Need some input... family cabin, in law issues

[alek]

I like the idea of buying your own cabin there. You can be there when in laws are there, but you have your own space to retreat to.

Pitch it to your wife as building up the family asset collection at the lake. But keep it in your name.

I stand by this quote.

[Hanley]

I like the idea of buying your own cabin there. You can be there when in laws are there, but you have your own space to retreat to.

Pitch it to your wife as building up the family asset collection at the lake. But keep it in your name.

I stand by this quote.

Everything's come beautifully full-circle:

Hanley buy THE cabin in question, or buy our own?

Your own.

[asdf]

Yep.

You will be viewed as the meddling in-law who stole the family cabin, instituted rules, and evicted Jeff. When he ends up a homeless meth addict, the family will blame you. Terrible idea. The cabin is already causing you headaches. If you own it, it will be 100x worse.

If you want a cabin, buy a different one. (I think @Hanley said that back on page 1 or 2.) Buying your own cabin and not letting Jeff live there will seem reasonable to everyone, in a way that buying their cabin and kicking him out won't.

[Oldandfat]

Yep.

You will be viewed as the meddling in-law who stole the family cabin, instituted rules, and evicted Jeff. When he ends up a homeless meth addict, the family will blame you. Terrible idea. The cabin is already causing you headaches. If you own it, it will be 100x worse.

If you want a cabin, buy a different one. (I think @Hanley said that back on page 1 or 2.) Buying your own cabin and not letting Jeff live there will seem reasonable to everyone, in a way that buying their cabin and kicking him out won't.

You were absolutely bang on. Except we never said we were going to evict anyone.

So what my mother in law wanted was for me to pay for the cabin but not really own it. I pay, Jeff uses, and we all just put up, and shut up.

And that’s fine. What bothered me is that she agreed to everything. She was onboard. I wrote the cheques got the work started and ran point on everything (she used this against me as being controlling and bossy).

Everything was fine and when she came over to review the final documents she launched the personal attack and then tried to strong arm us into her keeping 10% to be willed to Jeff unless he doesn’t change his ways.


I get it, she wanted to renegotiate even thought we had an agreement. But it’s the personal attack on me that pisses me off.

Jeff was no where to help her when she needs help. He even screamed at her all the way to the hospital (on the day of death) cause he was tired. He’s still,an asssole to her.

Ive done lots for her and her family, lots for the cabin and at the end of the day it’s all about Jeff.

She’s basically put Jeff higher priority than her other children.

Mom is dead to me. Wife is pissed off. (At mom) daughter too. They are basically going to write her off.

Incidentally I found out yesterday that Jeff borrowed 1000 from daughter 3 years ago cause Jeff was going to lose his truck. He wasn’t paying her back as promised (still drank beer and smoked pot) and grandpa ended up,paying her back, lol.

This guy is pure gold.

[Oldandfat]

I like the idea of buying your own cabin there. You can be there when in laws are there, but you have your own space to retreat to.

Pitch it to your wife as building up the family asset collection at the lake. But keep it in your name.

I stand by this quote.

Everything's come beautifully full-circle:

Hanley buy THE cabin in question, or buy our own?

Your own.

Yes, and no. Honestly and I’m speaking for me as a person I’m relieved. I’ve bent over backwards to try and make this work. I never wanted to buy this cabin. It’s a lot of work because it’s remote and off grid (even without a Jeff propblem). Eventually we’d “age out” anyways.

But I feel sadly for my wife. She’s devastated not just about losing “the cabin” but by how horrible her mom was, and the accusations she made.

But I also had a talk with her sisters husband. As an “outsider” I wanted his perspective. It was basically “Jeff always was, and always is an asshole”. He didn’t tell me not to do it. He said you are free to do as you want, but added that he would not do our,deal, nor would he outright buy the “family cabin”.

Basically said the same thing. Your “stealing” the cabin and kicking “Jeff “ out. ( he actually said “fuck nuts” not “Jeff”).

[alek]

I like the idea of buying your own cabin there. You can be there when in laws are there, but you have your own space to retreat to.

Pitch it to your wife as building up the family asset collection at the lake. But keep it in your name.

I stand by this quote.

Everything's come beautifully full-circle:

Hanley buy THE cabin in question, or buy our own?

Your own.

I’m not even going to be petty and point out that I posted my initial quote a mere 3 hours before yours, yet you are the one everyone quotes. It’s cool. I get it; I don’t bench 405.

[Oldandfat]

I like the idea of buying your own cabin there. You can be there when in laws are there, but you have your own space to retreat to.

Pitch it to your wife as building up the family asset collection at the lake. But keep it in your name.

I stand by this quote.

Everything's come beautifully full-circle:

Hanley buy THE cabin in question, or buy our own?

Your own.

I’m not even going to be petty and point out that I posted my initial quote a mere 3 hours before yours, yet you are the one everyone quotes. It’s cool. I get it; I don’t bench 405.

Just because you weren’t quoted doesn’t mean it wasn’t valued.

But I will say that your quote at this point is not an option. I’m done with “Jeff” and I’m done with mom. If we had a cabin on the same lake I’d sell. Wouldn’t be able to watch them. Although the upcoming shit show would be fun to watch.

I feel bad for the neighbors. Even if mom can squeak by financially, absolutely no work will get done. Her son and grandsons will be out fishing and drinking. Oh well. Not my problem

[alek]

I like the idea of buying your own cabin there. You can be there when in laws are there, but you have your own space to retreat to.

Pitch it to your wife as building up the family asset collection at the lake. But keep it in your name.

I stand by this quote.

Everything's come beautifully full-circle:

Hanley buy THE cabin in question, or buy our own?

Your own.

I’m not even going to be petty and point out that I posted my initial quote a mere 3 hours before yours, yet you are the one everyone quotes. It’s cool. I get it; I don’t bench 405.

Just because you weren’t quoted doesn’t mean it wasn’t valued.

But I will say that your quote at this point is not an option. I’m done with “Jeff” and I’m done with mom. If we had a cabin on the same lake I’d sell. Wouldn’t be able to watch them. Although the upcoming shit show would be fun to watch.

I feel bad for the neighbors. Even if mom can squeak by financially, absolutely no work will get done. Her son and grandsons will be out fishing and drinking. Oh well. Not my problem

No worries, and no hard feelings—to anybody. I think you tried to do right by your wife, but it was/is a shitty situation.

If having something like that is really important to you, your wife and your kids, then I think finding something new to all of you would be good for a fresh start.

[Oldandfat]

I like the idea of buying your own cabin there. You can be there when in laws are there, but you have your own space to retreat to.

Pitch it to your wife as building up the family asset collection at the lake. But keep it in your name.

I stand by this quote.

Everything's come beautifully full-circle:

Hanley buy THE cabin in question, or buy our own?

Your own.

I’m not even going to be petty and point out that I posted my initial quote a mere 3 hours before yours, yet you are the one everyone quotes. It’s cool. I get it; I don’t bench 405.

Just because you weren’t quoted doesn’t mean it wasn’t valued.

But I will say that your quote at this point is not an option. I’m done with “Jeff” and I’m done with mom. If we had a cabin on the same lake I’d sell. Wouldn’t be able to watch them. Although the upcoming shit show would be fun to watch.

I feel bad for the neighbors. Even if mom can squeak by financially, absolutely no work will get done. Her son and grandsons will be out fishing and drinking. Oh well. Not my problem

No worries, and no hard feelings—to anybody. I think you tried to do right by your wife, but it was/is a shitty situation.

If having something like that is really important to you, your wife and your kids, then I think finding something new to all of you would be good for a fresh start.

Wife,said she isn’t interested in any other property. I just want my 38k back (what I paid to fix foundation). I wrote the cheque in good faith because had we waited for all the legal stuff the contractors would have booked up and cabin may very well still be on the ground.

So the whole thing unfolded and rules were discussed and close up was discussed (under the assumption we were the new owners). Jeff got all in moms head. Mom said all the flags were there and the writing was on the wall that once she died poor Jeff would be banished.

She said she didn’t trust us, and that we needed to trust her that she would “change the will” if he didn’t change his ways.

Kinda did the reverse trust thing. I told her trusted her by writing the cheque.

Daughter still thinks it was a Hail Mary last attempt for poor Jeff.

But I mean even if she comes crawling back and agrees to our original deal I don’t want anything to do with this place.

I know she’s emotionally being abused. Verbally abused. The cabin neighbors son in law witnessed a fight with mom and Jeff and,was concerned enough he was going to go see if she was alright.

I sent mom a message indicating that while I’m not blood, she is my mother and I’m worried about her. If she needs help I told her to let me know. She turned that against me stating it was a ploy to play on her emotions.

I feel bad for even thinking this, but I’m to the point if he escalates and actually hits her, or throws her down a flight of stairs I’d be thinking good for you dear. Jeff will apologize and that will make it ok.

[alek]

Wife,said she isn’t interested in any other property. I just want my 38k back (what I paid to fix foundation).

Sounds like you have it figured out then. Get your tools and as much of the money back and wipe your hands of it.

[Hanley]

I get it; I don’t bench 405.

415, brah

[alek]

I get it; I don’t bench 405.

415, brah

You sure? I’ve seen no videos spammed all over the board.

[hsilman]

Wife,said she isn’t interested in any other property. I just want my 38k back (what I paid to fix foundation). I wrote the cheque in good faith because had we waited for all the legal stuff the contractors would have booked up and cabin may very well still be on the ground.

So the whole thing unfolded and rules were discussed and close up was discussed (under the assumption we were the new owners). Jeff got all in moms head. Mom said all the flags were there and the writing was on the wall that once she died poor Jeff would be banished.

She said she didn’t trust us, and that we needed to trust her that she would “change the will” if he didn’t change his ways.

Kinda did the reverse trust thing. I told her trusted her by writing the cheque.

Daughter still thinks it was a Hail Mary last attempt for poor Jeff.

But I mean even if she comes crawling back and agrees to our original deal I don’t want anything to do with this place.

I know she’s emotionally being abused. Verbally abused. The cabin neighbors son in law witnessed a fight with mom and Jeff and,was concerned enough he was going to go see if she was alright.

I sent mom a message indicating that while I’m not blood, she is my mother and I’m worried about her. If she needs help I told her to let me know. She turned that against me stating it was a ploy to play on her emotions.

I feel bad for even thinking this, but I’m to the point if he escalates and actually hits her, or throws her down a flight of stairs I’d be thinking good for you dear. Jeff will apologize and that will make it ok.

I'm not a professional, I think the key to good mental health in these situations is to not deal with someone on their terms if those terms are disagreeable, but to also not wish them ill. You understand that this guy came out of her womb, and people will do the craziest, most illogical things for their kids.

You're right to write off the relationship, or at least keep her at arms length going forward. Your wife is right to be pissed at her mom. But I'd recommend you don't let yourself be caught up with negative thinking towards her. You can recognize bad decisions and still hope the person can "see the light" without reaping the worst consequences of those decisions. The cabin will fall into disrepair, the relationship with her other child will be ruined. That's a shitty outcome all around.

This all seems an extension of the childhood trope where one kid gets all As and not a peep, but when the C student gets a B-, it's hung on the fridge with pride. Parents spend more time, energy, and mental focus on the problem children. The ones doing ok are left to fend for themselves. That's not exactly what's happening here, just saying it's an extension of that type of thinking.

[mgil]

@hsilman good words for dealing with people in general

[5hout]

If a potential client came to me with this tale, including:

* 38k out of pocket from pre-deal/good faith expenditures.
* At "closing" subject to a barrage of personal attacks.
* Told they are "getting a deal" so they should be happy also getting shafted.
* Accused of manipulation in manner (armchair judgement, but right) consistent with massive amounts of projection combined with DARVO for days.
* Told Jeff would get the 10% when MIL passes and potential client must trust MIL to disinherit if Jeff doesn't follow through.

I would turn said client away, unless the representation was limited solely to an attempt to secure a lien or compensation for the 38k.

1: The middle 3 bullet points are absolutely a sign that no good faith dealing is possible.
2: Jeff being conditionally disinherited will never happen.
3: To keep your relationship with your wife happy, as hsilman suggests, need to avoid letting this color perception of MIL, but at this point also need to realize no acceptable deal is happening.
4: The cost of keeping the peace is probably not pursuing the 38k. It's a cheap lesson at the price, because had you signed a deal I would expect Jeff/MIL to be taking their regret and looking to unwind the deal with brutal (and, bullshit) allegations of elder abuse and related issues. You just spent 38k to avoid buying a cabin and then getting sued for it. Harsh, but better than 38+Price of cabin+MIL hating you and Jeff trying to work the system against you.

EDIT:

5: If you continue negotiations after this, expect to get wrecked. Once those allegations are leveled anything you do to move a deal along will be perceived by Jeff/MIL as wrongful, once hindsight kicks in and they sit around re-imaging what could have happened "if only we had done X deal instead"

[Oldandfat]

If a potential client came to me with this tale, including:

* 38k out of pocket from pre-deal/good faith expenditures.
* At "closing" subject to a barrage of personal attacks.
* Told they are "getting a deal" so they should be happy also getting shafted.
* Accused of manipulation in manner (armchair judgement, but right) consistent with massive amounts of projection combined with DARVO for days.
* Told Jeff would get the 10% when MIL passes and potential client must trust MIL to disinherit if Jeff doesn't follow through.

I would turn said client away, unless the representation was limited solely to an attempt to secure a lien or compensation for the 38k.

1: The middle 3 bullet points are absolutely a sign that no good faith dealing is possible.
2: Jeff being conditionally disinherited will never happen.
3: To keep your relationship with your wife happy, as hsilman suggests, need to avoid letting this color perception of MIL, but at this point also need to realize no acceptable deal is happening.
4: The cost of keeping the peace is probably not pursuing the 38k. It's a cheap lesson at the price, because had you signed a deal I would expect Jeff/MIL to be taking their regret and looking to unwind the deal with brutal (and, bullshit) allegations of elder abuse and related issues. You just spent 38k to avoid buying a cabin and then getting sued for it. Harsh, but better than 38+Price of cabin+MIL hating you and Jeff trying to work the system against you.

EDIT:

5: If you continue negotiations after this, expect to get wrecked. Once those allegations are leveled anything you do to move a deal along will be perceived by Jeff/MIL as wrongful, once hindsight kicks in and they sit around re-imaging what could have happened "if only we had done X deal instead"

Mom says she will pay me back the 38k. She has 20k in savings and is getting a loan for the rest.

I hope it doesn’t come to a huge battle.

There will be no more negotiations for obvious reasons:

1. Mom doesn’t want us to buy the family cabin. She wants us to give her money , accept the expense and responsibilities of the cabin, while she maintains,control, and Jeff continue to use the cabin no matter what.

2. She has accused me of making things up, taking advantage of a grieving widow, and manipulating her to get my ways.

Point number one, mom is an enabler. Nothing will change. I’m not interested in paying for Jeff’s cabin.

Point number 2, I would not feel comfortable, nor would I be able to sleep at night knowing that mom feels like I cheated her, lied to her, and strong armed her into a deal.

[Oldandfat]

Wife,said she isn’t interested in any other property. I just want my 38k back (what I paid to fix foundation). I wrote the cheque in good faith because had we waited for all the legal stuff the contractors would have booked up and cabin may very well still be on the ground.

So the whole thing unfolded and rules were discussed and close up was discussed (under the assumption we were the new owners). Jeff got all in moms head. Mom said all the flags were there and the writing was on the wall that once she died poor Jeff would be banished.

She said she didn’t trust us, and that we needed to trust her that she would “change the will” if he didn’t change his ways.

Kinda did the reverse trust thing. I told her trusted her by writing the cheque.

Daughter still thinks it was a Hail Mary last attempt for poor Jeff.

But I mean even if she comes crawling back and agrees to our original deal I don’t want anything to do with this place.

I know she’s emotionally being abused. Verbally abused. The cabin neighbors son in law witnessed a fight with mom and Jeff and,was concerned enough he was going to go see if she was alright.

I sent mom a message indicating that while I’m not blood, she is my mother and I’m worried about her. If she needs help I told her to let me know. She turned that against me stating it was a ploy to play on her emotions.

I feel bad for even thinking this, but I’m to the point if he escalates and actually hits her, or throws her down a flight of stairs I’d be thinking good for you dear. Jeff will apologize and that will make it ok.

I'm not a professional, I think the key to good mental health in these situations is to not deal with someone on their terms if those terms are disagreeable, but to also not wish them ill. You understand that this guy came out of her womb, and people will do the craziest, most illogical things for their kids.

You're right to write off the relationship, or at least keep her at arms length going forward. Your wife is right to be pissed at her mom. But I'd recommend you don't let yourself be caught up with negative thinking towards her. You can recognize bad decisions and still hope the person can "see the light" without reaping the worst consequences of those decisions. The cabin will fall into disrepair, the relationship with her other child will be ruined. That's a shitty outcome all around.

This all seems an extension of the childhood trope where one kid gets all As and not a peep, but when the C student gets a B-, it's hung on the fridge with pride. Parents spend more time, energy, and mental focus on the problem children. The ones doing ok are left to fend for themselves. That's not exactly what's happening here, just saying it's an extension of that type of thinking.

Hey, I get the “protect baby Jeff at all costs”. She even made a point of telling me she birthed him, and I’ll never understand. I get it. I get she’s worried I’ll arbitrarily ban him.

She could have simply come over and said “look, I’m not comfortable with the deal, and I’m concerned about Jeff being banned from the cabin, and for that reason we cannot proceed”.

She didn’t need to personally attack me. I have done a TON for this woman. Emotional support, stuff around the house, help her out in emergencies, helped at the cabin, etc. she trusted me enough to ask if I’d be her power of attorney, and medical proxy to make life or death decisions in the event she cannot do so. Kinda flattering, and humbling that someone would put THAT amount of trust in me.

Mom has basically called me a bully, control freak , and accused me of taking advantage of, and manipulating a grieving widow. She may as well called me a pedophile.

I don’t hate her, and I’m giving her the benefit of the doubt that “Jeff” put the ideas in her head, and it was not her talking, but a severely manipulated, and abused elderly woman.

But moving forward I don’t want to go to the cabin. Not because of sour grapes, but I never wanted to buy the place, it was for my wife. I don’t want to go out because Jeff will be there. I don’t like the guy. If I go, I will feel obligated to help out. I don’t want to help out if I’m the only one doing so.

I certainly don’t want to help mom ever again. Not because I hate her but obviously anything I’ve done for her turned into me being controlling. I also don’t see why I should go to her house and shovel snow, or fix a flat, or boost a car while a 38 year old man is in her basement sleeping/drinking/playing video games/smoking pot.

Sure, he doesn’t know any plumbing, electrical, or carpentry so I don’t expect him to do so.

I’m trying to come up with a nice way of saying “sorry I can’t help you anymore” without being rude about it.

Someone brought up “if Jeff was living in China you’d shovel mom out” and yes, I absolutely would, but Jeff isn’t in China.

Maybe I should just let things cool down a bit. My daughter figures it was a last ditch attempt to get Jeff his slice of the pie, and that it was a poorly thought out, poorly executed attempt.

We knew she was gonna make a last ditch plea for Jeff. Who knows, maybe she knows he will fuck up and break the rules, resulting in a ban.

Anyways we were caught off guard. It was an absolute ambush. She had three pages of things that I had done that she felt I was being disrespectful.
- I wouldn’t pick a biblical name for my child
- I was trying to tell her what car to buy with HER money. (She asked me to research vehicles, and I made recommendations , and so forth. It was literally “one time, at band camp.....you disrespected me. Literally trivial things in the past that had absolutely nothing to do with the cabin.

It was basically for every concern I had about Jeff and the cabin she had one or more examples of me, and if I did it or said it, how dare question Jeff doing it.

Whatever. She was desperately grasping at straws, and it was absurd. Wife and daughter looked at me with that “wtf is she talking about” look.

Then she started waving “the deal” at us and pointed out the benefits we were getting, 25% “free” cabin, interest free forgivable loan for a portion of it, and the ton was “look what I’m doing for you, why should you guys get this deal and how dare you ban Jeff after what I’ve done for you. The “free” portion was exchanged for a life interest in the cabin. It wasn’t free. Yes the interest free forgivable loan was nice, but without that provision, after cabin purchase, upgrades, new boat, if she were to pass we’d be fucked,as,we’d,have to pay back the estate.

Look, at the end of the day it was a win/win for everyone (including Jeff) and we all agreed. So don’t wave it in our face like your doing us a favor when we all agreed and benefited.

It’s the personal attack on my character that I have a problem with. AND it was completely absolutely out of the blue, like it had been simmering for a long time.

Sorry for the long rant but man, I feel like absolute shit right now.

[alek]

Ive actually pitched our own cabin to her with the idea that we have something to pass down to our daughter. As it stands now, (pretending that everything is tickity boo) at some point there will be too many people “sharing” the cabin. I,get it, the in laws are aging, and they appreciate the grandkids coming out, even unannounced. Personally I’m sick of the random drop ins, and a fridge full of beer, and the smell of skunk everywhere.


Honestly when Jeff opened his mouth I should have gotten into it with him right then. Instead I stayed silent and was avoiding him. Then he moved to the cabin full time. I know I can still go out, and not do any work, except I,can’t. I just can’t watch a 70 year old man work. So I’d end up working to help out and just being pissed off while Jeff sleeps.

Jeff actually talked to my wife about it because I didn’t come out this year. Of course he went defensive. Said I don’t have to work. Let’s put the work aside, why should I pay for his food, and cook it? Why should I do,his dishes.

I can live without the cabin and honestly the wife went out and took the dogs. I had the house to myself and it was actually nice, lol.

I feel it’s getting out of hand now because x mas is getting cancelled. And I stilll am not sure if Jeff is just a lazy pothead, or an entitled person. We actually used to get along, we have similar political views, etc. that’s what made his remarks that much more infuriating. All I can think is buddy, ya had it good. I was coming out and doing all your work while you drank. I paid,for lots of the supply’s. All ya had to do is keep your mouth shut.

For me it’s not about the work per say. I rebuilt their deck. It’s “my deck”. When I have a beer on the deck I say to my self “I built this”. It’s about being disrespected.

I guess I’m wondering how to get this resolved. I don’t want to insult the parents by suggesting their son is a freeloading pos, possibly challenging the dads authority. Who am I to tell him what to do?

Same with the cabin. Another reason I wanted to rent a cabin was to get dad engaged in a conversation. “Why are you renting?”, “we’ll we just want some quiet time for ourselves. “

I just figured not going was the non invasive way. It worked because everyone is aware. I’m hoping now that the poop is out of the goose, the other siblings will pipe up with their opinions to reenforce that Jeff is the problem, not me.

There’s probably not going to be any resolution with the current situation. And it’s likely to get worse because when the parents die, Jeff is very likely to get the cabin solely since he lives there fulltime now and two other siblings are never there. Marinate on that while you’re doing any work on the cabin. It’s going to be all Jeff’s one day.

I hear you don’t want to sit by as a 70 year old man works while his ~40 year old son lazes the day away, but that’s not your responsibility. It the father’s fault that he allows his son to do that. I’m not saying don’t help if you want, but don’t take responsibility for other people’s problems.

If you really like being at the lake and enjoy sitting on the dock, then the best thing you can do for yourself in my opinion is to buy your own cabin.

If you’re ambivalent about it, then just don’t go. Like you said; your wife can go, and you can get some personal time for yourself.

Oh, and that passive-aggressive behavior from your mother in law?

This^

[tdood]

Read: Facing Codependence by Pia Mellody

There are some major relational and boundary issues in their family and there is no way it hasn’t rubbed off on you. It’s probably damaging your own home in ways you aren’t aware of.

This has been quite the saga to read, I’m sorry for all the difficulties.

[brkriete]

I think you mentioned earlier that this was a weight off your back. It 100% should be. Buying the cabin and banning Jeff from coming out unless he behaved was never going to work out and it was going to lead to perpetual conflicts where you would be the bad guy.

If I can offer some advice: Disengage. Don't comment on what you will or won't do. Don't argue about the nonsense mom is saying.

Don't say you're never going to shovel her out or fix a flat tire. That sounds like you are a grown adult throwing a tantrum. And you are painting yourself in a corner for the next time Jeff fails to come through and you end up helping anyway because your wife asks. In two months if the sidewalk needs shoveling you can always say "Jeff can catch this one." If mom needs advice on a mechanic for the junk car you made her buy just say "Sorry I can't think of anyone, maybe the dealership can help you." Announcing your intentions is just setting yourself up to either look like an asshole or break your word.

I went through plenty of this with my ex-wife (by the way, when you don't take the bait the next step will be mom getting 3rd parties involved and telling you that so-and-so said you're an a-hole because of blah blah blah). You will not change anyone's mind by engaging, all you will do is frustrate and upset yourself and if you act upset and angry, it's just going to make you look like an asshole.