Exodus Strength

Posted: **Sat Oct 22, 2022 6:04 am**

houzi wrote: ↑Sat Oct 22, 2022 12:00 am I think I have a suitably stupid question.....

So im mostly focusing on building my bench press recently, with squat and deadlift strength sort of on the back burner. Ive been messing around with extremely high rep deadlifts (why... dont know...) and I managed to hit 150kg x20. This was tough, but its at around 60% of my all time PR of 250kg. Does this "mean" anything? Does it imply that i should stick to higher reps, higher volumes, high intensitues, anything?
I ask because i remember @Hanley saying something about a person who could do a ton of reps at 70-80%, but wouldnt get close to projected E1RM strength. This is very much me on deadlifts, my E1RM has always been higher than what is estimated.

Doing 20 reps sets will lead to getting better at high rep sets. It will increase your anaerobic capacity, and it will probably lead to some hypertrophy. I believe it will be beneficial ofr your day to day life once you are past being sore and feeling underecovered from the volume. It's the kind of thing that makes your back more bulletproof, but I doubt that it has any direct impact on 1RM.
I have a question for you, which may qualify for the thread title. I thought E1RM stood for Estimated 1 Rep Max, which would make it "What is estimated", so what does that mean?

Posted: **Sat Oct 22, 2022 6:52 am**

A 20RM also leans really hard on intraset rest; how long you pause and breathe between reps, your mini-set strategy to get to 20, and to what degree you can unload during those rests (deadlift completely unload vs bench semi unload).

I think this all makes a 20RM a really squishy number, and why a 20RM LP can be very introspective. You have to keep breaking a bunch of unspoken rules before you either A) cross your personal boundary line of what defines a “set”, or B) chicken out.

There’s obviously a % intensity limit to what you can do for a “set” of 20, but the % intensity window for 20@10 is huge (unless you rigidly standardize your cadence and breaths-per-rep allowance upfront).

I guess what I’m saying is don’t rely on your 20RM to tell you much about your 1RM besides a grossly estimated number.

Posted: **Sat Oct 22, 2022 12:29 pm**

N=1 with regards to e1rms, mine breaks down after 10RM. I’ve done periods of pushing heavy top sets of 8 and 10 on bench and squat, and anything that I can do for more than 10 reps spits out an e1rm about 5% higher than what I know is possible.

So 10 reps @RPE8 gives me a fairytale max. 10 reps @RPE10 or 8 reps @RPE8 gives me something fairly accurate.

Posted: **Sat Oct 22, 2022 1:40 pm**

houzi wrote: ↑Sat Oct 22, 2022 12:00 am I think I have a suitably stupid question.....

So im mostly focusing on building my bench press recently, with squat and deadlift strength sort of on the back burner. Ive been messing around with extremely high rep deadlifts (why... dont know...) and I managed to hit 150kg x20. This was tough, but its at around 60% of my all time PR of 250kg. Does this "mean" anything? Does it imply that i should stick to higher reps, higher volumes, high intensitues, anything?
I ask because i remember @Hanley saying something about a person who could do a ton of reps at 70-80%, but wouldnt get close to projected E1RM strength. This is very much me on deadlifts, my E1RM has always been higher than what is estimated.

60% of your e1RM is exactly what Wendler's formula predicts.

Estimated 1 RM = Weight x Reps x 0.0333 + Weight
Weight / e1RM = 1 / (Reps x 0.0333 + 1)

Posted: **Sun Oct 23, 2022 1:38 pm**

broseph wrote: ↑Sat Oct 22, 2022 6:52 am A 20RM also leans really hard on intraset rest

To avoid the murkiness, I do high-rep sets touch-and-go. Typically, I strive for as many reps as possible in 60 seconds.

JohnHelton wrote: ↑Sat Oct 22, 2022 1:40 pm 60% of your e1RM is exactly what Wendler's formula predicts.

Yep. I've done 20 reps, touch-and-go, with 60% of my 1RM in 60 seconds.

Posted: **Sun Oct 23, 2022 3:40 pm**

EggMcMuffin wrote: ↑Thu Oct 20, 2022 11:05 am How do I cope with body dysmorphia? I'm nasty, brutish and short so I've always struggled with feeling comfortable in my own skin, but I never realized to the degree that gaining a bunch of weight (even "good weight") would fuck with my head. Of course I used to be freakishly skinny (135lbs at 5'9) when I was younger so I will always think I'm fat compared to that phase but Goddamn, I find myself freaking out each time my moob jiggles.

Probably a bad idea to ask this here but Barbell Medicine isn't really that open of a group anymore lol

Posted: **Mon Oct 24, 2022 5:45 am**

Allentown wrote: ↑Sun Oct 23, 2022 3:40 pm

Would!

Posted: **Mon Oct 24, 2022 6:04 am**

She has better biceps than me ... This is not helping ...

Posted: **Tue Oct 25, 2022 7:53 pm**

DCR wrote: ↑Tue Oct 11, 2022 4:10 pm
so I'm gonna stick with RDLs.

RDLs are great but I started doing Good Mornings (SSB) in their place 4 weeks ago and my low back feels better and stronger than it has in years. I think, as others have already said, they teach the hinge movement pattern better because there's literally nothing else to focus on. With RDLs you're worried about keeping your upper back tight, not losing your grip, etc (it's still a small distraction even with straps).

I could also RDL 250 for tons of reps but felt like 135 good mornings were going to fold me over so ended ups starting with only 85 lbs for sets of 10. Seems to be targeting a weakness RDLS were missing.

Posted: **Thu Oct 27, 2022 8:16 am**

Anybody pursuing a gripper strength program with fervor? I made some newb gains for a while then started rrbt, I've had more rest days than prescribed, I was kind of wary about overdoing it with small muscles, tendons and joints, read some accounts of serious grip programs making the hands stiff and sore, but some guys still push through it and make gains
I had a few days off to get rid of some fatigue then tried my coc#2 hoping there would be a noticeable increase in strength, but no!

Too much fatigue?? Not enough stimulus? I thought maybe focus on lighter grippers for high reps but aren't sure improving high reps is gonna get that #2 closed! Anybody any experience with similar programs?

Posted: **Thu Oct 27, 2022 8:59 am**

GeoffBUK wrote: ↑Thu Oct 27, 2022 8:16 am Anybody pursuing a gripper strength program with fervor? I made some newb gains for a while then started rrbt, I've had more rest days than prescribed, I was kind of wary about overdoing it with small muscles, tendons and joints, read some accounts of serious grip programs making the hands stiff and sore, but some guys still push through it and make gains
I had a few days off to get rid of some fatigue then tried my coc#2 hoping there would be a noticeable increase in strength, but no!

Too much fatigue?? Not enough stimulus? I thought maybe focus on lighter grippers for high reps but aren't sure improving high reps is gonna get that #2 closed! Anybody any experience with similar programs?

Without giving away the secret sauce to rrbt since it looks like it costs money, can you describe the general training schedule you used? Was it a linear progression type training? etc. etc. etc.

Also, what range of CoC grippers do you have?

Posted: **Thu Oct 27, 2022 10:05 am**

GeoffBUK wrote: ↑Thu Oct 27, 2022 8:16 am Anybody pursuing a gripper strength program with fervor? I made some newb gains for a while then started rrbt, I've had more rest days than prescribed, I was kind of wary about overdoing it with small muscles, tendons and joints, read some accounts of serious grip programs making the hands stiff and sore, but some guys still push through it and make gains
I had a few days off to get rid of some fatigue then tried my coc#2 hoping there would be a noticeable increase in strength, but no!

Too much fatigue?? Not enough stimulus? I thought maybe focus on lighter grippers for high reps but aren't sure improving high reps is gonna get that #2 closed! Anybody any experience with similar programs?

Never done an actual program but I’ve gotten my best results from doing ascending sets until I fail and then trying to beat my record next time. So 1 rep, rest, 2 reps, rest etc. so you get the benefits of a progressive warm up, plenty of submax volume, some harder sets and 1 set to failure. Plus more sets = more chance to work on your setting technique.

Went from a few reps with the CoC1 to over 10 reps with the CoC2 purely doing it this way. I have little baby hands as well.

Also gripper story from a few weeks ago: took my grippers into work so my friend could try before he buys. One of my managers is 47, doesn’t train but clearly has giants blood or something, 6’3, 130kg with forearms and hands like a grizzly bear. He asks to try them. He gave me a look after effortlessly closing the number 2 as if to say ‘is that good?’ and then got the number 3 to within about an inch.

Posted: **Thu Oct 27, 2022 11:11 am**

alek wrote: ↑Thu Oct 27, 2022 8:59 am
GeoffBUK wrote: ↑Thu Oct 27, 2022 8:16 am Anybody pursuing a gripper strength program with fervor? I made some newb gains for a while then started rrbt, I've had more rest days than prescribed, I was kind of wary about overdoing it with small muscles, tendons and joints, read some accounts of serious grip programs making the hands stiff and sore, but some guys still push through it and make gains
I had a few days off to get rid of some fatigue then tried my coc#2 hoping there would be a noticeable increase in strength, but no!

Too much fatigue?? Not enough stimulus? I thought maybe focus on lighter grippers for high reps but aren't sure improving high reps is gonna get that #2 closed! Anybody any experience with similar programs?
Without giving away the secret sauce to rrbt since it looks like it costs money, can you describe the general training schedule you used? Was it a linear progression type training? etc. etc. etc.

Also, what range of CoC grippers do you have?

I "borrowed" the rrbt program from a grip thread on this board, I'm not sure how to link threads but it's the exodus "grip strength, what why how when" thread from 2017, Idlehands posted most of the phases, it's pretty high workload, building volume with a '5' rep gripper and a '10' rep gripper
I have the coc#2 and 2.5 and also 3 off brand grippers to warm up with, maybe I shouldn't have been so tight with money and gone for all coc grippers, the off brand are ok but the red '200 lb' one is Way easier to close than the coc#2 195lb gripper, like 8-10 reps with the red and can't single the #2

Posted: **Thu Oct 27, 2022 11:20 am**

OverheadDeadlifts wrote: ↑Thu Oct 27, 2022 10:05 am
GeoffBUK wrote: ↑Thu Oct 27, 2022 8:16 am Anybody pursuing a gripper strength program with fervor? I made some newb gains for a while then started rrbt, I've had more rest days than prescribed, I was kind of wary about overdoing it with small muscles, tendons and joints, read some accounts of serious grip programs making the hands stiff and sore, but some guys still push through it and make gains
I had a few days off to get rid of some fatigue then tried my coc#2 hoping there would be a noticeable increase in strength, but no!

Too much fatigue?? Not enough stimulus? I thought maybe focus on lighter grippers for high reps but aren't sure improving high reps is gonna get that #2 closed! Anybody any experience with similar programs?
Never done an actual program but I’ve gotten my best results from doing ascending sets until I fail and then trying to beat my record next time. So 1 rep, rest, 2 reps, rest etc. so you get the benefits of a progressive warm up, plenty of submax volume, some harder sets and 1 set to failure. Plus more sets = more chance to work on your setting technique.

Went from a few reps with the CoC1 to over 10 reps with the CoC2 purely doing it this way. I have little baby hands as well.

Also gripper story from a few weeks ago: took my grippers into work so my friend could try before he buys. One of my managers is 47, doesn’t train but clearly has giants blood or something, 6’3, 130kg with forearms and hands like a grizzly bear. He asks to try them. He gave me a look after effortlessly closing the number 2 as if to say ‘is that good?’ and then got the number 3 to within about an inch.

Thanks, I might try that type of program, maybe rrbt was meant for more advanced grippers than I, only been at hand grippers 4-5 months
That's a cool story, closing the #2 that easily with no warm up's some natural raw strength, I've had the coc#2 to within a couple of millimeters after 4-5 months specific gripping but years of rows /TB deadlifts etc but I need a thorough warm up/priming to get that close, stone cold I'd probably not get the #2 within an inch!

Posted: **Thu Oct 27, 2022 11:34 am**

GeoffBUK wrote: ↑Thu Oct 27, 2022 11:11 am I "borrowed" the rrbt program from a grip thread on this board, I'm not sure how to link threads but it's the exodus "grip strength, what why how when" thread from 2017, Idlehands posted most of the phases, it's pretty high workload, building volume with a '5' rep gripper and a '10' rep gripper
I have the coc#2 and 2.5 and also 3 off brand grippers to warm up with, maybe I shouldn't have been so tight with money and gone for all coc grippers, the off brand are ok but the red '200 lb' one is Way easier to close than the coc#2 195lb gripper, like 8-10 reps with the red and can't single the #2

If you're in a thread, you can just copy and paste the url, a la

viewtopic.php?t=73

That's the thread you mean I think. I want to get back into gripping, so I'll check it out.

I would +1 for getting more of the CoC grippers. I think if you buy 3 straight from IronMind, you get a discount; I'm not sure it's worth it after shipping or to piecemeal them from Amazon, which is where I got most, if not all, of mine.

It looks like @OverheadDeadlifts has had some luck with their programming. When I give it another go, I think I'm going to try a DUP approach.

Posted: **Sun Nov 06, 2022 2:42 pm**

Why, far more so than anything else, do standing bicep movements cause multiple random muscles to cramp up? This shit with my obligues (among other things) spasming during curls is getting old fast.

Posted: **Sun Nov 06, 2022 4:58 pm**

Probably because you're using a bunch of other muscles to stop from throwing your self on the ground when you curl the weight. BB curls will light up the middle of my back if I'm doing them strict.

Posted: **Sun Nov 06, 2022 6:46 pm**

alek wrote: ↑Thu Oct 27, 2022 11:34 am
GeoffBUK wrote: ↑Thu Oct 27, 2022 11:11 am I "borrowed" the rrbt program from a grip thread on this board, I'm not sure how to link threads but it's the exodus "grip strength, what why how when" thread from 2017, Idlehands posted most of the phases, it's pretty high workload, building volume with a '5' rep gripper and a '10' rep gripper
I have the coc#2 and 2.5 and also 3 off brand grippers to warm up with, maybe I shouldn't have been so tight with money and gone for all coc grippers, the off brand are ok but the red '200 lb' one is Way easier to close than the coc#2 195lb gripper, like 8-10 reps with the red and can't single the #2
If you're in a thread, you can just copy and paste the url, a la

viewtopic.php?t=73

That's the thread you mean I think. I want to get back into gripping, so I'll check it out.

I would +1 for getting more of the CoC grippers. I think if you buy 3 straight from IronMind, you get a discount; I'm not sure it's worth it after shipping or to piecemeal them from Amazon, which is where I got most, if not all, of mine.

It looks like @OverheadDeadlifts has had some luck with their programming. When I give it another go, I think I'm going to try a DUP approach.

I have tried a few different programs to train grippers.

I also read a few years about a brittish guy (if I remember right) who closed the #3. His only training was just to carry a 100lb dumbbell with him everywhere he went.

After reading that I did a few walks after lifting where I just went around my neighborhood for 20 minutes or so with a 52lb kettlebell, switching hands as needed. This was after doing chins or Hangs (not to exhaustion).

I think it worked as well as grippers did for improving grippers. I closed in on the 2.5, never got it.

Posted: **Sun Nov 06, 2022 7:43 pm**

Does training your grip have upside, besides closing grippers? Kinda want to jump in, but I’m afraid of hurting my hands and not being able to play instruments and whatnot. Note that playing instruments is kind of in my dayjob description.

Posted: **Sun Nov 06, 2022 9:12 pm**

Anyone else have a huge left/right discrepancy on grippers, but not on stuff like static holds? I can close the #1 like 50 times with my right hand and like 20 times with my left hand, but my left hand isn't really giving out first on DOH holds or deadlifts.

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