Crucial Timing for Food

[OrderInChaos]

What are the most crucial timing aspects of a diet that actually matter? I strongly agree with the Israetel/Feigenbaum/rational folks notion that meal timing is largely irrelevant for specific metabolic purposes, but have found certain protocols more favorable to my own cravings-cycles. @cwd's approach of tracking hunger-hours seems pretty cool in that regard!

Specifically, I've received the following tidbits from different sources:

1. Eat a high fat, high protein, no simple sugars breakfast ASAP after waking
2. Eat 25-50g of non-fructose carbohydrate 1-2hrs pre-workout
3. Eat a 30-50g of protein meal/shake/snack within ~an hour postworkout.

1. is advice from a neuroscience/psychologist buddy of mine; it aims to stabilize blood sugar, hormones, and regulate mood/impulse control through the early chunk of the day, nothing broscience/MPS-related beyond helping with diet compliance. 2. is the general advice to have intramuscular glycogen stores ready and available midworkout. 3. is pretty typical broscience and alleged not to matter too much, as long as that protein dose does happen at some point post-workout.

What could be added to this list, and are any of those numbers way off, and is any of the above bunk/founded on less-than-rigorous foundations?

[JohnHelton]

I really only worry about having 4 meals with 40g of protein spaced out 2.5-3 hours apart for MPS. I often skip breakfast. My lifts also don’t seem to be affected by my carb consumption. So I don’t worry about that. I do try to have protein within a reasonable amount of time after a workout.

Regarding carbs, it seems to me they would be more important if you were truly burning a lot of calories while lifting. I think (could be wrong) that you are generally using your ATP-PC and aerobic systems. Anaerobic would kick in more for doing lots of high rep stuff or XFit, etc. I only say your aerobic system, because Nuckols makes the case for a strong aerobic system as a lifter gets stronger, and I buy his argument.

[TimK]

My compliance with a hypocaloric diet is greatly improved when I save my calories for when I'm actually hungry, which for me means I don't eat breakfast. I typically have my first meal 3-5 hours after waking. That way I can still eat my last meal later at night when I'm feeling hungry and would otherwise be tempted to snack.

[michael]

I really only worry about having 4 meals with 40g of protein spaced out 2.5-3 hours apart for MPS.

I think it should be 3-5 hours apart.

[BenM]

I'm not entirely sure about 1, well specifically the 'no simple sugars' part, unless you just mean no orange juice/sugary cereals which I can get on board with.

I have heard people like Stan Efferding and others say he prefers his athletes to avoid carbs at breakfast time - and I kinda understand the idea that you don't want to spike blood sugar too much immediately on waking. OTOH I also feel like carbs are needed for energy and I personally feel better through the morning if I get at least _some_ carbs_ at breakfast time (my standard 'carb heavy' breakfast is around 40g, from oats and milk and yoghurt) - so I tend to do that most days, but a couple of days a week try to go for a low carb breakfast (or skip it altogether) to try and keep some level of metabolic flexibility.....

[TheCheat]

Spread your protein out. If you're one of those weirdos who trains multiple times a day, some fast digesting carbs post workout is important. Everything else is personal preference, just listen to your body. If carbs in the morning make you feel sleepy, don't have carbs in the morning. If they give you tons of energy for the day ahead, have carbs for breakfast. I wouldn't even worry too much about the (theoretical) MPS refractory thing, plenty of people got big and strong using the old 'gotta eat every 2 hours' method.

[JohnHelton]

I really only worry about having 4 meals with 40g of protein spaced out 2.5-3 hours apart for MPS.

I think it should be 3-5 hours apart.

https://forum.barbellmedicine.com/forum ... ory-period

According to @JordanFeigenbaum, the refractory period is 2.5-3 hours. Since I find that my compliance is better with a compressed eating window, then I try to eat (or supplement with whey) every 2.5-3 hours during that window. Obviously, you can space it out more if you aren't eating in a compressed window. Personal preference.

[broseph]

I wouldn't even worry too much about the (theoretical) MPS refractory thing, plenty of people got big and strong using the old 'gotta eat every 2 hours' method.

I imagine these folks are riding out the initial bout of MPS with their 2nd meal, and the machinery resets for the 3rd meal, and the cycle repeats all day. So they are getting less favorable nutrient partitioning every other meal, but it's probably not a huge deal.

This is all second hand information that I'm recycling, probably from Jordan, without sources. But the point is we agree that it probably isn't a big deal and my entire response is pointless.

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Anecdotally, I often do cardio a couple hours after lifting, and I have a meal in between. Usually something fast digesting, not for the sake of getting nutrients back to my (lol not really) critically depleted muscles, but so I don't get cramps and wet food burps during cardio.

[Wilhelm]

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2278544/