Who is on a cut?

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EggMcMuffin
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Re: Who is on a cut?

#1481

Post by EggMcMuffin » Fri Oct 14, 2022 1:58 am

I sometimes wonder to what degree I may still have body dysmorphia. I was a very, VERY skinny, weak kid growing up and it made me quite insecure. Of course I went from being like 145lbs at 5'9 to 220lbs with a nearly 400lb squat (355 is close enough :mrgreen: ) after SS but I was fat as hell. It's taken me three years to get my weight back to "not fat" but I still feel fat all the time. Of course most Americans are really fat and disgusting (honestly not really their fault a lot of the time) so even with a little extra pudge I probably look better than 99% of people. I am 170 now and really miss those days when I had a 30" waist but I also could barely bench 135 at that point, but I seem to realize on an intellectual level getting back to that would require me basically going back on a PoW canp diet.

I guess you don't appreciate things you have until they are gone. Cutting is hard.

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Re: Who is on a cut?

#1482

Post by dw » Fri Oct 14, 2022 3:54 am

JohnHelton wrote: Tue Oct 11, 2022 7:45 am
dw wrote: Tue Oct 11, 2022 6:31 am What do you guys think of the accuracy of this calculator?

https://dqydj.com/body-fat-estimate-calculator/

I'm moving toward using my waist size rather than bodyweight to judge bf%, both because I often don't have access to a scale and because my body weight seems to fluctuate a lot.

Not sure about this particular calculator though, usually the "DEXA" estimate seems a bit high and the "caliper" estimate seems quite a bit too low.
Pretty terrible. Not nearly enough inputs. It is way off of my DEXA and caliper measurements. It at least needs to include body weight as well. If someone was 6'0" and 275 lbs with a 34" waist, it would give the same results as someone that is 6'0" and 165 lbs with a 34" waist.

This works better.
https://www.bizcalcs.com/body-fat-ymca/

You can smooth your weight fluctuations with TrendWeight.com

This one's giving me 5% bf. I guess it's possible I measure my waist incorrectly? I do a long slow but complete exhale before measuring which seems to tighten me up quite a bit.

But still does 29.5" at 165# really seem that crazy? (Bodyweight might be a bit high too, I don't have access to a scale at the moment.)

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Re: Who is on a cut?

#1483

Post by JohnHelton » Fri Oct 14, 2022 4:19 am

dw wrote: Fri Oct 14, 2022 3:54 am
JohnHelton wrote: Tue Oct 11, 2022 7:45 am
dw wrote: Tue Oct 11, 2022 6:31 am What do you guys think of the accuracy of this calculator?

https://dqydj.com/body-fat-estimate-calculator/

I'm moving toward using my waist size rather than bodyweight to judge bf%, both because I often don't have access to a scale and because my body weight seems to fluctuate a lot.

Not sure about this particular calculator though, usually the "DEXA" estimate seems a bit high and the "caliper" estimate seems quite a bit too low.
Pretty terrible. Not nearly enough inputs. It is way off of my DEXA and caliper measurements. It at least needs to include body weight as well. If someone was 6'0" and 275 lbs with a 34" waist, it would give the same results as someone that is 6'0" and 165 lbs with a 34" waist.

This works better.
https://www.bizcalcs.com/body-fat-ymca/

You can smooth your weight fluctuations with TrendWeight.com

This one's giving me 5% bf. I guess it's possible I measure my waist incorrectly? I do a long slow but complete exhale before measuring which seems to tighten me up quite a bit.

But still does 29.5" at 165# really seem that crazy? (Bodyweight might be a bit high too, I don't have access to a scale at the moment.)
Generally, they are all pretty flawed. You should think about the number they spit out as an index versus an actual BF percent. I like to track my results from the YMCA test anyway. If my waist is bigger or small at the same weight, that is telling.

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Re: Who is on a cut?

#1484

Post by dw » Fri Oct 14, 2022 4:55 am

JohnHelton wrote: Fri Oct 14, 2022 4:19 am
dw wrote: Fri Oct 14, 2022 3:54 am
JohnHelton wrote: Tue Oct 11, 2022 7:45 am
dw wrote: Tue Oct 11, 2022 6:31 am What do you guys think of the accuracy of this calculator?

https://dqydj.com/body-fat-estimate-calculator/

I'm moving toward using my waist size rather than bodyweight to judge bf%, both because I often don't have access to a scale and because my body weight seems to fluctuate a lot.

Not sure about this particular calculator though, usually the "DEXA" estimate seems a bit high and the "caliper" estimate seems quite a bit too low.
Pretty terrible. Not nearly enough inputs. It is way off of my DEXA and caliper measurements. It at least needs to include body weight as well. If someone was 6'0" and 275 lbs with a 34" waist, it would give the same results as someone that is 6'0" and 165 lbs with a 34" waist.

This works better.
https://www.bizcalcs.com/body-fat-ymca/

You can smooth your weight fluctuations with TrendWeight.com

This one's giving me 5% bf. I guess it's possible I measure my waist incorrectly? I do a long slow but complete exhale before measuring which seems to tighten me up quite a bit.

But still does 29.5" at 165# really seem that crazy? (Bodyweight might be a bit high too, I don't have access to a scale at the moment.)
Generally, they are all pretty flawed. You should think about the number they spit out as an index versus an actual BF percent. I like to track my results from the YMCA test anyway. If my waist is bigger or small at the same weight, that is telling.

Yeah I have settled on waist circumference as the most stable measure of progress, would just be nice to have a good estimate of bf% as well.

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Re: Who is on a cut?

#1485

Post by broseph » Fri Oct 14, 2022 6:55 am

dw wrote: Fri Oct 14, 2022 4:55 am Yeah I have settled on waist circumference as the most stable measure of progress, would just be nice to have a good estimate of bf% as well.
Same. I use waist circumference to determine my bulking ceiling, but I use bodyweight and gym performance to determine when to stop cutting.

I'm back on the cut wagon now; planning to run 4 weeks before reevaluating. Ever since getting down to a reasonable (for me) leanness, I have to use the mantra "no wasted days" for my cuts. 1 day of not paying attention seems to ruin a whole week when the margins start getting thin.

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Re: Who is on a cut?

#1486

Post by JohnHelton » Fri Oct 14, 2022 7:42 am

Another metric that is useful is using the calipers to pinch belly fat. Forget doing the 3 or 7 measurements and just measure your belly fat thickness. I find it actually easier than measuring my waist, and I know that if the measurement gets really small, then I am lean. Last cut I got down to 9 mm. That felt good. I would like to get back there again.

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Re: Who is on a cut?

#1487

Post by broseph » Fri Oct 14, 2022 7:49 am

JohnHelton wrote: Fri Oct 14, 2022 7:42 am Another metric that is useful is using the calipers to pinch belly fat. Forget doing the 3 or 7 measurements and just measure your belly fat thickness. I find it actually easier than measuring my waist, and I know that if the measurement gets really small, then I am lean. Last cut I got down to 9 mm. That felt good. I would like to get back there again.
This seems like a really good idea. The problem with waist circumference is the sensitivity to gut contents, time of day, and how you're posturing your abdomen.

Seems like the pinch would be more consistent (and maybe easier to track small amounts of progress?) Have you found a consistent ratio of lbs per pinch mm when cutting?

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Re: Who is on a cut?

#1488

Post by JohnHelton » Fri Oct 14, 2022 8:19 am

broseph wrote: Fri Oct 14, 2022 7:49 am
JohnHelton wrote: Fri Oct 14, 2022 7:42 am Another metric that is useful is using the calipers to pinch belly fat. Forget doing the 3 or 7 measurements and just measure your belly fat thickness. I find it actually easier than measuring my waist, and I know that if the measurement gets really small, then I am lean. Last cut I got down to 9 mm. That felt good. I would like to get back there again.
This seems like a really good idea. The problem with waist circumference is the sensitivity to gut contents, time of day, and how you're posturing your abdomen.

Seems like the pinch would be more consistent (and maybe easier to track small amounts of progress?) Have you found a consistent ratio of lbs per pinch mm when cutting?
I haven't really done that math. My gut always loses the fat last too. You do need to measure in the morning, because I have found a pretty significant difference between a morning and an evening measurement. Also, the videos all say to take a vertical pinch of fat. However, I take a horizontal pinch because it is easier to do. Again, I'm just looking for relative change and measuring in a more consistent way is more important.

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Re: Who is on a cut?

#1489

Post by broseph » Fri Oct 14, 2022 1:22 pm

JohnHelton wrote: Fri Oct 14, 2022 8:19 am You do need to measure in the morning, because I have found a pretty significant difference between a morning and an evening measurement.
Very interesting. I would not have anticipated that.

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Re: Who is on a cut?

#1490

Post by CaptainAwesome » Wed Oct 19, 2022 4:14 am

Sort of cutting now. I'm trying to keep it to only a pound a week, though. Rule of thumb is gonna be when I lose more than a pound in a week, I do some refeeding. My belt is already down one hole in tightness after 3 weeks. Can't really evaluate my strength level too well, since I hurt my back recently and it's fucked up a lot of my lifting.

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Re: Who is on a cut?

#1491

Post by JohnHelton » Wed Oct 19, 2022 4:25 am

CaptainAwesome wrote: Wed Oct 19, 2022 4:14 am Sort of cutting now. I'm trying to keep it to only a pound a week, though. Rule of thumb is gonna be when I lose more than a pound in a week, I do some refeeding. My belt is already down one hole in tightness after 3 weeks. Can't really evaluate my strength level too well, since I hurt my back recently and it's fucked up a lot of my lifting.
It is probably best not to evaluate your strength while cutting. Doing so isn't good for motivation.

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Re: Who is on a cut?

#1492

Post by augeleven » Wed Oct 19, 2022 6:08 am

JohnHelton wrote: Wed Oct 19, 2022 4:25 am
CaptainAwesome wrote: Wed Oct 19, 2022 4:14 am Sort of cutting now. I'm trying to keep it to only a pound a week, though. Rule of thumb is gonna be when I lose more than a pound in a week, I do some refeeding. My belt is already down one hole in tightness after 3 weeks. Can't really evaluate my strength level too well, since I hurt my back recently and it's fucked up a lot of my lifting.
It is probably best not to evaluate your strength while cutting. Doing so isn't good for motivation.
QFT
also a cut is a great time to take a supplemental exercise you haven’t really trained (sumo, close grip, front squat BTN press etc) and run them through linearly. This way you still see numbers going up while on a cut.
This is how Greyskull morphs the (much maligned here) SSLP into a more viable post-intermediate training paradigm. I know you dig that style of training, so maybe investigate that.
Example: 3 sets with a final AMRAP on Front Squat, when that starts to stall, switch to paused beltless high bar, then belt high bar, then low bar. EZPZ

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Re: Who is on a cut?

#1493

Post by dw » Wed Oct 19, 2022 6:31 am

CaptainAwesome wrote: Wed Oct 19, 2022 4:14 am Sort of cutting now. I'm trying to keep it to only a pound a week, though. Rule of thumb is gonna be when I lose more than a pound in a week, I do some refeeding. My belt is already down one hole in tightness after 3 weeks. Can't really evaluate my strength level too well, since I hurt my back recently and it's fucked up a lot of my lifting.
If your concern is strength and LBM preservation I think you can go harder than that if you keep up your lifting volume.

My experience is that you take the same hit within the first week due to glycogen depletion regardless of how big your deficit is. From that point you lose strength seemingly in a fixed relation to bodyweight without the time scale making much of a difference (in other words you lose the same strength over your first 10 pounds lost whether you lose 1.5 pounds per week or .5 pounds per week).

This is assuming deficit is within reasonable levels and not something like a PSMF.

But I guess compliance is the most important thing.

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Re: Who is on a cut?

#1494

Post by CaptainAwesome » Wed Oct 19, 2022 12:43 pm

JohnHelton wrote: Wed Oct 19, 2022 4:25 am
CaptainAwesome wrote: Wed Oct 19, 2022 4:14 am Sort of cutting now. I'm trying to keep it to only a pound a week, though. Rule of thumb is gonna be when I lose more than a pound in a week, I do some refeeding. My belt is already down one hole in tightness after 3 weeks. Can't really evaluate my strength level too well, since I hurt my back recently and it's fucked up a lot of my lifting.
It is probably best not to evaluate your strength while cutting. Doing so isn't good for motivation.
I like to have some idea where I'm at. Anyway, it's more of a mini-cut. I just didn't like creeping past 300 pounds. I might knock it off as soon as hitting 290. People seem to think you can gain while losing weight if you're past 20% bodyfat anyway.

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Re: Who is on a cut?

#1495

Post by dw » Wed Oct 19, 2022 1:50 pm

CaptainAwesome wrote: Wed Oct 19, 2022 12:43 pm
JohnHelton wrote: Wed Oct 19, 2022 4:25 am
CaptainAwesome wrote: Wed Oct 19, 2022 4:14 am Sort of cutting now. I'm trying to keep it to only a pound a week, though. Rule of thumb is gonna be when I lose more than a pound in a week, I do some refeeding. My belt is already down one hole in tightness after 3 weeks. Can't really evaluate my strength level too well, since I hurt my back recently and it's fucked up a lot of my lifting.
It is probably best not to evaluate your strength while cutting. Doing so isn't good for motivation.
I like to have some idea where I'm at. Anyway, it's more of a mini-cut. I just didn't like creeping past 300 pounds. I might knock it off as soon as hitting 290. People seem to think you can gain while losing weight if you're past 20% bodyfat anyway.
Really depends on how much of your potential strength you have realized at your current amount of LBM. If you've been doing a lot of heavy SBD on your bulk then I would expect to lose strength on a cut. If you've been doing all isolation work or high rep SBD work then I would expect the opposite if you switch over to high intensity work on a cut.

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Re: Who is on a cut?

#1496

Post by CaptainAwesome » Wed Oct 19, 2022 4:17 pm

dw wrote: Wed Oct 19, 2022 1:50 pm
CaptainAwesome wrote: Wed Oct 19, 2022 12:43 pm
JohnHelton wrote: Wed Oct 19, 2022 4:25 am
CaptainAwesome wrote: Wed Oct 19, 2022 4:14 am Sort of cutting now. I'm trying to keep it to only a pound a week, though. Rule of thumb is gonna be when I lose more than a pound in a week, I do some refeeding. My belt is already down one hole in tightness after 3 weeks. Can't really evaluate my strength level too well, since I hurt my back recently and it's fucked up a lot of my lifting.
It is probably best not to evaluate your strength while cutting. Doing so isn't good for motivation.
I like to have some idea where I'm at. Anyway, it's more of a mini-cut. I just didn't like creeping past 300 pounds. I might knock it off as soon as hitting 290. People seem to think you can gain while losing weight if you're past 20% bodyfat anyway.
Really depends on how much of your potential strength you have realized at your current amount of LBM. If you've been doing a lot of heavy SBD on your bulk then I would expect to lose strength on a cut. If you've been doing all isolation work or high rep SBD work then I would expect the opposite if you switch over to high intensity work on a cut.
I've actually been doing more assistance/isolation stuff. Not a ton, but enough that I'm feeling it for sure. Previously I'd just been doing big four only type programming with pulldowns on the side. I don't wanna dedicate to a longer cut since I still have goal numbers I'm aiming to hit at least one of.

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Re: Who is on a cut?

#1497

Post by CaptainAwesome » Fri Oct 21, 2022 4:46 am

dw wrote: Wed Oct 19, 2022 6:31 am If your concern is strength and LBM preservation I think you can go harder than that if you keep up your lifting volume.
Sounds a lot like what I've read from Israetel. He's the first guy I've seen who seems to look at diet and training as things you periodize together. Have you seen any of his stuff bear out in your own experience?

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Re: Who is on a cut?

#1498

Post by dw » Fri Oct 21, 2022 6:50 am

CaptainAwesome wrote: Fri Oct 21, 2022 4:46 am
dw wrote: Wed Oct 19, 2022 6:31 am If your concern is strength and LBM preservation I think you can go harder than that if you keep up your lifting volume.
Sounds a lot like what I've read from Israetel. He's the first guy I've seen who seems to look at diet and training as things you periodize together. Have you seen any of his stuff bear out in your own experience?

For the last year or so I have kept my cuts from 2-4 weeks, usually 2 weeks, and have tried different cutting workouts - sometimes 20% less intensity and volume, sometimes just 20% less volume with intensity the same. I aim for about a 750 kcal per day deficit.

I'm currently leaning to the opinion that for a 2 weeks cut either way works fine but for 3-4 weeks there's a difference between the effect of easy mode workouts and harder but still reduced volume workouts. Basically I think it takes about 2 weeks rather than 1 week to get back to where I was... I think due to a slight decrease of LBM as strength shouldn't take even 2 weeks to bounce back.

So I don't know. I do know I have often gained strength in a deficit when I was trying a new movement or a movement I had neglected for a long time. Most recently I started good mornings in a deficit and rapidly improved in them, but then I had never done them before.

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Re: Who is on a cut?

#1499

Post by JohnHelton » Fri Oct 21, 2022 8:45 am

@dw How have the mini-cuts worked for you? Are you able to keep the weight off?

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Re: Who is on a cut?

#1500

Post by augeleven » Fri Oct 21, 2022 8:58 am

@dw also where does the mini cut relate to body fat percentage, or general weight loss goals?
I would like to eventually (successfully) leave the land of the perma-cut, but for compliance’s sake a steady and approach works best. Or at least it further defers the (inevitable?) yo-yo upswing.

My cut update: I’m now about where I was in late May, so I’ve undone most of my summertime debauchery.
I’m only about 20 pounds down from where I was this time last year, but I’m feeling comfortable about focusing on weight loss through this school year enough to put it more in the back burner for next year.

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