Body building programs/training?

[OCG]

So, anyone got some good ones? I'm not sure, do I just throw a bunch if isolation exercises into a body part split to "train like a bodybuilder"? How do I train like a bodybuilder, where do I start? Any good books?

[simonrest]

My gym has a copy of Arnold's encyclopedia of modern bodybuilding. I've flicked through it between sets, send pretty good, or at the very least fairly interesting

[EricK]

I think the two biggest factors would be to get leaner (while preserving the muscle you got) and adding volume to the "showy" muscles (using isolation stuff like you said). I think the number of sets taken within 0-2 reps of failure is the best way to measure stimulus for hypertrophy and that low weight/high reps are used to avoid injury (especially when using isolation movements).

Keep in mind, though, that is us probably an inadequate explanation of a borrowed idea.

[Allentown]

So, anyone got some good ones? I'm not sure, do I just throw a bunch if isolation exercises into a body part split to "train like a bodybuilder"? How do I train like a bodybuilder, where do I start? Any good books?

Be brutally strong with a monster work capacity.

I don't know of any actual programming, though.

[chrisd]

They're all sort of similar.

Assuming you're decently strong. Choose which part you want to work on, choose movements that work it. Rep ranges from 5 to 15 ish for many sets with limited rests.

[unruhschuh]

Andy Baker has an article on his old blog called The Body Builders Cure. He also sells his The KSC Method for Power Building, which he markets as "A complete blueprint for building mass, increasing strength, and enhancing your physique.".

He's more of a Body Builder himself. He claims there's even a photo of him in the October 2001 issue of Flex Magazine.

Also, look at his gimongous arms:


He just started what seems like a series on Powerbuilding: Powerbuilding 101: Back Training

[Les]

Since you are already doing the compound lifts, I would try some kind of powerbuilding routine. For the big lift you could do KUA ( I can explain the latest version in more detail if you are interested) or another type of solid progression. The assistance work would be higher reps with shorter rest times. 90 seconds to 2 minutes max between sets and shoot for 3 to 5 sets of 8-15 reps. You wouldn't even need to hit a set rep number, you could go till you have 1 left in the tank. So a routine would look something like this:

M- Bench + chest assistance (1-2 exercises), shoulder assistance (1-2 exercises), Triceps (1-2 assistance exercise)
T- DL + back assistance (3 exercises), Biceps (2 exercises)
Th- OHP + chest assistance (1-2 exercises), shoulder assistance (1-2 exercises), triceps (1 exercise), biceps (1 exercise)
F- Squat + leg assistance (3 exercises, 1 can be calf stuff), abs (1-2 exercises)

If you aren't sure about what kind of exercises to pick, I can help with that too. I just wanted to make sure you were sort of interested before I typed up a bunch of stuff.

[TimK]

Andy Baker has an article on his old blog called The Body Builders Cure. He also sells his The KSC Method for Power Building, which he markets as "A complete blueprint for building mass, increasing strength, and enhancing your physique.".

I have Andy's powerbuilding program. I'm going to give it a try for a while after the Fall Classic at the end of October. Should be a nice change of pace if nothing else. Without giving it all away it's basically a 5 day split with one "big" lift each day on a three week 8-5-2 rep rotation, followed by higher rep "bodybuilding" style assistance work.

[Bliss]

...

For the big lift you could do KUA ( I can explain the latest version in more detail if you are interested)

....

If you aren't sure about what kind of exercises to pick, I can help with that too. I just wanted to make sure you were sort of interested before I typed up a bunch of stuff.

Yes please and yes!

Yes becuase I can't refer back to the KUA thread on SS due to it getting torn apart, and yes because I want to move into more of a "building" direction and any help is great!

[unruhschuh]

Andy Baker has an article on his old blog called The Body Builders Cure. He also sells his The KSC Method for Power Building, which he markets as "A complete blueprint for building mass, increasing strength, and enhancing your physique.".

I have Andy's powerbuilding program. I'm going to give it a try for a while after the Fall Classic at the end of October. Should be a nice change of pace if nothing else. Without giving it all away it's basically a 5 day split with one "big" lift each day on a three week 8-5-2 rep rotation, followed by higher rep "bodybuilding" style assistance work.

Again without giving it all away, is it set up as a cyclical program, or in a linear fashion?

[Mahendra]

You could have a look at some of Mike Israetel's work. From my limited, basic understanding, for hypertrophy, he recommends the following:

- Train at an average intensity of 60-75% of your 1RM
- Use the rep range of 8-15 (depending on lift)
- Train each body part with at least 15 working sets per week, adding volume each week (in the form of sets & weight)
- For example, Week 1 of "legs" would be 15 working sets, then week 2 would be 16 working sets plus 5-10lbs (if possible)
- Keeping adding 1 set per week until you reach your MRV (maximum recoverable volume), then deload and run another cycle.
- Generally, most compound lifts count for multiple body parts. I.e. Bench press also works your triceps, but not directly. So you could say that 1 set of bench is equal to 1/2 or 1/3 of a set for triceps
- If you have access to a leg press machine, that will really help get in "leg" sets. I don't have access to one, and squatting at least 15 sets of 8-10 reps can be rough
- I believe he mentioned the following frequency: benching - 3-5x per week; squats - 2-3x per week; heavy pulls - 2x per week

I finished a 6 week cycle of a high volume block, and now I'm on my 2nd cycle (although slightly different from my first). I'd recommend starting no higher than 65% of your 1RM for sets of 8-12 (maybe 6 reps on deadlifts) and slowly going up from there. For me, weeks 1 & 2 were simple, 3 was OK, and then 4, 5, and 6 were hell.

[Allentown]

Since you are already doing the compound lifts, I would try some kind of powerbuilding routine. For the big lift you could do KUA ( I can explain the latest version in more detail if you are interested) or another type of solid progression. The assistance work would be higher reps with shorter rest times. 90 seconds to 2 minutes max between sets and shoot for 3 to 5 sets of 8-15 reps. You wouldn't even need to hit a set rep number, you could go till you have 1 left in the tank. So a routine would look something like this:

M- Bench + chest assistance (1-2 exercises), shoulder assistance (1-2 exercises), Triceps (1-2 assistance exercise)
T- DL + back assistance (3 exercises), Biceps (2 exercises)
Th- OHP + chest assistance (1-2 exercises), shoulder assistance (1-2 exercises), triceps (1 exercise), biceps (1 exercise)
F- Squat + leg assistance (3 exercises, 1 can be calf stuff), abs (1-2 exercises)

If you aren't sure about what kind of exercises to pick, I can help with that too. I just wanted to make sure you were sort of interested before I typed up a bunch of stuff.

KUA needs a thread here.

[TimK]

Andy Baker has an article on his old blog called The Body Builders Cure. He also sells his The KSC Method for Power Building, which he markets as "A complete blueprint for building mass, increasing strength, and enhancing your physique.".

I have Andy's powerbuilding program. I'm going to give it a try for a while after the Fall Classic at the end of October. Should be a nice change of pace if nothing else. Without giving it all away it's basically a 5 day split with one "big" lift each day on a three week 8-5-2 rep rotation, followed by higher rep "bodybuilding" style assistance work.

Again without giving it all away, is it set up as a cyclical program, or in a linear fashion?

I'm not sure I'm clear on how you're using those terms, but there's no overarching periodization scheme to it. Just keep rotating those rep ranges for the big lifts, trying each time to go a little heavier than you did three weeks ago. If you fail to hit your reps you repeat that weight in three weeks but keep going up in the other rep ranges. So if you only get four reps instead of five, you would still try to add weight on the following 2's and 8's weeks, but repeat that weight again when 5's come back around and hopefully make it.

I don't know how well it will work for me but I think the variety (both in rep ranges and assistance work) will be fun.

[unruhschuh]

I'm not sure I'm clear on how you're using those terms, but there's no overarching periodization scheme to it. Just keep rotating those rep ranges for the big lifts, trying each time to go a little heavier than you did three weeks ago. If you fail to hit your reps you repeat that weight in three weeks but keep going up in the other rep ranges. So if you only get four reps instead of five, you would still try to add weight on the following 2's and 8's weeks, but repeat that weight again when 5's come back around and hopefully make it.

I don't know how well it will work for me but I think the variety (both in rep ranges and assistance work) will be fun.

Linear being adding weight as long as you can and repeat weight until you finish the prescribed reps. Cyclical meaning using some form of periodization/peaking. What you wrote was exactly what I wanted to know. Thanks.

[Savs]

So, anyone got some good ones? I'm not sure, do I just throw a bunch if isolation exercises into a body part split to "train like a bodybuilder"? How do I train like a bodybuilder, where do I start? Any good books?

I'm very hesitant to contribute up here when the adults (massive and massively strong) are talking, so I'll phrase my contribution in the form of questions.

In the year of our Lord 1980 I weighed 145 lb and wore thick-lensed glasses. How was I going to ever get the girl and not have sand kicked in my face? I decided I should lift weights, and being extremely bookish I felt the first step should be to read a book about bodybuilding and lifting weights. My question is: Has anyone else read this book?

I thought it was pretty good. It had great black and white photos of Arnold and Franco, and even one or two of bikini-clad women. Was one of the women topless? Does anyone remember? Ah, forgive me, I digress.

The program I liked was a three-day split (is that the right use of the jargon?) with lots of supersetting. One worked out six days a week doing A B C A B C rest. I no longer have the book, but if I remember correctly, the workouts went something like this:
A: Deads, squats, leg extensions and curls, calves
B: "Chest/Back"
Bench supersetted with pull ups (behind the neck)
Incline bench supersetted with pull ups (in front of the neck)
Dips supersetted with rows (barbell or seated cable)
Flyes supersetted with more rows
C: "Shoulders/Arms"
Press (behind the neck)
Upright rows
Bent over Dumbbell raises
Tricep extensions (various ways) supersetted with curls (various ways) (~9 sets)

Comments: Ramped sets ("pyramid"?). 8 to 10 reps per set. Holy shit the pump on day C. One could, of course, skip day A with no ill effects.

[Allentown]

Heavy prowler walks can provide good leg work with lower stress than squats. In conjunction, obviously.

[Les]

Since you are already doing the compound lifts, I would try some kind of powerbuilding routine. For the big lift you could do KUA ( I can explain the latest version in more detail if you are interested) or another type of solid progression. The assistance work would be higher reps with shorter rest times. 90 seconds to 2 minutes max between sets and shoot for 3 to 5 sets of 8-15 reps. You wouldn't even need to hit a set rep number, you could go till you have 1 left in the tank. So a routine would look something like this:

M- Bench + chest assistance (1-2 exercises), shoulder assistance (1-2 exercises), Triceps (1-2 assistance exercise)
T- DL + back assistance (3 exercises), Biceps (2 exercises)
Th- OHP + chest assistance (1-2 exercises), shoulder assistance (1-2 exercises), triceps (1 exercise), biceps (1 exercise)
F- Squat + leg assistance (3 exercises, 1 can be calf stuff), abs (1-2 exercises)

If you aren't sure about what kind of exercises to pick, I can help with that too. I just wanted to make sure you were sort of interested before I typed up a bunch of stuff.

KUA needs a thread here.

I will try to put both 1.0 and 2.0 up this weekend or early next week. It is the end of the quarter, so I have to work a little this weekend to figure out performance and referral bonuses. Otherwise I will have a mutiny on my hands, and I will have to crack out some cute kitten pics to defuse the situation.

[BenM]

I think the stuff Andy is running in his barbell club is probably also a pretty good example of powerbuilding. Generally 3 sessions a week, generally each session based around one of the big lifts, undulating rep ranges (currently 8/5/2) with assistance and cosmetic work thrown into each session and some GPP once or twice a week too.

I’ve been doing it for a few months now and been pretty pleased with the results, since I’ve been eating in a surplus I’ve gained a few kilos of lean muscle fairly quickly (which was surprising since I’m not a total newbie any more). Actually feel like I’m starting to look like someone who lifts - a skinny guy who lifts, sure, but a physique is actually starting to develop.

[Bliss]

That's great to hear^
You shall crush it even more after your little uk break! As long as you don't go into "mini-cut" mode lol)))

Les, wait a second, so you saying KUA will get a proper write up again?? With appropriate pictures and stuff??
And work is a priority... over THAT???

[Bliss]

Was going to open another thread, but fuck it...not worth cluttering the forum, and if anything, it totally belongs here.

Thread on ss site for reference:

https://startingstrength.com/resources/ ... hp?t=76716

Mainly i wanted to ask Andy Baker about his recent chin-up article (hmmm...that topic IS worthy of a thread i reckon) and about the weighted chin-ups.

And decided to tack on a second thought, which is a collection of ideas i collected whilst studying various programming approaches, including his own stuff.

Really, looking for discussion and more input to consider an array of views and experience.

Summarising very succinctly, I'm interested in the optimal/preferred direction of programming the main barbell movements with the caveat of this backbone being suited to more of a bodybuilding/powerbuilding direction, by tacking on a nice volume of hypertrophy focused assistance.

The 3 approaches in question:

1) Radically split a lift into an intensity session and volume session, use both in the rotation (Texas method style)

2) Combine intensity and volume in one session (KUA top set + 4x4, RPE style single @8 + volume, a top set + % volume etc...)

3) Have neither, but have both...undulating from volume-oriented to intensity-oriented (Karl's 5/1 variation, Andy Baker's 8/5/2 etc.)