Tales from the Office Space: Complain about your coworkers

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Renascent
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Re: Tales from the Office Space: Complain about your coworkers

#921

Post by Renascent » Wed Apr 06, 2022 1:08 pm

mouse wrote: Wed Apr 06, 2022 11:28 am
Renascent wrote: Wed Apr 06, 2022 9:42 am Is strenuity a requirement for owning or utilizing a home gym, though? If Joe Blow owns his/her/their own shit, I suppose they're free to do with it whatever they please, progressive overload be damned. Physical hardship for the sake of itself isn't all that glamorous to the average pedestrian, and who says it has to be? Rip? Especially if you can complete the same menial work, at work, in a smarter fashion...

Someone in their own home gym endlessly doing circuit training with the same pair of dumbbells might not be neurologically conditioned or prepared to lift anything heavier than they're accustomed to, and (thankfully) said user might know their own limits. Or maybe they only give a fuck about heart health or sinew or looking decent without clothes.

Though it's nothing to brag about, I work with plenty of people who probably can't (or aren't willing to) lift an arbitrary number of pounds' worth of some shit they don't personally own, and aren't willing to incur the intimate risk of tearing something. They come get me to move their desktops when IT takes too long to respond to a ticket, and the first thing I always hear is, "Don't hurt yourself!" It's not because they doubt I can lift it; it's because they know it would really suck ass for anyone to tear something -- under any circumstances -- for an employer and not for the physical fulfillment that a hobby like lifting entails.

And, as was pointed out, the employer's going to set the ceiling real low to avoid a lawsuit. If the sign said to get a dolly for anything weighing over 250, and someone fucks up a bicep or a hamstring lifting 200, well ... that employer's legal team is likely a stable of dum-dums.
This is a really long post to refute that there a lot of "Make sure not to lift X because you'll blow a disc!" comments on internet lifting videos...

It wasn't a critique or commentary on different training mentalities or styles.

The comments I've seen also frequently come from people who consider themselves lifters.

Edit:  let's not let my frustration about people who used to bench 500 back in high school telling kids that deadlifting anything over 135 is 'ego lifting' that will put them in a wheelchair detract from the humorous posters about needing a pallet jack to lift more than 30 32 lbs
Eh, post length aside, my point was that, yeah, while I couldn't imagine myself needing a pallet jack to lift 30 lbs, I can definitely imagine that choice being considered a wiser course of action for plenty of other folks.

Ronnie in mail processing, with his spinal fusion surgery, or Phyllis in accounting who can barely bend her knees to tie her own shoes -- neither would make good candidates for colleagues whom I'd feel inclined to convince that they can lift something they're wary of lifting.

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Re: Tales from the Office Space: Complain about your coworkers

#922

Post by SnakePlissken » Thu Apr 07, 2022 6:14 am

mouse wrote: Wed Apr 06, 2022 11:28 am
Renascent wrote: Wed Apr 06, 2022 9:42 am Is strenuity a requirement for owning or utilizing a home gym, though? If Joe Blow owns his/her/their own shit, I suppose they're free to do with it whatever they please, progressive overload be damned. Physical hardship for the sake of itself isn't all that glamorous to the average pedestrian, and who says it has to be? Rip? Especially if you can complete the same menial work, at work, in a smarter fashion...

Someone in their own home gym endlessly doing circuit training with the same pair of dumbbells might not be neurologically conditioned or prepared to lift anything heavier than they're accustomed to, and (thankfully) said user might know their own limits. Or maybe they only give a fuck about heart health or sinew or looking decent without clothes.

Though it's nothing to brag about, I work with plenty of people who probably can't (or aren't willing to) lift an arbitrary number of pounds' worth of some shit they don't personally own, and aren't willing to incur the intimate risk of tearing something. They come get me to move their desktops when IT takes too long to respond to a ticket, and the first thing I always hear is, "Don't hurt yourself!" It's not because they doubt I can lift it; it's because they know it would really suck ass for anyone to tear something -- under any circumstances -- for an employer and not for the physical fulfillment that a hobby like lifting entails.

And, as was pointed out, the employer's going to set the ceiling real low to avoid a lawsuit. If the sign said to get a dolly for anything weighing over 250, and someone fucks up a bicep or a hamstring lifting 200, well ... that employer's legal team is likely a stable of dum-dums.
This is a really long post to refute that there a lot of "Make sure not to lift X because you'll blow a disc!" comments on internet lifting videos...

It wasn't a critique or commentary on different training mentalities or styles.

The comments I've seen also frequently come from people who consider themselves lifters.

Edit: let's not let my frustration about people who used to bench 500 back in high school telling kids that deadlifting anything over 135 is 'ego lifting' that will put them in a wheelchair detract from the humorous posters about needing a pallet jack to lift more than 30 32 lbs
The 30lb rule is dumb until you're the large corporation that has to deal with liability claims and lawsuits. Also for the record I never understood the line "lift with your legs, not your back" like, how the hell do you pick something up without loading your back?

My new workplace is about 30 people total and is about 2/3 engineers so nobody really abides by that, but making work instructions for assembling a motor for a customer, I have to write weights of different things so that at their manufacturing facility they know they need to use a jib or something to lower a bearing into a housing when in reality it just weighs 40 pounds and you could put your fingers in some eyelets. I guarentee technicians at these companies just ignore my weight recommendations and I don't blame them one bit.

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Re: Tales from the Office Space: Complain about your coworkers

#923

Post by 5hout » Thu Apr 07, 2022 6:26 am

SnakePlissken wrote: Thu Apr 07, 2022 6:14 am
The 30lb rule is dumb until you're the large corporation that has to deal with liability claims and lawsuits. Also for the record I never understood the line "lift with your legs, not your back" like, how the hell do you pick something up without loading your back?
It's not loading, it's lifting with your back. People will bend like they're going to do a cat backed deadlift, lock their legs and extend their back to pick stuff up, doing all of the moving via the action of arching and unarching their spine. This is why it's 30lbs, b/c for random out of shape office blobs doing this with 40 lbs is going to be problem. Especially when they go to set it down at a weird distance and angle so are catbacking while twisting and holding their arms half out with 30+lbs.

Can't trust them to not be morons, so label assuming they are an idiot office blob.

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Re: Tales from the Office Space: Complain about your coworkers

#924

Post by BostonRugger » Thu Apr 07, 2022 6:33 am

The team at work delivers big, heavy furniture up narrow flights of stairs into people's tiny 4th floor walkups. They get a kick out of the weight advisory signs in the warehouse/cartons.

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Re: Tales from the Office Space: Complain about your coworkers

#925

Post by brkriete » Thu Apr 07, 2022 6:50 am

BostonRugger wrote: Thu Apr 07, 2022 6:33 am The team at work delivers big, heavy furniture up narrow flights of stairs into people's tiny 4th floor walkups. They get a kick out of the weight advisory signs in the warehouse/cartons.
I got a spin bike delivered (100+ lbs) and the (small) guy delivering it threw it up in the air over his head and walked it down my whole, not short, driveway before putting it down on my porch. I was impressed.

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Re: Tales from the Office Space: Complain about your coworkers

#926

Post by Renascent » Thu Apr 07, 2022 7:12 am

5hout wrote: Thu Apr 07, 2022 6:26 am
SnakePlissken wrote: Thu Apr 07, 2022 6:14 am
The 30lb rule is dumb until you're the large corporation that has to deal with liability claims and lawsuits. Also for the record I never understood the line "lift with your legs, not your back" like, how the hell do you pick something up without loading your back?
It's not loading, it's lifting with your back. People will bend like they're going to do a cat backed deadlift, lock their legs and extend their back to pick stuff up, doing all of the moving via the action of arching and unarching their spine. This is why it's 30lbs, b/c for random out of shape office blobs doing this with 40 lbs is going to be problem. Especially when they go to set it down at a weird distance and angle so are catbacking while twisting and holding their arms half out with 30+lbs.

Can't trust them to not be morons, so label assuming they are an idiot office blob.
Yup.

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Re: Tales from the Office Space: Complain about your coworkers

#927

Post by DCR » Thu Apr 07, 2022 10:32 am

brkriete wrote: Thu Apr 07, 2022 6:50 am
BostonRugger wrote: Thu Apr 07, 2022 6:33 am The team at work delivers big, heavy furniture up narrow flights of stairs into people's tiny 4th floor walkups. They get a kick out of the weight advisory signs in the warehouse/cartons.
I got a spin bike delivered (100+ lbs) and the (small) guy delivering it threw it up in the air over his head and walked it down my whole, not short, driveway before putting it down on my porch. I was impressed.
Just had a junk lugging vendor take away a fridge that weighed around the same. No particularly heavy but I had assumed it would be very unwieldy due to length/width/lack of handholds.

Not for the average looking dude who showed up.

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Re: Tales from the Office Space: Complain about your coworkers

#928

Post by hector » Thu Apr 07, 2022 10:43 am

DCR wrote: Thu Apr 07, 2022 10:32 am
brkriete wrote: Thu Apr 07, 2022 6:50 am
BostonRugger wrote: Thu Apr 07, 2022 6:33 am The team at work delivers big, heavy furniture up narrow flights of stairs into people's tiny 4th floor walkups. They get a kick out of the weight advisory signs in the warehouse/cartons.
I got a spin bike delivered (100+ lbs) and the (small) guy delivering it threw it up in the air over his head and walked it down my whole, not short, driveway before putting it down on my porch. I was impressed.
Just had a junk lugging vendor take away a fridge that weighed around the same. No particularly heavy but I had assumed it would be very unwieldy due to length/width/lack of handholds.

Not for the average looking dude who showed up.
Juji went to the mall and set up a kiosk and tested random people's grip strength.
The strongest guy, who did some impressive grip fear i cant remember, didn't even exercise. Juji asked what he did and the guy was a furniture mover.

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Re: Tales from the Office Space: Complain about your coworkers

#929

Post by Allentown » Tue May 10, 2022 1:29 pm

Since I work from home now and I don't feel like either digging up a different thread or starting a new one:
Fuck the person/people who keep putting their dog shit bags in my yard waste bins, or worse not picking it up at all. Three bags dropped in my bin today. At least four times a year in the spring-fall I get a sticker on my bin saying "no plastic waste!" threatening to charge me extra when I don't catch it and pull the bags out before they come pick up my bins, which I usually don't even put out until the night before.
I started just throwing it all into the road. Not my job to pick up after them.

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Re: Tales from the Office Space: Complain about your coworkers

#930

Post by hector » Tue May 10, 2022 7:16 pm

Allentown wrote: Tue May 10, 2022 1:29 pm Since I work from home now and I don't feel like either digging up a different thread or starting a new one:
Fuck the person/people who keep putting their dog shit bags in my yard waste bins, or worse not picking it up at all. Three bags dropped in my bin today. At least four times a year in the spring-fall I get a sticker on my bin saying "no plastic waste!" threatening to charge me extra when I don't catch it and pull the bags out before they come pick up my bins, which I usually don't even put out until the night before.
I started just throwing it all into the road. Not my job to pick up after them.
There was a TV show where this happened.
I think the homeowner installed cameras and tracked down the garbage-can-violating-dog-poop offender.
But it was a Pyrrhic victory. The process of catching the offender drove the homeowner insane.

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Re: Tales from the Office Space: Complain about your coworkers

#931

Post by EggMcMuffin » Sun May 22, 2022 5:20 pm

How do people do the workplace politics thing successfully? I'm not looking to be a social climber or anything, I'm just kinda of tired of being hated by management at like every job I work at lol. It's almost like if you don't participate in people's weird little social games they hate you, and if you do you still wind up being crapped on just because I'm the kind of person who is waaaay too honest/naive to be manipulative or adept at maneuvering those sorts of interactions in any sort of way.

Like part of me thinks I need to work on being more outwardly "fake" to get into people's good graces but that is exhausting. I sometimes think I might be autistic, I'm just not made for that time of thing.

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Re: Tales from the Office Space: Complain about your coworkers

#932

Post by Hanley » Sun May 22, 2022 7:08 pm

Anaphase wrote: Sun May 22, 2022 5:20 pmpart of me thinks I need to work on being more outwardly "fake" to get into people's good graces
You might try to genuinely care about them (*shrug emoji*).

I try really hard to cultivate and sustain something like (hand wave) jesus-y love for the people I'm around every day.

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Re: Tales from the Office Space: Complain about your coworkers

#933

Post by mouse » Mon May 23, 2022 3:17 am

Anaphase wrote: Sun May 22, 2022 5:20 pm you still wind up being crapped on just because I'm the kind of person who is waaaay too honest/naive to be manipulative or adept at maneuvering those sorts of interactions in any sort of way.
Not entirely sure if this is where you were going or what you meant, but I too have a history of clashing with management types/people above me because I'm very straight forward and typically brutally honest with them about things. I feel you on the (seemingly) phony personas thing and I'm a good example that you are absolutely not alone in not being able to do that...

I had a teacher/professor one time tell us back in school when writing a paper how to deal with not knowing how to answer a topic:

"If you can't dazzle me with your brilliance, baffle me with bullshit."

And while I never was very good at that, I am keenly aware of people who have managed to turn it into successful careers.

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Re: Tales from the Office Space: Complain about your coworkers

#934

Post by Brackish » Mon May 23, 2022 3:55 am

Anaphase wrote: Sun May 22, 2022 5:20 pm How do people do the workplace politics thing successfully? I'm not looking to be a social climber or anything, I'm just kinda of tired of being hated by management at like every job I work at lol. It's almost like if you don't participate in people's weird little social games they hate you, and if you do you still wind up being crapped on just because I'm the kind of person who is waaaay too honest/naive to be manipulative or adept at maneuvering those sorts of interactions in any sort of way.

Like part of me thinks I need to work on being more outwardly "fake" to get into people's good graces but that is exhausting. I sometimes think I might be autistic, I'm just not made for that time of thing.
Fake it 'til you make it. All jokes aside, there are a few of my co-workers that I absolutely, positively despise. They make my skin crawl. When I'm around them, I'm exceedingly polite but always actively engaged in finding a way out of the conversation.

As far as making management like (or tolerate) you, try to engage in more little bullshit social interactions that have absolutely no meaning whatsoever. Complain about the weather. Complain about gas prices. Complain about taxes. People bond (even if it's a fake one) easily when sharing miseries. This also works for individuals with Autism Spectrum Disorder, if you truly have it. It just takes a lot of practice and a willingness to fuck up occasionally, because you will fuck it up.

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Re: Tales from the Office Space: Complain about your coworkers

#935

Post by 5hout » Mon May 23, 2022 5:14 am

Anaphase wrote: Sun May 22, 2022 5:20 pm How do people do the workplace politics thing successfully? I'm not looking to be a social climber or anything, I'm just kinda of tired of being hated by management at like every job I work at lol. It's almost like if you don't participate in people's weird little social games they hate you, and if you do you still wind up being crapped on just because I'm the kind of person who is waaaay too honest/naive to be manipulative or adept at maneuvering those sorts of interactions in any sort of way.

Like part of me thinks I need to work on being more outwardly "fake" to get into people's good graces but that is exhausting. I sometimes think I might be autistic, I'm just not made for that time of thing.
1. I would suggest a few books, some directly related, others helpful but more tangential.
1a. How to Win Friends and Influence People. At least skim it. Evidence suggests that you might benefit from someone breaking down how to fake it for you. I suspect your natural instincts are hella off, so borrow techniques from the best.
1b. Getting to Yes. Classic of the workplace negotiation genre. If all your bosses dislike you it probably means you're shit at negotiating and it slowly poisons your relationships with those above you.
1c. Inner Game of Tennis. Ok, the benefit of this book could be summed up as "focus on the goal, learn techniques to get there, but don't become anal about how to apply them, you need to apply them in a goal/outcome focused way and let it evolve naturally". You might find it helpful to get that in more words.
1d. The Dilbert Principle. The original is quite good as an office explainer book, and while it's funny, it is a lot closer to a workplace book than anything else. I think seeing his breakdown of office politics will help you gameify them.
1e. https://thezvi.wordpress.com/category/moral-mazes/ AND https://thezvi.wordpress.com/category/i ... -sequence/, you need to read Moral Mazes 1st (go back pages till 1st in time, read forward then do the same for immoral mazes). This is a very lengthy series based on "Moral Mazes" By Robert Jackall. It's a long read, but I think it will help you breakdown the logical illogic and maybe, once you've done that, you can move past the paralysis by analysis that is likely causing you to react too slowly or inappropriately in the OODA loops of office life.

2. "It's almost like if you don't participate in people's weird little social games they hate you,". Yes? Exactly? No shit? Maybe I should add "https://www.ribbonfarm.com/2009/10/07/t ... he-office/" to the reading list. If you don't participate in the games you're showing that you are better or different from them. You need to fit yourself into the office hierarchy or you will get fit in. If you don't find a way to fit in, and aren't the head honco or obviously coolest/suavest guy, the natural place to slot your in is the bottom.

You play the games to show you "care", participating in the little things slots you into the social hierarchy and shows them you're and ok kind of guy. If you can't be bothered to do this, the assumption will be you think you're too good for them or are a loser.

3. "and if you do you still wind up being crapped on just because I'm the kind of person who is waaaay too honest". Let me tell you, as a manager, what I read when someone says "too honest". I read "asshole". I don't go to work to put up with asshole underlings or people at my level. I'll eat shit from my boss, but I'll be fucked if I'm eating shit from people at my level/below me. It's not enough to shut your trap, although that's a good start, you need to project "Happy Warrior", or at least "Befuddled Kind Person" (but, as you're young, this befuddled kind person mask will probably fuck your chances at promotion".

4. "naive to be manipulative or adept at maneuvering those sorts of interactions in any sort of way". I believe your bad at this, but if it doesn't come naturally to you than you need to learn from those who have gone before and get good at it.

THIS IS THE WORKPLACE. Your actual abilities are a very small part of your job, 99% of jobs, and it is your ability to get stuff done while managing interpersonal relationships that matters. Getting "the job" done is great, but it's how you package it to others, package yourself, and handle all the other stuff that people care about. Most jobs can be done by, idk, 6 out of 10 applicants (if not more). Even people are kind of shit at the job, a lot of time that doesn't actually matter so much. What does matter is how they fit into the office. Do they make more work for their manager (a huge sin)? This work might be smoothing troubled waters, communicating poorly with management, ruffling feathers. If you're creating this, you're a shit employee, even if your listed tasks are being crushed.

It sounds like you're creating non-task problems, and that's why people sour on you. Read some management/interpersonal relationship mechanics books and learn to fake it better. Or just chain watch the office and make it your life goal to imitate Phyllis/Oscar.

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Re: Tales from the Office Space: Complain about your coworkers

#936

Post by mouse » Mon May 23, 2022 6:41 am

5hout wrote: Mon May 23, 2022 5:14 am Let me tell you, as a manager, what I read when someone says "too honest". I read "asshole". I don't go to work to put up with asshole underlings or people at my level.
See...

In defense of people like me, the most recent exchange would be pointing out to the engineer about to be receiving a new product needed that he needed to specify he had a particular sized mounting plate in mind for the tooling he is getting to put on his production line before it was designed, not two weeks out from transfer and expecting it to be changed/delivered on time, and I told him as such.

Engineer thinks I'm an asshole, but he's the guy who waited so damned long on a detail that ends up wasting my time.

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Re: Tales from the Office Space: Complain about your coworkers

#937

Post by 5hout » Mon May 23, 2022 7:15 am

mouse wrote: Mon May 23, 2022 6:41 am
5hout wrote: Mon May 23, 2022 5:14 am Let me tell you, as a manager, what I read when someone says "too honest". I read "asshole". I don't go to work to put up with asshole underlings or people at my level.
See...

In defense of people like me, the most recent exchange would be pointing out to the engineer about to be receiving a new product needed that he needed to specify he had a particular sized mounting plate in mind for the tooling he is getting to put on his production line before it was designed, not two weeks out from transfer and expecting it to be changed/delivered on time, and I told him as such.

Engineer thinks I'm an asshole, but he's the guy who waited so damned long on a detail that ends up wasting my time.
That's being honest. I wouldn't describe that as being too honest. It's the "too" part that worries me. Ok, actually I'm always slightly concerned if someone says they are "honest", like was the default assumption you were a lying a shitbag? But, when people offer up "too honest" it's usually code for "can't manage interpersonal relationships/am an asshat". "Tell it like it is" is another red alert phrase.

Also, sometimes you have to be "too honest' b/c people are taking advantage of you and you're backed into a corner. Usually you could avoid it by preemptive action, but the occasional elbow lets people know you're not a scrub. Just make sure it is occasional...

I'm trying to find a good way to put this. I think most every situation has a bunch of potential responses. There's a difference between being an actual no-nonsense straight shooter, and being the kind of guy people ironically describe as "he thinks he's as straight shooter". Same as there's a difference with being clear and direct, but appropriate, with someone that's fucked up and being an asshole about it. It's important to make sure that the behaviors you choose don't aim at clear/direct/honest, but accidentally hit asshole. I suspect this isn't an issue for mouse, but might be for other people.

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Re: Tales from the Office Space: Complain about your coworkers

#938

Post by brkriete » Mon May 23, 2022 7:49 am

5hout wrote: Mon May 23, 2022 7:15 am That's being honest. I wouldn't describe that as being too honest. It's the "too" part that worries me. Ok, actually I'm always slightly concerned if someone says they are "honest", like was the default assumption you were a lying a shitbag? But, when people offer up "too honest" it's usually code for "can't manage interpersonal relationships/am an asshat". "Tell it like it is" is another red alert phrase.

Also, sometimes you have to be "too honest' b/c people are taking advantage of you and you're backed into a corner. Usually you could avoid it by preemptive action, but the occasional elbow lets people know you're not a scrub. Just make sure it is occasional...

I'm trying to find a good way to put this. I think most every situation has a bunch of potential responses. There's a difference between being an actual no-nonsense straight shooter, and being the kind of guy people ironically describe as "he thinks he's as straight shooter". Same as there's a difference with being clear and direct, but appropriate, with someone that's fucked up and being an asshole about it. It's important to make sure that the behaviors you choose don't aim at clear/direct/honest, but accidentally hit asshole. I suspect this isn't an issue for mouse, but might be for other people.
Also - and this is something I figured late in life - whatever people emphasize about themselves is usually aspirational and not accurate.

"I'm super dependable" = I'm probably going to flake out on you all the time. People who are really dependable just show up, they don't think it's something you need to tell people.

"I'm really fun" = I'm a miserable bundle of nerves. People who are actually fun are having it, not explaining how they are, no really.

"I'm too honest" = I am being fake nice most of the time.

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Re: Tales from the Office Space: Complain about your coworkers

#939

Post by Culican » Mon May 23, 2022 8:16 am

5hout wrote: Mon May 23, 2022 5:14 am
Anaphase wrote: Sun May 22, 2022 5:20 pm How do people do the workplace politics thing successfully? I'm not looking to be a social climber or anything, I'm just kinda of tired of being hated by management at like every job I work at lol. It's almost like if you don't participate in people's weird little social games they hate you, and if you do you still wind up being crapped on just because I'm the kind of person who is waaaay too honest/naive to be manipulative or adept at maneuvering those sorts of interactions in any sort of way.

Like part of me thinks I need to work on being more outwardly "fake" to get into people's good graces but that is exhausting. I sometimes think I might be autistic, I'm just not made for that time of thing.
1. I would suggest a few books, some directly related, others helpful but more tangential.
1a. How to Win Friends and Influence People. At least skim it. Evidence suggests that you might benefit from someone breaking down how to fake it for you. I suspect your natural instincts are hella off, so borrow techniques from the best.
Excellent suggestion. I just dug out my old copy to look at again.

Along the same lines I found this book to be very good: How to Have Confidence and Power in Dealing With People by Les Giblin

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Re: Tales from the Office Space: Complain about your coworkers

#940

Post by Renascent » Mon May 23, 2022 9:01 pm

Anaphase wrote: Sun May 22, 2022 5:20 pm How do people do the workplace politics thing successfully? I'm not looking to be a social climber or anything, I'm just kinda of tired of being hated by management at like every job I work at lol. It's almost like if you don't participate in people's weird little social games they hate you, and if you do you still wind up being crapped on just because I'm the kind of person who is waaaay too honest/naive to be manipulative or adept at maneuvering those sorts of interactions in any sort of way.

Like part of me thinks I need to work on being more outwardly "fake" to get into people's good graces but that is exhausting. I sometimes think I might be autistic, I'm just not made for that time of thing.
You're on the west coast, yeah?

Nature's an excellent chemist.

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