RPE Megathread: The Sweet Smell of Easy.

[Stoop]

My next higher rep block was going to be compounds of mostly 6- 8 reps for 4 sets at RPE: 6/7/8/8 but now I might do 6-8 reps for 5-6 sets at RPE: 5/6/7/7/7/7. Then next block drop the reps to 4-6 and add another set at RPE 7 to be at 7 sets x RPE 6-7.

That looks good to me.

Once you get near novel lifetime e1RMs,and want to shift to a "quasi-peak" I think you could drop RPEs even lower for most sets.

Here's what my (personal) sessions look like in peak mode

1) 10 doubles @ 80-82% (nothing at/or over RPE 7)

2) 10 triples with 75-77% (nothing at/over RPE 7)

3) 15-18 singles with 85% (sometimes doubles because I'm impatient....these creep into RPE 7-8)

4) A few singles with 87.5% and a few more singles with 92-95ish% (this session is high RPE)

I'm only really ever 6-8 weeks away from PR e1RM's (benefits of being weak), so I'll build up to to a peak around January and hopefully smash the 2021 goals that are still left. 315 Front Squat and 500 DL shall fall.

[Hanley]

315 Front Squat and 500 DL shall fall.

Nice, man.

That's an awesome PR combo.

[michael]

@JohnHelton, the spreadsheet is private.

[JohnHelton]

@JohnHelton, the spreadsheet is private.

Try this: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... sp=sharing
It is public. You just have to make a copy of it in order to edit it.

[SnakePlissken]

Here's a Development block I wrote.

Mon:
Squat w/Belt; 1@8, 6@9, 4x6@70%
Press w/Belt; 1@8, 5@9, 5x5@73%
Incline Bench; 8@7/8/9/LDx1
Tues:
Deadlift w/Belt; 1@8, 6@9, 4x6@70%
1ct Bench; 1@8, 5@9, 5x5@73%
High Bar Squat; 10@7/8/9/LDx1-2
Thur:
2ct Squat; 4@7/8/9/LDx2-3
3ct Bench; 4@7/8/9/LDx2-3
Weighted Dips; 8@7/8/9/LDx1
Fri:
2ct (mid-shin) Deadlift; 4@7/8/9/LDx2-3
2ct (forehead) Press; 4@7/8/9/LDx2-3
RDL; 10@7/8/9/LDx1-2

Some of my reasoning. Want to get better at the Big 4 lifts so each has a Primary, Secondary, and Tertiary movement. Some people will see that this looks very similar to a BBM template because it's heavily influenced off them, but with some slightly different nuances.

Primary movements are all a top single, a top working set and low intensity backoffs.
Secondary movements are all high relative intensity (4s) with moderate volume and represent the primary movement (eg, just a pause at the weak spot).
Tertiary movements are all higher reps (8-10) and work musculature over movement patterns. Inclines drive my bench well, Dips drive my press well, and RDLs drive my DL well.

Don't know what I'll do for a Pivot block though or even how long this will last.

Thoughts? Comments?

[mgil]

Looks okay, provided you have the time.

I’d possibly consider switching to 1@8 then a 3@8 on the primary lifts later on.

[SnakePlissken]

Yeah, I have a home gym and lift right after work so time isn't a big issue.

And you kinda read my mind with the lower reps later on. I'm trying 5s and 6s on the primary movements to see what happens (I'm doing 4s and 5s right now). I want to experiment with 3s and 4s later down the road though.

[MattBulmer]

Here's a Development block I wrote.

Mon:
Squat w/Belt; 1@8, 6@9, 4x6@70%
Press w/Belt; 1@8, 5@9, 5x5@73%
Incline Bench; 8@7/8/9/LDx1
Tues:
Deadlift w/Belt; 1@8, 6@9, 4x6@70%
1ct Bench; 1@8, 5@9, 5x5@73%
High Bar Squat; 10@7/8/9/LDx1-2
Thur:
2ct Squat; 4@7/8/9/LDx2-3
3ct Bench; 4@7/8/9/LDx2-3
Weighted Dips; 8@7/8/9/LDx1
Fri:
2ct (mid-shin) Deadlift; 4@7/8/9/LDx2-3
2ct (forehead) Press; 4@7/8/9/LDx2-3
RDL; 10@7/8/9/LDx1-2

Some of my reasoning. Want to get better at the Big 4 lifts so each has a Primary, Secondary, and Tertiary movement. Some people will see that this looks very similar to a BBM template because it's heavily influenced off them, but with some slightly different nuances.

Primary movements are all a top single, a top working set and low intensity backoffs.
Secondary movements are all high relative intensity (4s) with moderate volume and represent the primary movement (eg, just a pause at the weak spot).
Tertiary movements are all higher reps (8-10) and work musculature over movement patterns. Inclines drive my bench well, Dips drive my press well, and RDLs drive my DL well.

Don't know what I'll do for a Pivot block though or even how long this will last.

Thoughts? Comments?

Can see the BBM/RTS influence.

As with @mgil comments, looks quite high volume. What volume did your last development block include, out of interest?

Also, as discussed here (viewtopic.php?f=3&t=3801&start=40) BBM seem to have moved more towards lower RPEs on top singles/sets. May be worth considering, depending on how you respond to higher intensities.

[SnakePlissken]

Here's a Development block I wrote.

Mon:
Squat w/Belt; 1@8, 6@9, 4x6@70%
Press w/Belt; 1@8, 5@9, 5x5@73%
Incline Bench; 8@7/8/9/LDx1
Tues:
Deadlift w/Belt; 1@8, 6@9, 4x6@70%
1ct Bench; 1@8, 5@9, 5x5@73%
High Bar Squat; 10@7/8/9/LDx1-2
Thur:
2ct Squat; 4@7/8/9/LDx2-3
3ct Bench; 4@7/8/9/LDx2-3
Weighted Dips; 8@7/8/9/LDx1
Fri:
2ct (mid-shin) Deadlift; 4@7/8/9/LDx2-3
2ct (forehead) Press; 4@7/8/9/LDx2-3
RDL; 10@7/8/9/LDx1-2

Some of my reasoning. Want to get better at the Big 4 lifts so each has a Primary, Secondary, and Tertiary movement. Some people will see that this looks very similar to a BBM template because it's heavily influenced off them, but with some slightly different nuances.

Primary movements are all a top single, a top working set and low intensity backoffs.
Secondary movements are all high relative intensity (4s) with moderate volume and represent the primary movement (eg, just a pause at the weak spot).
Tertiary movements are all higher reps (8-10) and work musculature over movement patterns. Inclines drive my bench well, Dips drive my press well, and RDLs drive my DL well.

Don't know what I'll do for a Pivot block though or even how long this will last.

Thoughts? Comments?

Can see the BBM/RTS influence.

As with @mgil comments, looks quite high volume. What volume did your last development block include, out of interest?

Also, as discussed here (viewtopic.php?f=3&t=3801&start=40) BBM seem to have moved more towards lower RPEs on top singles/sets. May be worth considering, depending on how you respond to higher intensities.

I'm in the middle of the 12 Week Press Template right now so the volume is roughly the same, but with a few different rep ranges and exercises (that I know work well for me).

As for the lower RPE prescriptions, I actually didn't know that. I just reread @mgil 's response I noticed he said 3@8, not 3@9. With this in mind maybe I should do a 1@7, 5-6@8 for my top sets?

[MattBulmer]

As for the lower RPE prescriptions, I actually didn't know that. I just reread @mgil 's response I noticed he said 3@8, not 3@9. With this in mind maybe I should do a 1@7, 5-6@8 for my top sets?

Podcast here:

Well worth a listen.

[SnakePlissken]

As for the lower RPE prescriptions, I actually didn't know that. I just reread @mgil 's response I noticed he said 3@8, not 3@9. With this in mind maybe I should do a 1@7, 5-6@8 for my top sets?

Podcast here:

Well worth a listen.

Ty ty

[MattBulmer]

@SnakePlissken in the podcast, Austin mentions he had been speaking to the Date Driven Strength guys on proximity to failure.

Their thinking is here: https://myojournal.com/rethinking-proxi ... gth-gains/

Also, outlined in this x1@8 podcast: https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/x ... 0499041111

[SnakePlissken]

@SnakePlissken in the podcast, Austin mentions he had been speaking to the Date Driven Strength guys on proximity to failure.

Their thinking is here: https://myojournal.com/rethinking-proxi ... gth-gains/

Also, outlined in this x1@8 podcast: https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/x ... 0499041111

Never heard of Data Driven Strength before, but I listened to their podcast you linked and they made a lot of sense.

Really liked the bit where they discussed that the first rep in your set is always the highest force production (assuming you're putting the same relative effort into each rep) because that's your rep with the highest acceleration. The only reason to train over 85% is when you're training the skill component for demonstrating a 1RM which should be done judiciously since they're inherently more fatiguing.

So by this logic, maybe a better strategy on my competition lifts would be to do a 1@7 (~89%) and a 2-3@8 (~86-89%) for a top work set even if my backoff work is in a higher rep range? I guess what I'm trying to get at is, there seems to be a balance you have to find between maintaining your 1RM skill vs how much backoff volume you need to reinforce and gain strength in that movement; question is what is that good balance?

[mgil]

Doing a 1@7 and 2-3@8 with back offs in the @7 or under range is a pretty good strategy for someone with a “younger” training history since you’re trying to gain two adaptations at the same time. When the load gets to be heavy a single at 7 might still be damn fatiguing, and that’s when you start to separate out the “skill” days from the “growth” days.

[SnakePlissken]

Doing a 1@7 and 2-3@8 with back offs in the @7 or under range is a pretty good strategy for someone with a “younger” training history since you’re trying to gain two adaptations at the same time. When the load gets to be heavy a single at 7 might still be damn fatiguing, and that’s when you start to separate out the “skill” days from the “growth” days.

That makes a lot of sense. I don't think I'm at that point yet, but would that look like what Baraki posted a few pages back in this thread?

His Deadlift w/Belt day had some moderately hard singles, triples, and 4s as backoffs and his 2ct/Deficit DL days were moderately hard 6s for more volume.

[mgil]

Yeah, but the swap to a deficit or pin squat makes the movement “harder” but without incurring the same amount of fatigue a x5@8 set of the normal movement would because the absolute load is smaller.

[DPriest442]

Here's a Development block I wrote.

Mon:
Squat w/Belt; 1@8, 6@9, 4x6@70%
Press w/Belt; 1@8, 5@9, 5x5@73%
Incline Bench; 8@7/8/9/LDx1
Tues:
Deadlift w/Belt; 1@8, 6@9, 4x6@70%
1ct Bench; 1@8, 5@9, 5x5@73%
High Bar Squat; 10@7/8/9/LDx1-2
Thur:
2ct Squat; 4@7/8/9/LDx2-3
3ct Bench; 4@7/8/9/LDx2-3
Weighted Dips; 8@7/8/9/LDx1
Fri:
2ct (mid-shin) Deadlift; 4@7/8/9/LDx2-3
2ct (forehead) Press; 4@7/8/9/LDx2-3
RDL; 10@7/8/9/LDx1-2

Some of my reasoning. Want to get better at the Big 4 lifts so each has a Primary, Secondary, and Tertiary movement. Some people will see that this looks very similar to a BBM template because it's heavily influenced off them, but with some slightly different nuances.

Primary movements are all a top single, a top working set and low intensity backoffs.
Secondary movements are all high relative intensity (4s) with moderate volume and represent the primary movement (eg, just a pause at the weak spot).
Tertiary movements are all higher reps (8-10) and work musculature over movement patterns. Inclines drive my bench well, Dips drive my press well, and RDLs drive my DL well.

Don't know what I'll do for a Pivot block though or even how long this will last.

Thoughts? Comments?

How do you determine load drop? Usually In the past I did BBM style with 4 @ 7/8/9 then 1-3 sets of -5% but thinking about changing things up to fit with the lower fatigue them to 4 @ 6/7/8 with 2-4 sets with -10% instead

[RyanHartigan]

Usually In the past I did BBM style with 4 @ 7/8/9 then 1-3 sets of -5% but thinking about changing things up to fit with the lower fatigue them to 4 @ 6/7/8 with 2-4 sets with -10% instead

Many moons ago before stress index was a thing, Mike T would program 'fatigue' drops (contrast with sets across or 'repeats') usually with a pyramid ascending set scheme (4@7/8/9/5%LD)

Fatigue drops were an autoregulation method, so it wasn't 1-3 sets, it was drop 5% after your 4@9, and then do 4's at -5% until you hit @9 again, which would be 5% fatigue (and incidentally 1-3 sets). It was usually 4-6% on an ordinary day and 6-9% on a higher stress week, potentially more. With time it became 5 and 10% because 4-6 was a rounding error in practice.

You would use this to plan your weeks e.g. that was a 30% fatigue on bench or whatever.

It was an interesting concept, and the programming is effective, but there are simpler or better ways to write the prescriptions now, and fatigue %s aren't used as a metric for stress at all.

For example: it takes some time to explain and understand the fatigue concept, but with an athlete I can just say "4@7/8/9/-5% (Stop@9)". Or in your case, 4@6/7/8/-10% (Stop @8). Also use TRAC or SI or some other mechanism for monitoring stress vs fatigue %s.

See this for example: https://articles.reactivetrainingsystem ... chscherer/ cf. the updated one I wrote in the OP.

[SnakePlissken]

Here's a Development block I wrote.

Mon:
Squat w/Belt; 1@8, 6@9, 4x6@70%
Press w/Belt; 1@8, 5@9, 5x5@73%
Incline Bench; 8@7/8/9/LDx1
Tues:
Deadlift w/Belt; 1@8, 6@9, 4x6@70%
1ct Bench; 1@8, 5@9, 5x5@73%
High Bar Squat; 10@7/8/9/LDx1-2
Thur:
2ct Squat; 4@7/8/9/LDx2-3
3ct Bench; 4@7/8/9/LDx2-3
Weighted Dips; 8@7/8/9/LDx1
Fri:
2ct (mid-shin) Deadlift; 4@7/8/9/LDx2-3
2ct (forehead) Press; 4@7/8/9/LDx2-3
RDL; 10@7/8/9/LDx1-2

Some of my reasoning. Want to get better at the Big 4 lifts so each has a Primary, Secondary, and Tertiary movement. Some people will see that this looks very similar to a BBM template because it's heavily influenced off them, but with some slightly different nuances.

Primary movements are all a top single, a top working set and low intensity backoffs.
Secondary movements are all high relative intensity (4s) with moderate volume and represent the primary movement (eg, just a pause at the weak spot).
Tertiary movements are all higher reps (8-10) and work musculature over movement patterns. Inclines drive my bench well, Dips drive my press well, and RDLs drive my DL well.

Don't know what I'll do for a Pivot block though or even how long this will last.

Thoughts? Comments?

How do you determine load drop? Usually In the past I did BBM style with 4 @ 7/8/9 then 1-3 sets of -5% but thinking about changing things up to fit with the lower fatigue them to 4 @ 6/7/8 with 2-4 sets with -10% instead

Almost all of my Load Drops are -5% from the top set, but I've had bad days before where I wasn't hitting numbers like I should (for instance I may do that today considering fireworks kept me and my dog up and my next door neighbors had obnoxious people over) so I got horrible sleep. If my top set numbers are below expectations and I feel horrible I'll do a -8% LD and keep volume the same.

[SnakePlissken]

Usually In the past I did BBM style with 4 @ 7/8/9 then 1-3 sets of -5% but thinking about changing things up to fit with the lower fatigue them to 4 @ 6/7/8 with 2-4 sets with -10% instead

Many moons ago before stress index was a thing, Mike T would program 'fatigue' drops (contrast with sets across or 'repeats') usually with a pyramid ascending set scheme (4@7/8/9/5%LD)

Fatigue drops were an autoregulation method, so it wasn't 1-3 sets, it was drop 5% after your 4@9, and then do 4's at -5% until you hit @9 again, which would be 5% fatigue (and incidentally 1-3 sets). It was usually 4-6% on an ordinary day and 6-9% on a higher stress week, potentially more. With time it became 5 and 10% because 4-6 was a rounding error in practice.

You would use this to plan your weeks e.g. that was a 30% fatigue on bench or whatever.

It was an interesting concept, and the programming is effective, but there are simpler or better ways to write the prescriptions now, and fatigue %s aren't used as a metric for stress at all.

For example: it takes some time to explain and understand the fatigue concept, but with an athlete I can just say "4@7/8/9/-5% (Stop@9)". Or in your case, 4@6/7/8/-10% (Stop @8). Also use TRAC or SI or some other mechanism for monitoring stress vs fatigue %s.

See this for example: https://articles.reactivetrainingsystem ... chscherer/ cf. the updated one I wrote in the OP.

I actually did this when I did the RTS GI program back in August and September in preparation for a Meet (that got cancelled anyway), but I crashed and burned on that. When I started I didn't realize Mike T didn't use it anymore and my Squat and DL numbers plummeted like 30-40lb each over about 5 weeks. My bench went up because it was way more benching than I was used to previously, but I'm horrified by doing Fatigue Sets at this point. I have had very good success though with doing Load Drops still, but at fixed volumes or even saying "Do 2-3 more sets with no sets over RPE8.5."

The first post in this thread has a "modified" RTS GI program written and I honestly wouldn't mind trying it out again as an exploration block (with more fixed volume). I'm not sure if it was the low rep ranges on the Squat and DL that killed me or the fact that I was able to do 6 or 7 backoff sets sometimes before hitting @9s again, but then crashing the next week because I was beat up.