Uneven bar rise - deadlift

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Wilhelm
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Uneven bar rise - deadlift

#1

Post by Wilhelm » Thu Apr 26, 2018 12:33 pm

The bar pretty much invariably reaches my left knee first.
Bar stays close in, and ends up level at lockout.
Anybody seen this before?
Anyone have the same thing happen?
Anyone know how to fix this?
Is this at all common?

I have weighed my plates, and balanced them to each other.
Noticed this last week at 380. Not a misload.
I wouldn't expect any discrepancies would be great enough to cause this.

Perhaps it's some kind of hip asymmetry causing me to lean to the right during the lift.
I would expect any strength asymmetry to favor the right side. ???

Edit to add - It's hard to see from this angle, but i was going frame by frame, and i think my left leg is straightening faster than my right.
I guess i'll try and focus on that next week and see if it helps.

Hmmm. I wonder if i have slightly different length legs...


Last edited by Wilhelm on Thu Apr 26, 2018 1:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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mbasic
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Re: Uneven bar rise - deadlift

#2

Post by mbasic » Thu Apr 26, 2018 1:19 pm

that is weird.

my snatches and cleans twist coming up, the same direction every time.
I can seen the asymmetry in the pull.
deadlifts don't seem to do it.

I'm slowly thinking I've got a slight leg length discrepancy.

But nothing like this.

Do you notice anything on squats?

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Wilhelm
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Re: Uneven bar rise - deadlift

#3

Post by Wilhelm » Thu Apr 26, 2018 1:26 pm

mbasic wrote: Thu Apr 26, 2018 1:19 pm that is weird.

my snatches and cleans twist coming up, the same direction every time.
I can seen the asymmetry in the pull.
deadlifts don't seem to do it.

I'm slowly thinking I've got a slight leg length discrepancy.

But nothing like this.

Do you notice anything on squats?
Yeah, i'm wondering about leg length at this point too. I edited in above that it looks like the left leg is straightening faster than the right. I will try and focus on that next DL session and see if there is any change.
Everything appears level at lockout. Maybe i can just get both legs to straighten at the same rate if i focus on it.

My camera angle gets cramped filming squats from the back, but i think i can get enough in frame to check things there.
I do notice i can get some twisting on squats, again, on my right side, and not always. So even though squat bar path is good, the right side (facing camera in my side on shots) will move slightly forward and then come back in line before the top.

I have been able to basically eliminate that though, as far as i can tell anyway.

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Re: Uneven bar rise - deadlift

#4

Post by thejosef » Thu Apr 26, 2018 1:34 pm

Interesting. Is your floor/lifting platform level?

But yeah, the leg length thing has me curious.. that's a possibility..

Does this happen on light loads as well or just your heaviest sets?

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Wilhelm
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Re: Uneven bar rise - deadlift

#5

Post by Wilhelm » Thu Apr 26, 2018 1:46 pm

thejosef wrote: Thu Apr 26, 2018 1:34 pm Interesting. Is your floor/lifting platform level?

But yeah, the leg length thing has me curious.. that's a possibility..

Does this happen on light loads as well or just your heaviest sets?
Thanks for taking a look, @mbasic and @thejosef
Platform is level. Just checked it again. The outboard blocks are made the same as each other.
Whatever less than exact leveling is so minor as not to warrant consideration.
I don't have any lighter lifts saved, but i'll check my warmups next week.

My right hammy has been a little sore since i started doing good mornings, but nothing major. Maybe i am favoring it though.
For now, I'm going to go with focusing more on my right leg straightening as i lift.
It's almost certainly lagging behind.

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Re: Uneven bar rise - deadlift

#6

Post by mgil » Thu Apr 26, 2018 2:39 pm

@Wilhelm I think it’s your left erector being stronger and pulling better. Your left shoulder is coming up faster and your hand is just along for the ride.

ETA: If your right hammy is acting up, it could certainly be that.

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Re: Uneven bar rise - deadlift

#7

Post by Wilhelm » Thu Apr 26, 2018 2:49 pm

mgil wrote: Thu Apr 26, 2018 2:39 pm @Wilhelm I think it’s your left erector being stronger and pulling better. Your left shoulder is coming up faster and your hand is just along for the ride.

ETA: If your right hammy is acting up, it could certainly be that.
This is actually really interesting.
I have been noticing an apparent difference in my 50lb one arm KB rows, where my left arm feels stronger.
I perceive it as my right side being more tired doing the same reps.
I have been trying to get the exact same placement of my feet, hand on chair etc... to see if the difference is there.

It's hard to believe my right arm and shoulder are weaker than my left though.
I'm still thinking the row thing has to do with varying geometries left to right, and how i end up setting up, even though i'm trying to do the same side to side. Like i may actually have different ROM or angles+ROM left to right.

Mysteries abound.

But for the DL, my right leg is my leading suspect at this time.
But focusing extra on the whole right side as i lift could help.

I really don't want to have an ugly deadlift. :lol:
My DL face is bad enough as it is.

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Re: Uneven bar rise - deadlift

#8

Post by mbasic » Thu Apr 26, 2018 2:59 pm

have you recently switched from mixed grip to hook ?

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Re: Uneven bar rise - deadlift

#9

Post by Wilhelm » Thu Apr 26, 2018 3:02 pm

mbasic wrote: Thu Apr 26, 2018 2:59 pm have you recently switched from mixed grip to hook ?
Nope. I've never mix gripped.

I'm looking at my 408 from my Feb. 24th meet, and it appears the same thing is happening.
That kind of makes the hamstring excuse not as plausible.

The angle from the meet vid is not optimal, but it is clearly hapening there too. :/
**Almost all my IG DLs are side on, but now i know what i'm looking for, it's clear that this has been happening all along.


OK, so left side erectors being stronger from a lifetime of counterbalancing the work of the stronger right arm/shoulder?
That kind of makes sense.
But it doesn't happen to everyone. blergh

The bar doesn't get in front of me on either side, so i guess i'll just try and correct it with right side focus.

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Re: Uneven bar rise - deadlift

#10

Post by Shane » Thu Apr 26, 2018 5:53 pm

We're only vaguely symmetrical. I sometimes wonder whether it'd be worth taking the time to sort out my helicopter squat. Then I realize I don't how I'd do that, would rather spend the money it'd take me to figure out on other things, and it only bothers me on video. Check out the esteemed Mr Klokov and his asymmetrical foot placement. Not saying you can't do anything about this.

.

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Re: Uneven bar rise - deadlift

#11

Post by Wilhelm » Thu Apr 26, 2018 8:30 pm

Shane wrote: Thu Apr 26, 2018 5:53 pm We're only vaguely symmetrical. I sometimes wonder whether it'd be worth taking the time to sort out my helicopter squat. Then I realize I don't how I'd do that, would rather spend the money it'd take me to figure out on other things, and it only bothers me on video. Check out the esteemed Mr Klokov and his asymmetrical foot placement. Not saying you can't do anything about this.

.
Can't (of course) stagger my stance on DL, but i could try pointing one foot forward instead of out.

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Re: Uneven bar rise - deadlift

#12

Post by Shane » Thu Apr 26, 2018 8:40 pm

Wilhelm wrote: Thu Apr 26, 2018 8:30 pm Can't (of course) stagger my stance on DL, but i could try pointing one foot forward instead of out.
Sure! Not quite what I was getting at though.

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Re: Uneven bar rise - deadlift

#13

Post by Wilhelm » Thu Apr 26, 2018 9:09 pm

Shane wrote: Thu Apr 26, 2018 8:40 pm
Wilhelm wrote: Thu Apr 26, 2018 8:30 pm Can't (of course) stagger my stance on DL, but i could try pointing one foot forward instead of out.
Sure! Not quite what I was getting at though.
You helped me think of something to try anyway. : )
And if this is just how i lift, i may have to accept it.
I think the hammy might be making it more prounounced though. So maybe i can normalize it a little in the end.

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Re: Uneven bar rise - deadlift

#14

Post by thejosef » Thu Apr 26, 2018 9:37 pm

Maybe start putting a little more weight on the left side of the bar...


:)


So I guess the next question is, do you have any pain deadlifting? If not, does the shifting matter (beside not looking too great)? I'm curious about the lighter loads though. Seems like if it's happening on lighter loads also, it could be a leg length thing, whereas if it's not happening on light lifts, it would lead me to believe it's more muscular in nature. (Though I'm really just guessing here. :D ).

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Re: Uneven bar rise - deadlift

#15

Post by Wilhelm » Thu Apr 26, 2018 9:40 pm

No pain.
I am concerned it affects performance though.

I'll report back next Thursday and record my warm ups too.

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Re: Uneven bar rise - deadlift

#16

Post by ChrisMcCarthy1979 » Fri Apr 27, 2018 1:12 am

It looks pretty minor...I'd just shuffle one hand out slightly and see if it helps.

Do you have a bang on front view?

Plenty of lifters lift asymmetrically, even at the highest level...so, yeah, I'd only really change if it was causing massive issues - it's a tough one.

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Re: Uneven bar rise - deadlift

#17

Post by chromoly » Sun Apr 29, 2018 8:35 am

I have an uneven bar rise also when I deadlift heavy. It doesn't show at lighter percentages, but anything over 80%, if I'm tired, the uneven bar rise will show.

I've partly attributed mine to differences in grip strength and hand size. The bar rises more slowly on my left side than my right side. It sounds weird but... My left thumb is noticeably smaller than my right thumb, so it's always had grip problems in comparison. Then I made the issue even worse by breaking a finger in my left hand. The uneven bar rise got much worse. Upon doing direct grip work for my left hand, it's started to mitigate the bar rise issue. I don't doubt that there's also some asymmetry in my posterior chain and leg strength, but grip has definitely been a factor I could work on that has helped.

@Wilhelm I know you don't mixed grip, but do you get any windmilling issues also? A tendency to lose the bar forward on one side or the other? I have this issue despite hook gripping.

But as @ChrisMcCarthy1979 says, plenty of lifters have asymmetry lifts even at the highest levels. A small issue doesn't necessarily need to be changed, but if it's causing larger issues....

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Re: Uneven bar rise - deadlift

#18

Post by Wilhelm » Sun Apr 29, 2018 9:32 am

chromoly wrote: Sun Apr 29, 2018 8:35 am I have an uneven bar rise also when I deadlift heavy. It doesn't show at lighter percentages, but anything over 80%, if I'm tired, the uneven bar rise will show.

I've partly attributed mine to differences in grip strength and hand size. The bar rises more slowly on my left side than my right side. It sounds weird but... My left thumb is noticeably smaller than my right thumb, so it's always had grip problems in comparison. Then I made the issue even worse by breaking a finger in my left hand. The uneven bar rise got much worse. Upon doing direct grip work for my left hand, it's started to mitigate the bar rise issue. I don't doubt that there's also some asymmetry in my posterior chain and leg strength, but grip has definitely been a factor I could work on that has helped.

@Wilhelm I know you don't mixed grip, but do you get any windmilling issues also? A tendency to lose the bar forward on one side or the other? I have this issue despite hook gripping.

But as @ChrisMcCarthy1979 says, plenty of lifters have asymmetry lifts even at the highest levels. A small issue doesn't necessarily need to be changed, but if it's causing larger issues....
Thanks for the reply, Nanette.
The bar stays tight to me. It's also odd that this happens on what i would assume is my strong side.
I had always recorded side on, and prided myself on my bar path and flat back.
This is part of why this bothers me so much. :D

But i pretty much agree, if i can't fix it, it isn't stopping me progressing. At least not yet.

I'm going to try pointing my right foot forward instead of out, and see if that makes any difference.
Then also just focusing on my right side when i lift. Seeing if thinking about it helps balance things.

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Re: Uneven bar rise - deadlift

#19

Post by Wilhelm » Thu May 03, 2018 11:53 am

Well, pointing my feet differently sounds cool to say, but it's a ridiculous thing to actually do.

Looking at today's lifts, i am more and more convinced my left leg straightens faster than my right with heavy loads.
@TimK, how did you discover the your leg length difference?
Did it manifest at all with this bar rise pattern?

On of my singles from today -

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Re: Uneven bar rise - deadlift

#20

Post by TimK » Thu May 03, 2018 12:02 pm

Wilhelm wrote: Thu May 03, 2018 11:53 am @TimK, how did you discover the your leg length difference?
Did it manifest at all with this bar rise pattern?
I noticed when I was a teenager when my pants would always be longer on the right leg. This is still an annoyance when buying clothes.

From what I recall, the first time I got into semi-serious strength training I did it for a while without making any adjustments but it started to feel uncomfortable doing squats and deadlifts once the weight got a little heavy. I cut a chunk of 3/4" MDF to stand on with my right foot and never looked back. That was over 10 years ago before we all had video cameras in our pockets 24/7 so I never filmed any sets and never deadlifted in front of a mirror, so I can't really say if that happened or not.

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