Landing the Whale: Beer thread

[bugbomb]

Finally recently got a bottle of Pliny the Elder, that was fun! I really enjoyed it.

I had that one 5-6 years ago. I enjoyed it, but thought it was overrated. I actually had it back to back with St. Arnold's (OG Houston brewery) "Elissa" IPA, and I can buy that in a six-pack at any local grocery store when it's in season. The local IPA compared pretty favorably.

My beer tastes are pretty seasonal, and very rarely will I have a beer more than once. This time of year I try and build at least a 6 pack of different Oktoberfests- Ayinger is my current favorite after a blind taste test. I hope to do another blind test in the next week or two.

Yes. Me and a few buddies do an Oktoberfest shindig every year. This year it'll be on 10/21 and we make sure to have 12-15 different Oktoberfests available. Ayinger is probably my favorite too, although I'm a real sucker for anything Weihenstephaner puts out. The mandatory Germans are:
- Ayinger
- Hacker-Pschorr
- Weihenstephaner
- Spaten
- NOT WARSTEINER

And then just a grab bag of American takes. We're lucky down here in that there's a strong German influence, so the Texas breweries in my area do a really good job with Oktoberfest/Marzen styles.

I have two cases of wild/sour beers in my basement from my favorite local place, Brewery Vivant. If you see their beers around, I think they are worth a shot- they distribute mostly just in the Midwest so far, with Farmhand and Big Red Coq being their two flagships.

I'm a super recent convert to sours. I had some 5-6 years ago that just weren't right. I'd had the classics and thought they were good, but the American ones kind of - pun intended - soured me on the style. Tried a few more recently and brewers seem to have figured out how to make them good now. I'm really liking some of the dark sours I've had from Blue Owl (Austin) and I have a Lagunitas Aunt Sally that I might crack tonight.

I've been digging the Brother Theloneous from North Coast Brewing

That's a goodie. My local Costco always has those in 750ml for dirt cheap. If you like stouts, North Coast's Old Rasputin is a handful.

Other stuff that's made me click my heels with glee:
- Anything by Prairie. The BOMB! lineup is pretty amazing, although I don't think most of the fancy versions are better than the standard one.
- Real Ale Sisyphus - barleywine. I have 5-6 different years stored up in my "cellar" (cabinet under the bar) and I'll be cracking a few of them open once the weather cools down.
- I also have a couple of Sierra Nevada Barrel Aged Bigfoot barleywines from 2015. I figure one of them might be opened this year, the other one in another year or two.
- Tallgrass is another brewery that I've enjoyed lately. Really cool can art. IIRC their saison was REALLY impressive, their porter not so much (despite having an awesome zombie gorilla on the can).

[Allentown]

I agree Pliny seems "overrated," another reason I don't actually like rating beers. It was an early "West Coast" IPA, so, influential. And very well made, and really tasty. This year some "Homebrewing" magazine actually picked Bells' Two Hearted as the best beer in the world for the first year, after having Pliny for the past 10 years or something. It was still cool to actually get it, being a big, influential beer.

I really like doing blind testing of beers in a style- it helps remove the partiality when it comes to breweries. For example, I did a blind comparison of Founders' Doom (BBAIIPA) with Brewery Vivant's Devastation (BBAIIPA). Vivant is my favorite brewery, but Founders is one of the top breweries in the world (and both happen to be within 2 miles of eachother, and Vivant is about 2 miles from my house). So I was interested to see if one of my top 5 favorite beers (Devastation) was actually better than the same type of beer made by a "better" brewery. It wasn't. 5 people all picked the Vivant over the Founders.

Just had Prairie Prison Rodeo, and it was probably the best coffee beer I've ever had.

I actually have 3 or 4 barleywines in my fridge, haven't gotten into that style much at all yet, and I'm just waiting for someone else who wants to split them before I open them. Not sure I want to go after a whole bomber or pint myself.

[Manveer]

I agree Pliny seems "overrated," another reason I don't actually like rating beers. It was an early "West Coast" IPA, so, influential. And very well made, and really tasty. This year some "Homebrewing" magazine actually picked Bells' Two Hearted as the best beer in the world for the first year, after having Pliny for the past 10 years or something. It was still cool to actually get it, being a big, influential beer.

I only care if I like something or not. How much I like it relative to how it's rated is irrelevant. Two Hearted is great. Easy to find.

Beers made down in SW Ohio mostly suck.

[Allentown]

I only care if I like something or not. How much I like it relative to how it's rated is irrelevant.

100% agree. It annoys me when I go to a beer release and hear people talking about how they don't even like the beer from the brewery, they are just buying a case because it's BBA or something and will be hard to find. Yes, we get it, you drink Heady Topper once a week.

[TwoFoursStrohm]

Lke I said before those highly rated west coast style IPAs (pliny, heady, focal banger, sip of sunshine) have been surpassed IMO by the juice bombs. Although Im sure my pallette will change in a few years and something else will jump out in from of the trilliums and tree houses of the world.

Line life culture at some of these special releases and the hording of beers for resale is really a pain.

Lizard of Koz wasnt THAT bad.

The Bomb! series is awesome, although some of the varients are only good for MAYBE 3 oz worth and then they get old fast. Just had the xmas one at a bar that did a christmas in july tap list and it was soooooo good until about half way through when the cinnimon started overwhelming me.

[Shane]

Good to see stout mentioned a couple of times! Dunno if you can source it outside Oz, but "Coopers Best Extra Stout" is my favourite drop for Friday night games or movies. Also makes an exciting spider with some vanilla ice cream. It's conditioned in the bottle, like almost all the Coopers range. One of few mobs that still bottles in a tallie (750ml) as well as a stubbie (375ml). None of that 330ml rip-off shit. Only problem is I'm finding my Friday tastes are extending out to other days of the week. At 6.3% ABV it gets savage if overdone.

I have a mate who's gone crazy for the growler lifestyle. Several micro-breweries have popped up near his joint and they produce some good stuff. It's ~ $20 for a fill, which is just south of a six pack in volume. As I buy by the carton, and that's already a significant budgetary expense, I'm not sure I could actually afford to drink in the style to which I am accustomed if I went that way, so I likely won't. Or I could be my own micro and start brewing again. But I'm sure I'm disqualified on the grounds that I usually only last for a year and then brewmeister morphs into caretaker of a massive collection of empty dusty tallies.

[Allentown]

I don't like Citra hops. I've enjoyed some of the big, juicy NE style IPAs, but I'd 100% rather have a glass full of liquid weed and pine than a glass full of tropical fruit.

$20 for a growler fill isn't terrible, actually, especially in upside-down dollars!

[bugbomb]

I agree Pliny seems "overrated," another reason I don't actually like rating beers. It was an early "West Coast" IPA, so, influential. And very well made, and really tasty. This year some "Homebrewing" magazine actually picked Bells' Two Hearted as the best beer in the world for the first year, after having Pliny for the past 10 years or something. It was still cool to actually get it, being a big, influential beer.

Yep, I agree - I was really excited to finally get my hands on a Pliney, and it was just a bit of a letdown. But I'm glad I've tried it. Just like my experience with sours, there's always a process by which EVERYONE catches up and starts doing a style right. That sure happened quickly with the DIPA/IIPA world.

I really like doing blind testing of beers in a style- it helps remove the partiality when it comes to breweries. For example, I did a blind comparison of Founders' Doom (BBAIIPA) with Brewery Vivant's Devastation (BBAIIPA). Vivant is my favorite brewery, but Founders is one of the top breweries in the world (and both happen to be within 2 miles of eachother, and Vivant is about 2 miles from my house). So I was interested to see if one of my top 5 favorite beers (Devastation) was actually better than the same type of beer made by a "better" brewery. It wasn't. 5 people all picked the Vivant over the Founders.

Wait, it sounds like it Vivant WAS better than the "better" brewery?

Just had Prairie Prison Rodeo, and it was probably the best coffee beer I've ever had.

Next up for me is their Pe-Kan, and other than pecan flavor I don't have a clue what to expect. I kind of like it that way. TBH I don't like "flavored" beers that much. Even with the BOMB!, what made the original one so special was that they melded all those flavors (chili, vanilla, chocolate, espresso) so perfectly. Getting a big whop of cinnamon or cake or rum kind of messes up the balance.

I actually have 3 or 4 barleywines in my fridge, haven't gotten into that style much at all yet, and I'm just waiting for someone else who wants to split them before I open them. Not sure I want to go after a whole bomber or pint myself.

Yeah, those tend to be pretty overwhelming. Definitely for sharing, or for spreading out over a LONG time. I have some buddies and we'll occasionally do a style shootout - everyone brings one or two of their favorites from a specific style. Fun way to taste a bunch of really good beers in a short time, and get or develop a really good point of reference for the style.

[Allentown]

Yeah, we all liked the Vivant better than the Founders. TBF it was my wife's family and I, and neither her, her sister, brother in law, or dad are what I would call "beer snobs-" they all go to breweries regularly and such, but they don't go to beer releases, consult lists when building a 6er, etc.

[TwoFoursStrohm]

@allentown - what characteristics are there for a sour that would age well? Is it just the fact that its in a bottle?

[cgeorg]

@allentown - what characteristics are there for a sour that would age well? Is it just the fact that its in a bottle?

That's going to depend on a lot of things. Oxidation is a killer, so the more you can do to keep it out, the better. This is usually the issue when you end up with a vinegary sour. Different cultures will age different, but sours that are bottle conditioned with a Brettanomyces strain will tend to hold up well and change pleasantly as time goes on. Ditto for pediococcus, though you'll want a mixed culture there as the pedio ends up creating very long chain carbohydrates that the brett then converts into Flavors and such. Higher alcohol will also lead to better aging, especially since sour beers tend to lack the preservative quality of hops (some are used so that it is legally defined as beer, but they tend to be a token addition that does not affect the outcome of the batch).

All of this to say, something like a berlinerweiss (Lactobacillus, often soured before boiling so no bacteria survive to packaging) should be consumed fresh and quick, something like a Lambic or Gueuze (mixed culture, and gueuze is actually a blend of lambics) should hold up longer and change pleasantly over time. Also note that Gueuze is not Gose, which is more like a berlinerweiss with salt and coriander.

[Allentown]

@allentown - what characteristics are there for a sour that would age well? Is it just the fact that its in a bottle?

Like, what styles of sour beer age well? Or what about a beer makes one say "Hmm, I want to let this sit and try it in a few years?" Really, it's something like 85% speculation, and I'm only into the second year of my experience with aging beers.

Bottles work better for aging because they handle pressure better, so that's a start. There might still be fermentables, the yeast might mutate and adapt to different fermentables, etc, so the pressure in the bottle might go above where a can would blow?

The yeast will continue interacting with the beer. Hop acids will degrade, that's why the particularly big IPAs all recommend drinking as fresh as possible, but a beer like a red-wine barrel aged bretta will change over time. It might get better, it might get worse, too- it's why I kind of like the idea of aging a beer that will be released again and comparing the flavors.

[TwoFoursStrohm]

@allentown - what characteristics are there for a sour that would age well? Is it just the fact that its in a bottle?

That's going to depend on a lot of things. Oxidation is a killer, so the more you can do to keep it out, the better. This is usually the issue when you end up with a vinegary sour. Different cultures will age different, but sours that are bottle conditioned with a Brettanomyces strain will tend to hold up well and change pleasantly as time goes on. Ditto for pediococcus, though you'll want a mixed culture there as the pedio ends up creating very long chain carbohydrates that the brett then converts into Flavors and such. Higher alcohol will also lead to better aging, especially since sour beers tend to lack the preservative quality of hops (some are used so that it is legally defined as beer, but they tend to be a token addition that does not affect the outcome of the batch).

All of this to say, something like a berlinerweiss (Lactobacillus, often soured before boiling so no bacteria survive to packaging) should be consumed fresh and quick, something like a Lambic or Gueuze (mixed culture, and gueuze is actually a blend of lambics) should hold up longer and change pleasantly over time. Also note that Gueuze is not Gose, which is more like a berlinerweiss with salt and coriander.

awesome, thanks for the rundown ! so basically if its bottle conditioned I can age it and if not then aging might not work.

[TwoFoursStrohm]

@allentown - what characteristics are there for a sour that would age well? Is it just the fact that its in a bottle?

Like, what styles of sour beer age well? Or what about a beer makes one say "Hmm, I want to let this sit and try it in a few years?" Really, it's something like 85% speculation, and I'm only into the second year of my experience with aging beers.

Bottles work better for aging because they handle pressure better, so that's a start. There might still be fermentables, the yeast might mutate and adapt to different fermentables, etc, so the pressure in the bottle might go above where a can would blow?

The yeast will continue interacting with the beer. Hop acids will degrade, that's why the particularly big IPAs all recommend drinking as fresh as possible, but a beer like a red-wine barrel aged bretta will change over time. It might get better, it might get worse, too- it's why I kind of like the idea of aging a beer that will be released again and comparing the flavors.

good stuff here too. I have never aged anything but put some Firestone Walker Parabola, and 2 sours from Equilibrium in my wine fridge a few months ago. Will see what happens.

[simonrest]

I don't like Citra hops. I've enjoyed some of the big, juicy NE style IPAs, but I'd 100% rather have a glass full of liquid weed and pine than a glass full of tropical fruit.

$20 for a growler fill isn't terrible, actually, especially in upside-down dollars!

I didn't know there was a term for it, but citra hops is basically what all local Australian craft Brewers are using. I can drink one on a hot, humid afternoon but that's it.

I've basically given up on craft beers. The scene is full of wankers, it's expensive and I frankly don't enjoy it enough to bother getting into it. There's enough decent, cheap, accessible beer to not bother.

I'm currently drinking Asian lagers as we come into summer.

[Allentown]

wine fridge a few months ago.

What temp is the wine fridge?

[TwoFoursStrohm]

wine fridge a few months ago.

What temp is the wine fridge?

Its a cheap little one from wine enthusiast that my aunt gave me, in the summer it was almost always in the low 60's on the lowest setting possible which is 52. Now thats itsa cooler out, its been mid 50's on the lowest setting.

[Hamburgerfan]

I love anchor steam beer, but I find that it sometimes gives me a minor headache when I drink it. Anyone have a clue why that might be?

[DirtyRed]

IPAs are generally shit and taste like someone fermented grass clippings in their own urine. Really, if it isn't a lager it's probably an insult to beer.

Discuss.

[Manveer]

IPAs are generally shit and taste like someone fermented grass clippings in their own urine. Really, if it isn't a lager it's probably an insult to beer.

Discuss.

DR lives in Kentucky and thinks Coors Light is beer rather than lightly flavored piss. How much more discussion is required?