Who is on a cut?

[Wayne]

I aim for about 50g of protein per meal, 4 meals a day. I usually have meat 2x a day (around 6oz each) and get the rest from other sources (yogurt / whey if required)

Any more than 4 meals becomes inconvenient to me, but I could drop to 3 quite easily timing wise. To hit the macros each meal would need to be much bigger though.

[MPhelps]

The evidence that a high protein intake is for important strength and hypertrophy outcomes seems pretty ironclad. I'm curious what scared you so much that you cut out all meat, eggs, and dairy. I don't see any good reason to not eat those foods (excepting the ethical ones, which may be under-appreciated).

Cardio vascular health. Plants have complete proteins. Not scared, just trying something different at age 43. High protein wasn't working. The list of reasons goes on but I'm wholly unwilling to argue an unpopular viewpoint. There are plenty of places to read about plant based diets.

Most of those places are of dubious scientific quality. (Though of course fruits and vegetables are an essential component of a balanced diet.) I'm not trying to start an argument, but let me gently suggest you might be receiving some incorrect info, especially if you're getting told that protein alone is wrecking your cardiovascular health.

Certain sources of protein may high in saturated fat, which in my understanding is no bueno for heart health, but that's why we have skim milk and whey protein.

Medical doctors who work with obesity patients, PhDs and nutritionists are not necessary using dubious science. I didn't say protein causes poor cardiovascular health. I was alluding to eggs, dairy and meat causing high cholesterol. I don't really need to hear a chiropractor to tell me otherwise.

[PatrickDB]

Medical doctors who work with obesity patients, PhDs and nutritionists are not necessary using dubious science. I didn't say protein causes poor cardiovascular health. I was alluding to eggs, dairy and meat causing high cholesterol. I don't really need to hear a chiropractor to tell me otherwise.

I'm not a chiropractor.

You originally wrote the following, which to me sounded like you were pinning the blame on the protein itself, not any concomitant cholesterol or saturated fat. I apologize for the misunderstanding.

I've been reading (proteinaholic by Dr. Garth Brooks and YouTube vids) a lot about protein overconsumption, and I've cut out all protein supplementation and just get it from beans, rice and oats.

However, to reiterate Tim's point, there are plenty of ways to get protein without cholesterol, so if you're interested in strength and hypertrophy it does't seem necessary to sacrifice your protein intake for the sake of lowering your cholesterol. (Though maybe you just don't care that much, or don't like the way low cholesterol sources of protein taste, or whatever.)

[MPhelps]

Medical doctors who work with obesity patients, PhDs and nutritionists are not necessary using dubious science. I didn't say protein causes poor cardiovascular health. I was alluding to eggs, dairy and meat causing high cholesterol. I don't really need to hear a chiropractor to tell me otherwise.

I'm not a chiropractor.

You originally wrote the following, which to me sounded like you were pinning the blame on the protein itself, not any concomitant cholesterol or saturated fat. I apologize for the misunderstanding.

I've been reading (proteinaholic by Dr. Garth Brooks and YouTube vids) a lot about protein overconsumption, and I've cut out all protein supplementation and just get it from beans, rice and oats.

However, to reiterate Tim's point, there are plenty of ways to get protein without cholesterol, so if you're interested in strength and hypertrophy it does't seem necessary to sacrifice your protein intake for the sake of lowering your cholesterol. (Though maybe you just don't care that much, or don't like the way low cholesterol sources of protein taste, or whatever.)

I wasn't insinuating that you are a chiropractor, it just seems there are a lot of them in the diet world using the prefix doctor prominently in their name. The reason I'm not eating extra protein is because I don't feel that it's necessary for my current goal which is not hypertrophy. I've been doing cardio and lighter weight training for maintenance of technique and strength.

[JohnHelton]

I went out to eat the last couple nights. Didn't eat a ton, but it seems that eating at restaurants causes me a massive amount water retention. I gained 4 lbs. from Friday morning to this morning. In addition to gaining 4 lbs., my impedance scale says my body fat dropped to from 16.0% to 13.1%...which is totally false. It just reads low when you are retaining water. My inflammation is so bad that my lower back is hurts with a bit of sciatica.

Even if I know it is just water, these step backs suck. Plus, I'm planning to pull deadlifts today, which I don't feel like doing with a janky back.

[JohnHelton]

Also, any thoughts on the RP Templates from guys that have tried them? @Toxguy @dcw

I've looked at the examples briefly, and making it work seems more complicated than just counting macros. Also less flexible. Vegetables with every meal?!? How do you coordinate the diet and eat with other people (i.e. spouse). All that being said, it seems to work amazingly well when one complies.

[Toxguy]

@JohnHelton

Hey man! The RP templates seem really daunting at first but they give a ton of info to help you out (a FAQ, videos, etc. come with the template when you purchase it). They also let you in on the private RP Facebook page where you can ask questions. It’s honestly macro based—they give lists of food (lots of choices!) to choose from and just tell you to hit macro targets (I.e. 40g protein, 15g fat, 40 g carbs) over 6 meals. So this allows for a decent bit of flexibility with your choices.

The layout of the diet is composed of several tabs. You stay on each tab a minimum of 2 weeks. If at the end of two weeks you are not losing at 1-2 pounds then you progress to the next tab.

Base tab-this is like a maintenance diet. It gets you used to the way RP thinks you should eat for your given BW. Some people lose weight on this while others don’t.

Fat loss 1- this is the first caloric drop and it typically drops fats first

Fat loss 2- second caloric drop. Typically from carbs

Fat loss 3- third and final caloric drop. Fats and carbs are depleted to trace amounts. This sucks. You don’t ever want to go here.

Maintenance 1/2- this is to teach you how to maintain your new weight!

I lost 25 pounds with the template and was not always 100% compliant. I increased strength on all my lifts and was making gains until I had to get to FL3.i also didn’t eat the vegetable amount—but you should try lol. I’m doing the massing template and have gained 20 pounds but am muuuch leaner at 230 than before. Eating with other people who are not dieting is tough. They don’t recommend it. It is just 3 months for you to focus and hit your goal. With that said, if you keep it to a minimum I think you’ll be fine. But don’t get pissed at the diet not working if you cheat 3x week every week. Not everybody is compliant—but I have seen people who are compliant but they take awhile to get results so cheating for them derails them hard. Hope this helps!

[JohnHelton]

@JohnHelton

Hey man! The RP templates seem really daunting at first but they give a ton of info to help you out (a FAQ, videos, etc. come with the template when you purchase it). They also let you in on the private RP Facebook page where you can ask questions. It’s honestly macro based—they give lists of food (lots of choices!) to choose from and just tell you to hit macro targets (I.e. 40g protein, 15g fat, 40 g carbs) over 6 meals. So this allows for a decent bit of flexibility with your choices.

The layout of the diet is composed of several tabs. You stay on each tab a minimum of 2 weeks. If at the end of two weeks you are not losing at 1-2 pounds then you progress to the next tab.

Base tab-this is like a maintenance diet. It gets you used to the way RP thinks you should eat for your given BW. Some people lose weight on this while others don’t.

Fat loss 1- this is the first caloric drop and it typically drops fats first

Fat loss 2- second caloric drop. Typically from carbs

Fat loss 3- third and final caloric drop. Fats and carbs are depleted to trace amounts. This sucks. You don’t ever want to go here.

Maintenance 1/2- this is to teach you how to maintain your new weight!

I lost 25 pounds with the template and was not always 100% compliant. I increased strength on all my lifts and was making gains until I had to get to FL3.i also didn’t eat the vegetable amount—but you should try lol. I’m doing the massing template and have gained 20 pounds but am muuuch leaner at 230 than before. Eating with other people who are not dieting is tough. They don’t recommend it. It is just 3 months for you to focus and hit your goal. With that said, if you keep it to a minimum I think you’ll be fine. But don’t get pissed at the diet not working if you cheat 3x week every week. Not everybody is compliant—but I have seen people who are compliant but they take awhile to get results so cheating for them derails them hard. Hope this helps!

Very helpful. Thank you. So did you mostly prepare your foods in advance?

[augeleven]

I’m in. I added over an inch to my waist this summer, 42 inches. I think I’m going to follow cwd’s lead on the MATADOR diet, starting when I get back home.

[dcw]

Also, any thoughts on the RP Templates from guys that have tried them? @Toxguy @dcw

Tox covered pretty much everything well. I’ll second the notion that going out to eat/eating with others is, while totally possible, is mostly just a pain in the ass (for you and your friends). It’s best to just prepare all your food yourself; complete control.

I’m only on the first week of my cut, but I think one of the things I will come to like the most is the fact that the changes (base to fat loss 1, to fat loss 2, etc..) are made for you, especially when the diet is over and you transition back to a new base. Like a programming template, everything is laid out and all you have to do is follow the program.

I will say it’s a bit different eating life cereal, skim milk, oranges, and a TOMATO for breakfast. Lol

[Toxguy]

@JohnHelton

Hey man! The RP templates seem really daunting at first but they give a ton of info to help you out (a FAQ, videos, etc. come with the template when you purchase it). They also let you in on the private RP Facebook page where you can ask questions. It’s honestly macro based—they give lists of food (lots of choices!) to choose from and just tell you to hit macro targets (I.e. 40g protein, 15g fat, 40 g carbs) over 6 meals. So this allows for a decent bit of flexibility with your choices.

The layout of the diet is composed of several tabs. You stay on each tab a minimum of 2 weeks. If at the end of two weeks you are not losing at 1-2 pounds then you progress to the next tab.

Base tab-this is like a maintenance diet. It gets you used to the way RP thinks you should eat for your given BW. Some people lose weight on this while others don’t.

Fat loss 1- this is the first caloric drop and it typically drops fats first

Fat loss 2- second caloric drop. Typically from carbs

Fat loss 3- third and final caloric drop. Fats and carbs are depleted to trace amounts. This sucks. You don’t ever want to go here.

Maintenance 1/2- this is to teach you how to maintain your new weight!

I lost 25 pounds with the template and was not always 100% compliant. I increased strength on all my lifts and was making gains until I had to get to FL3.i also didn’t eat the vegetable amount—but you should try lol. I’m doing the massing template and have gained 20 pounds but am muuuch leaner at 230 than before. Eating with other people who are not dieting is tough. They don’t recommend it. It is just 3 months for you to focus and hit your goal. With that said, if you keep it to a minimum I think you’ll be fine. But don’t get pissed at the diet not working if you cheat 3x week every week. Not everybody is compliant—but I have seen people who are compliant but they take awhile to get results so cheating for them derails them hard. Hope this helps!

Very helpful. Thank you. So did you mostly prepare your foods in advance?

I did not. My schedule is really flexible at the moment and I live right down the street from work so I can pretty much make everything right quick. I also don’t like meal prepping mass amounts of food in advance. By the end of the week they just taste bad, in my opinion. I stuck with really simple stuff. Eggs, egg whites (when fats got dropped), lean beef, rice, potatoes, skim milk, protein shakes, etc. I don’t mind eating the same simple things over and over again so it wasn’t an issue. My girlfriend ran the templates and premade all of her meals except dinner. You can do either one. Whatever fits your schedule.

[Toxguy]

Oh, and diet cokes. I lived off those

[broseph]

life cereal

I love Life cereal. But it’s pretty dense compared to other cereals. I eat Froot Loops when cutting because I can fill an entire bowl and it’s only 2.5 servings. Compared to a bowl full of Life being 4 servings.

[quark]

Regarding the MATADOR diet, https://forum.barbellmedicine.com/forum ... tador-diet There could have been a bit more of an answer.

[augeleven]

That’s the standard diet answer. It may help with compliance. I thought the studies show that essentially nothing helps with long term weight loss. I have serious compliance issues with regards to food, maybe this will work

[ch]

Oh, and diet cokes. I lived off those

My poison is Diet Dr. Pepper.

I really wish I could convince myself that I like plain tap water, but I really like bubbles.

[dcw]

life cereal

I love Life cereal. But it’s pretty dense compared to other cereals. I eat Froot Loops when cutting because I can fill an entire bowl and it’s only 2.5 servings. Compared to a bowl full of Life being 4 servings.

Thanks. This will be useful in a few weeks when i'm hangry.

[broseph]

Diet soda is absolutely essential for cutting.

life cereal

I love Life cereal. But it’s pretty dense compared to other cereals. I eat Froot Loops when cutting because I can fill an entire bowl and it’s only 2.5 servings. Compared to a bowl full of Life being 4 servings.

Thanks. This will be useful in a few weeks when i'm hangry.

I think if we want to be really technical, 2.5 servings of masticated Life probably take up about the same amount of space as 2.5 servings of masticated Froot Loops. But the fact that the Froot Loops take up more space in the bowl, premasticated, means you get to take longer to eat and pretend it's more food.

[dcw]

+1 for the liberal use of mastication. I remember learning that way back in A&P in college and wondering why it wasn't the default word for chewing.

[cwd]

Re: MATADOR,

That’s the standard diet answer. "It may help with compliance." I thought the studies show that essentially nothing helps with long term weight loss. I have serious compliance issues with regards to food, maybe this will work

One good thing I've noticed from doing this style of dieting is that I'm practicing "maintenance" as part of the diet itself.

In theory you expect to do maintenance for few weeks after any diet. But in practice, after many weeks of hunger and discipline, there's a very strong tendency to just cut loose for "a few days" which turns into "until the next upcoming New Year's Day". At which point you've regained everything.

But with this scheme, I cut for 2 weeks and am proud of losing N pounds but not burned out yet. Then I get 2 weeks of maintaining that weight, at which point I'm ready for another short cut.

At the eventual end of the diet I'll have gotten a lot of practice maintaining, and at transitioning from cutting to maintaining without losing control.