How many bars do you own?

[mgil]

Which is by way of saying People did just fine training for decades without stiff powerbars, so for your average lifter a powerbar is a luxury not a necessity. Obviously however you are going to notice a big difference if you are going from a POS 130k psi bar.

Curious about what you're referring to on this point. As long as the bar diameters are the same and it stays straight upon unloading there shouldn't be a difference.

Biggest difference I could imagine is that the 130k psi bar has knurling that is terrible (done with a dull butter knife) whereas a decent bar made of good steel is usually well-knurled with proper tooling.

[damufunman]

Which is by way of saying People did just fine training for decades without stiff powerbars, so for your average lifter a powerbar is a luxury not a necessity. Obviously however you are going to notice a big difference if you are going from a POS 130k psi bar.

Curious about what you're referring to on this point. As long as the bar diameters are the same and it stays straight upon unloading there shouldn't be a difference.

Biggest difference I could imagine is that the 130k psi bar has knurling that is terrible (done with a dull butter knife) whereas a decent bar made of good steel is usually well-knurled with proper tooling.

I suppose. But you could also just have shit knurling on a high tensile strength bar...

The tensile strength marketing just pisses me off.

[AdamSkillin]

People did just fine training for decades without stiff bars, so for your average lifter a powerbar is a luxury not a necessity.

You are correct. I was more talking about the point at which the flex in the bar is going to be so significant that it might amount to an actual significant difference in what you can lift (particular for squat), where you might 'need' a powerbar.

IIRC, 200K or 120K has very little do with the actually bending, whip, or bounce .... that is 99% determined by diameter.

I swear I can feel a noticeable difference between the flex-osity between the B&R, andf the OPB and between the OPB and the Eleiko Power bars that I've used at competitions, despite all being 29mm bars. I believe the tensile strengths are 190k, 205k and 215k respectively. There's definitely not some other metric I'm unaware of that happens to correlate with PSI that explains this perceived phenomenon? To me, it definitely seems to make more than 1kg of difference, and I really don't believe it's all in my head (I distinctly remember being surprised by the stiffness of a 29mm Eleiko when deadlifting at my first USAPL meet after training exclusively with the B&R).

I definitely am on the same page as 51M0N that a decent-quality barbell with low PSI (relevance debateable at best), a thinner diameter, and ok knurling (Cap OB-86B comes to mind, XMark and a few others might make similar bars these days, but I don't have first hand experience with any besides the Cap) is adequate equipment for getting strong, and nobody absolutely needs a stiffer bar, although it's certainly a good idea for competitors to practice on the closest available thing to what they'll use in competition. Also, buying more bars is fun.

[mbasic]

People did just fine training for decades without stiff bars, so for your average lifter a powerbar is a luxury not a necessity.

You are correct. I was more talking about the point at which the flex in the bar is going to be so significant that it might amount to an actual significant difference in what you can lift (particular for squat), where you might 'need' a powerbar.

IIRC, 200K or 120K has very little do with the actually bending, whip, or bounce .... that is 99% determined by diameter.

I swear I can feel a noticeable difference between the flex-osity between the B&R, andf the OPB and between the OPB and the Eleiko Power bars that I've used at competitions, despite all being 29mm bars. I believe the tensile strengths are 190k, 205k and 215k respectively. There's definitely not some other metric I'm unaware of that happens to correlate with PSI that explains this perceived phenomenon? To me, it definitely seems to make more than 1kg of difference, and I really don't believe it's all in my head (I distinctly remember being surprised by the stiffness of a 29mm Eleiko when deadlifting at my first USAPL meet after training exclusively with the B&R).

I definitely am on the same page as 51M0N that a decent-quality barbell with low PSI (relevance debateable at best), a thinner diameter, and ok knurling (Cap OB-86B comes to mind, XMark and a few others might make similar bars these days, but I don't have first hand experience with any besides the Cap) is adequate equipment for getting strong, and nobody absolutely needs a stiffer bar, although it's certainly a good idea for competitors to practice on the closest available thing to what they'll use in competition. Also, buying more bars is fun.

The knurling maybe.
Knurling can be cut or "mashed" into the surface. That might alter the "net diameter" of the bar.
The metal area closest to the surface of a cylinder does the more "work" ... it carries the most tension. ..... the very absolute "skin" of the bar.

Also, if used an Eleiko Power Bar at a comp .... were you using thin calibrated comp plates?
If so, do you also use thin comp plates at home?
IIRC, the Eleiko PowerLifting bar has very thin collar sleeves; they are like thick washers instead of actual collars (mini-cylinder).
Granted, this is minor compared effect of thin plates...but those two things combined would be more significant ...compared to standard plates and a thicker collar sleeve. (i.e. the COM of the plates being moved inward)

[AdamSkillin]

People did just fine training for decades without stiff bars, so for your average lifter a powerbar is a luxury not a necessity.

You are correct. I was more talking about the point at which the flex in the bar is going to be so significant that it might amount to an actual significant difference in what you can lift (particular for squat), where you might 'need' a powerbar.

IIRC, 200K or 120K has very little do with the actually bending, whip, or bounce .... that is 99% determined by diameter.

I swear I can feel a noticeable difference between the flex-osity between the B&R, andf the OPB and between the OPB and the Eleiko Power bars that I've used at competitions, despite all being 29mm bars. I believe the tensile strengths are 190k, 205k and 215k respectively. There's definitely not some other metric I'm unaware of that happens to correlate with PSI that explains this perceived phenomenon? To me, it definitely seems to make more than 1kg of difference, and I really don't believe it's all in my head (I distinctly remember being surprised by the stiffness of a 29mm Eleiko when deadlifting at my first USAPL meet after training exclusively with the B&R).

I definitely am on the same page as 51M0N that a decent-quality barbell with low PSI (relevance debateable at best), a thinner diameter, and ok knurling (Cap OB-86B comes to mind, XMark and a few others might make similar bars these days, but I don't have first hand experience with any besides the Cap) is adequate equipment for getting strong, and nobody absolutely needs a stiffer bar, although it's certainly a good idea for competitors to practice on the closest available thing to what they'll use in competition. Also, buying more bars is fun.

The knurling maybe.
Knurling can be cut or "mashed" into the surface. That might alter the "net diameter" of the bar.
The metal area closest to the surface of a cylinder does the more "work" ... it carries the most tension. ..... the very absolute "skin" of the bar.

Also, if used an Eleiko Power Bar at a comp .... were you using thin calibrated comp plates?
If so, do you also use thin comp plates at home?
IIRC, the Eleiko PowerLifting bar has very thin collar sleeves; they are like thick washers instead of actual collars (mini-cylinder).
Granted, this is minor compared effect of thin plates...but those two things combined would be more significant ...compared to standard plates and a thicker collar sleeve. (i.e. the COM of the plates being moved inward)

Maybe, but an OPB and a B&R feel like they have different "whip" to me even loaded with the same plates. And I don't think the knurling is cut deeper in the B&R, but probably the opposite. Regardless, some people believe in astrology, some believe in homeopathic "medicine," and I guess my anti-science belief that there's something besides bar diameter affecting how much a bar whips at the bottom of a bench press or flexes during the pre-pull pull of a deadlift. Could be worse.

[mbasic]

... and I guess my anti-science belief that there's something besides bar diameter affecting how much a bar whips at the bottom of a bench press or flexes during the pre-pull pull of a deadlift. Could be worse.

.... that's the science reported to me by others you are in the know about the properties and characteristics of steel.

The bench press thing is odd to me. You can feel "it" with a sub 400-500 paused bench press? .... hands out fairly wide?

I get deadlifts, and even squats.
I can feel the squishiness of an Olympic WL over a 29-32mm shit bar even with lightly loaded Olympic lifts I'm doing
(recatching jerks, and recatching cleans, and some heavier pulls).

But bench?

[AdamSkillin]

... and I guess my anti-science belief that there's something besides bar diameter affecting how much a bar whips at the bottom of a bench press or flexes during the pre-pull pull of a deadlift. Could be worse.

.... that's the science reported to me by others you are in the know about the properties and characteristics of steel.

The bench press thing is odd to me. You can feel "it" with a sub 400-500 paused bench press? .... hands out fairly wide?

I get deadlifts, and even squats.
I can feel the squishiness of an Olympic WL over a 29-32mm shit bar even with lightly loaded Olympic lifts I'm doing
(recatching jerks, and recatching cleans, and some heavier pulls).

But bench?

Yeah, noticeably different sensation of stiffness vs whip at 275 with my index fingers on the rings. Literally did the "experiment" 2 days ago when my new OPB arrived mid-workout. (Yeah, I got excited about new equipment and changed out the bars between sets. Sue me.) Obviously I cannot measure this with anything but my subjective brain.

[Skander]

I've got 3 bars- Pendlay needle bearing, rep SS power bar (old version), synergee curl bar. Also have 4 total spinlock 1" DB handles.

I got the power bar because I wanted a second bar for supersets and wanted center knurl. It can be nice, but I can really squat with either. Bench is nicer with the power bar though. I do wish I had a second station for squatting while the bench is in the rack- I don't love doing a quarter squat before each squat set when going off my jerk blocks.

The thing I'm increasingly wondering about some home gyms is how anyone has time to use all that stuff. I'm having trouble getting time to just hit squat+bench+some accessories, and I see people with stuff for 100 different exercises... I just don't have the time for more than maybe 15 different exercises in a week...

[AdamSkillin]

The thing I'm increasingly wondering about some home gyms is how anyone has time to use all that stuff. I'm having trouble getting time to just hit squat+bench+some accessories, and I see people with stuff for 100 different exercises... I just don't have the time for more than maybe 15 different exercises in a week...

Some of us like toys, some cycle through different accessory (or even main) lifts throughout or across training cycles, some of us have other family members who lift and/or clients that we coach in our home gyms. But definitely some of us like toys. It's definitely the case that not all of my equipment is "in rotation" at any given time.

[mgil]

@AdamSkillin, I’ve noticed some deflection with 405 loaded on a OPB that wasn’t there on the B&R (Rogue).

[AdamSkillin]

I have the older York B&R. And a new OPB. I'm sure I could figure out a way to measure the deflection, videotape a pull at something like 455 on both bars, and see which one is more bent when the plates leave the floor. If I care enough to one of these days. @mgil

[mgil]

I was just using my calibrated eyeball

[TimK]

The thing I'm increasingly wondering about some home gyms is how anyone has time to use all that stuff. I'm having trouble getting time to just hit squat+bench+some accessories, and I see people with stuff for 100 different exercises... I just don't have the time for more than maybe 15 different exercises in a week...

For me it's just fun to have lots of different options and doing new exercises with different equipment is actually giving me a lot of motivation to train right now. For a long time I was your typical squat/bench/dead/press guy and focused on driving up my 1RM in those lifts. Right now I'm just trying to lose fat while maintaining/regaining some muscle, and I'm doing true bodybuilding style training (not "powerbuilding" like I've tried in the past where I just end up grinding 3-5RM's on the big three and tweak my back after 8 weeks). I'm not going lower than 8 reps on anything and keeping rest periods 2.5 - 5 minutes depending on the lift. I'm training 5 days per week and doing 27 movements total right now and I'm going to keep this up for a good while I think, rotating out movements when I get tired of them or stop making progress on them. I definitely plan to focus on powerlifting again at some point in the future and that might mean that half my equipment goes untouched for months at a time, but I know it will be waiting for me when I'm ready to mix it up again.

[Skander]

It wasn't meant as a criticism, just that man... I miss when I had more time pre kid. Ahh, to be able to take 12 minute rests again...

[Cleverusername]

I voted three bars.
(3) Olympic bars
axle bar
ez curl bar
shitty tricep bar I’m not sure why I bought.

Would like to add a SSB or open style trap bar, or get both. But will probably wait until I have more room for gym equipment.

[murphyreedus]

It wasn't meant as a criticism, just that man... I miss when I had more time pre kid. Ahh, to be able to take 12 minute rests again...

Not sure how old your kid is, but I think I know what you mean. 6 and 2 here, and during the week it's pretty much a whirlwind from the time they get home to the time they finally pass out. By the point that I'd be free to lift my motivation is in freefall. Even with the gym right downstairs it's hard to get psyched up to lift heavy when I'm ready to go to bed. I telework and I'm salaried, so I usually just lift over lunch and flex my work start/stop times around if lifting runs long. Without that convenience I'd probably be doing very abbreviated sessions on week nights.

As for having so much equipment, well, most people have some kind of collection, but at least mine is harder to kill and more useful in general. I'd say I'm using 8 of the bars I have at least weekly throughout the year, and most of the others get rotated in due to injury/boredom/whatever. I could absolutely pare down to a few bars, but the variety helps keep things interesting, and I like having a gym in my house rather than just a home gym.

[Allentown]

It wasn't meant as a criticism, just that man... I miss when I had more time pre kid. Ahh, to be able to take 12 minute rests again...

Not sure how old your kid is, but I think I know what you mean. 6 and 2 here, and during the week it's pretty much a whirlwind from the time they get home to the time they finally pass out. By the point that I'd be free to lift my motivation is in freefall. Even with the gym right downstairs it's hard to get psyched up to lift heavy when I'm ready to go to bed. I telework and I'm salaried, so I usually just lift over lunch and flex my work start/stop times around if lifting runs long. Without that convenience I'd probably be doing very abbreviated sessions on week nights.

As for having so much equipment, well, most people have some kind of collection, but at least mine is harder to kill and more useful in general. I'd say I'm using 8 of the bars I have at least weekly throughout the year, and most of the others get rotated in due to injury/boredom/whatever. I could absolutely pare down to a few bars, but the variety helps keep things interesting, and I like having a gym in my house rather than just a home gym.

5 AM is always there.

[murphyreedus]

5 AM is always there.

[lonestar777]

5 AM is always there.

Yep, this was life changing for me. I'm a night owl by nature. I hate having to go to bed early and get up early. But this was the only way I've been able to train consistently. I also do remote work and have a home gym. I tried to do the lunch thing for a while, but there were too many days when a lunch meeting came up and messed up my workout. By the way, my kids are 18 and 14 now and it's not much easier from a time perspective. In some ways it's worse, because the younger kids would eventually get tired and fall asleep. Dawn patrol is where it's at for me, and I've grown to enjoy it as a good way to start my day.

I already responded on the bars. I have a feeling an SSB will be in my future. Already have the hex bar. They are both a lot easier to use, and my main goal is general strength. I have way too many toys for how weak I am!

[Hardartery]

Tensile Strength
Tensile strength is the amount of pressure necessary to pull the steel apart if you pulled the weightlifting bar outward from each sleeve. Although tensile strength tells us a lot about an Olympic bar’s strength, it doesn’t directly tell us about its capacity to retain its straightness under pressure. Yield strength is the measure that tells us the amount of pressure necessary to cause a bar to take on permanent bend. Bar manufacturer’s use tensile strength as an indicator of the quality of steel. Tensile strength highly-corresponds to yield strength. The higher the tensile strength, the less likely the Olympic bar will permanently bend under load. ----
from https://blogs.gopherperformance.com/201 ... s-anatomy/
From what I read, diameter does affect flex, but the alloy is the main factor and the difference between a stiff bar and a flexible one is Yield strength, which nobody wants to tell you.