And I never once said Jeff can never come out.

We, the owners decided what WE expect from family regarding cabin use.

Jeff will always be welcomed as a guest. (It’s a compromise for me, but one I’m happy with.) he is also welcome to attend as a regular so long as he abides by the expectations. It is completely up to HIM, not us, how he would like to use the cabin. I’m ok with whatever he chooses.

My family unit will own the cabin, with stress free succession, mom gets some financial breathing room, and I can slave away at OUR cabin.

Our guests can enjoy the cabin without expectation of contribution, and the regulars if they choose can attend regularly with the expected contributions.

Hopefully Jeff can accept this, and change his ways and become a decent person, and if need be, get the required help that he needs.

[brkriete]

Hopefully Jeff can accept this, and change his ways and become a decent person, and if need be, get the required help that he needs.

I'd still run, not walk, away. Seems like everybody talks tough about Jeff until the shit actually hits the fan.

[Oldandfat]

Hopefully Jeff can accept this, and change his ways and become a decent person, and if need be, get the required help that he needs.

I'd still run, not walk, away. Seems like everybody talks tough about Jeff until the shit actually hits the fan.

By this I meant hopefully Jeff can become a decent person and change his ways, and enjoy the cabin with everyone.

I didn’t mean I hope jeff will not come out to the cabin and do nothing because that will NOT happen.

I,see what you’re saying though. He won’t change, etc. up until now it’s been no talk whatsoever about Jeff. It’s been poor Jeff, Jeff is sad, Jeff is grieving, Jeff is enabled. It’s just how he is.

Mom has actually asked us for help. She would like an intervention. (Still writing to figure out how. )

Wife and daughter have laid down the expectations of any guests, or regulars. It was one thing for mom and dad to enable. Now that WE are paying for dinner it’s different.

I honestly think he’ll either just show up for his week or two and be done with it, or he will actually start helping out. As an owner I’ll be riding his ass if he’s out and not doing anything. So will my wife and daughter.

We still have to talk to him, not just about the cabin expectations, but the talk I was going to have with him before dad got sick. Still not,sure what to,say to him.

[LexAnderson]

It's always tough to figure out what to say to people in these situations. But it does seem as though some tough love my be needed over a softer approach. Admitting to understanding Jeff is grieving, but holding ground and not accepting his excuses for his behavior is how I would go. His actions haven't been like this for a short period of time, but rather a longer period that precedes any specific situation that's occurred recently.

Have things been tough, or difficult lately? Yes, but that doesn't excuse his actions or behavior. Life happens to all of us, and it is on us on how we respond to these events. Jeff can't handle what's happened with his Father, but he can decide how he responds to it. Just like he can choose to respond to the family coming to him and expressing his need for change in a positive way and make the effort to be better. Or he will reject it and choose to continue his poor behavior.

In the end its on Jeff to improve his behavior through whatever means necessary, and you guys will have exercised all of your options to him to help. You guys have done a really great job handling this.