Fix my poverty bench?

[cgeorg]

My bench sucks. Could be a mix of programming and technique, but I mainly care about the technique side at this point. Most of the text comes from my log.

Last Friday, doing 1@8/3x8@7: Asked Ryan for a spot on the 205, which led to some discussion of bar path, grip, etc. I had been considering for a while now buying an hour session to work on bench w/him, and I think he ended up giving me what I needed in about 10 minutes for free. Good dude. Keys for me to remember - grip needs to go from thumb webbing to pad under pinkie. (Side note: I put the ring in between my middle and ring fingers.) Bar needs to stay over wrist, which needs to stay over elbows the whole time. Bar was a little towards my face rather than over shoulders on unrack. My bar path felt so much more consistent and steady. Early reps in the set were waaaaay easier. Later reps perhaps a bit harder, I think because more things that needed to be tight were staying tight, causing some fatigue? Cut the last one short because lockout was starting to get weird. Upon video review I did still let my elbows get a little in front of my wrists.

Video of that last set, 155x6:



After this, I asked stuff in the press thread, watched some Dave Tate videos on bench, and went back at it Wednesday with some more setup cues. The main bad this I noticed in this video was the wrist... extension? Whatever direction rolling back. And my ribs needing some meat on them. Video of 155x8:



Today, top single and backoff doubles, again just trying to drill this setup and form. 205x1:



And then a full setup view from a better angle, and a side view for bar paths:




What do you think doc - is it terminal?

[KOTJ]

Watched the 205 benches and they look pretty good.

Advice for drilling the form in. Do a few days with tempo benching; something like 4-2-0 (4s down, 2s pause, normal speed up).

Squeeze the shit out of the bar the entire time, and do not loose tightness at the bottom/pause.

I'm not using a bunch of cues, because squeezing the shit out of the bar and tempo work has worked on several people I've used it with.

Don't think about breaking the movement into a bunch of parts and cues right now. But yeah, looked pretty good.

[mgil]

Watched the 205 benches and they look pretty good.

Advice for drilling the form in. Do a few days with tempo benching; something like 4-2-0 (4s down, 2s pause, normal speed up).

Squeeze the shit out of the bar the entire time, and do not loose tightness at the bottom/pause.

I'm not using a bunch of cues, because squeezing the shit out of the bar and tempo work has worked on several people I've used it with.

Don't think about breaking the movement into a bunch of parts and cues right now. But yeah, looked pretty good.

The importance of a rock-solid grip cannot be overstated.

I also like to take video and make sure the elbows are behaving.

[cgeorg]

Thanks to both of you. I think the squeezing the shit out of the bar is kind of happening with the new grip angle, I'll be keep concentrating on it. And I'll can throw in some tempo work for my next cycle. Gil, were my elbows behaving in these?

[mgil]

Thanks to both of you. I think the squeezing the shit out of the bar is kind of happening with the new grip angle, I'll be keep concentrating on it. And I'll can throw in some tempo work for my next cycle. Gil, were my elbows behaving in these?

Before the videos were acting up. Elbows looked okay at 25.

How tall are you? Possible some foot placement stuff could help.

[cgeorg]

Fixed embeds with the new media tag. Height is 6' +/- .5"

[mgil]

Fixed embeds with the new media tag. Height is 6' +/- .5"

I think having your knee closer to 90 degrees would help. I went and looked at the 155x8 video. Your elbows get a little loose there. Could be cuing them in or moving in your grip a finger width or so. I’m 6’ with a 36” sleeve and have my ring fingers on the knurl markings, for reference, on comp form.

Disclaimer:

If you’ve tried these things already with no benefit, feel free to ignore.

[augeleven]

Trigger Warning: possible thread hijacking and stupid question here:

What's the zeitgeist here on grip width? I've read about setting it to 90 degree angled elbows at the bottom of the rep, or a ratio to our shoulder width, or just 22-26 inches between index fingers. But then I read about guys putting a finger on the rings for their grip.

[OCG]

Trigger Warning: possible thread hijacking and stupid question here:

What's the zeitgeist here on grip width? I've read about setting it to 90 degree angled elbows at the bottom of the rep, or a ratio to our shoulder width, or just 22-26 inches between index fingers. But then I read about guys putting a finger on the rings for their grip.

Ehh... Depends how your shoulders feel about wider. Mine hate any wider than pinkes on the rings, so I go with that.

[chrisd]

Two things stood out for me.

1) You wrists are quite extended. I don't say that they shouldn't be, but this does mean that the alignment between bar elbow and shoulder will be different than if you had less extended wrists.

2) There is a distinct movement from tucked elbows to flared elbows at the bottom of the movement. It sort of looks as though your elbows are trying to catch up with the bar. That might indicate that you need the narrow elbow position at the bottom for maximum strength. The early flare may be an attempt to deal with what looks to be quite a wide grip.

[KDW]

I'm going to agree with anyone that mentioned grip. Your grip is your main leak.

I'm going to tell you to do something relatively dangerous but it is light and you have safeties...but this will help you to experience how it feels:
1. Load 95 lbs.
2. Take a suicide grip on the bar.
3. Do a couple sets.
4. Feel how efficient it is when you don't have a power leak through the wrist.

Now, go to 135 and take a full thumbs around grip. Try to get that same feeling. Have the bar sit as close to that sweet spot as possible and like you were told above, SQUEEZE.

Other than that, I think your bench form is pretty good. It'll get better as you add more weight to the bar and get more hodge.

[cgeorg]

Re: grip width, I had been at pinkie on the ring, and about a month or 2 ago I started bumping that out a bit (to get more chest involvement?), to right now having the ring in between middle and ring fingers. I can trying bring it back in about a finger's worth.

I had actually thought about trying suicide just to see what the weight of the bar feels like right there. I will give that a go as well.

[DirtyRed]

2) There is a distinct movement from tucked elbows to flared elbows at the bottom of the movement. It sort of looks as though your elbows are trying to catch up with the bar. That might indicate that you need the narrow elbow position at the bottom for maximum strength. The early flare may be an attempt to deal with what looks to be quite a wide grip.

I noticed that too, which is making the bar path really wobbly on the first of the 185 reps. I find it helps to feel like my lats are tight and engaged in controlling the angle of my humerus in order to feel a really solid bench press.

Also, he seems to be gripping the bar more through the proximal palmar crease, rather than the thelnar crease, which might be causing undue wrist extension.

ALSO, he needs to eat moar meat.

[cgeorg]

One of the recent changes was moving my grip from the Thenar/Median crease area to the proximal/distal palmar crease area (at Ryan's prompting). Prior, I'd gripped along the Thenar/Median crease in the way I saw in one of the SS press videos. As below, for both bench and OHP:



I ended up in over-extension with that grip also.

[cgeorg]

Did some tempoish triples at 135 today. The area with the safeties was in use for other stuff so no suicide stuff this time. Tempo stuff is hard. I brought my grip in to ring finger on the ring. Trying to get the bar on my wrists. After reviewing video 1, I tried even harder, and also tried getting my knees closer to 90*. 2nd video does show improved wrist position. It also shows me that really engaging my lats gets my elbows out in front of the bar on the descent. Not sure if I should actually be touching my chest as low as vertical forearms would require with my elbows where they are, or if I am actually tucking them in too much, and they should actually be in the slightly-farther-out position that I flare to on the ascent, which seems to get my forearms actually under the bar?

[cgeorg]

Finally got my e1RM to budge... Bench plans for the current 3 week block:

M: DB Pullover, Pec Deck (L)
W: 4x6@7 1ct pause bench (M)
F: 1@8, 4x6@8 TNG (H)

49 reps a week, plus some accessories to help my tits (which are finally starting to come in, I really wish the SS LP had more benching). I think form is coming along - here's a double from last Saturday, and a single plus some work sets from yesterday:









In that last one, something slipped on the last rep, causing the slower bar speed and extra asymmetry on the way up. In the shower the other day I had a potential realization. Actually it started a bit before that, when pressing on Monday after destroying my grip over the weekend. Trying to get my wrists neutral, on my last few reps my forearms were just screaming. Ok, makes sense. Then, in the shower Thursday I think, it came to me that the "squeeze the shit out of the bar" cue engages those very same forearm muscles that keep your wrist neutral. I think. Right? Is that why it's a cue? Anyway, I'll take any feedback on form or plans for the block (which I fucked up weds by doing 3x8 cgbp instead of 4x6 pause because I forgot).

[KOTJ]

I use a bulldog grip and the bar is basically the same spot as a suicide grip: ulnar crease.

Fuck the pullovers and pec deck.

Just bench more. Really, fuck those other lifts at this time...and probably for a very long time.

Also, am I reading it right that some guy told you to grip the bar higher in your hand?

Fuck that shit too. Really, that's just bad advice.

[Skid]

As far as grip, I grab the bar as low in my hand as possible, ensuring the bar is directly over my wrists. Try the suicide grip as KDW mentioned to get a feel for this.

Agree with KOTJ - screw the pec deck and pullovers. T&G, Pause, and close grip will be everything you need. Do some heavy rowing as well

Also, work on your arch. start with a rolled up towel under your lumbar and work up from there. It puts you in a much better position to bench press heavily.

I am experimenting with a 2x6 under each foot as I find it really helps with leg drive. It's competition legal as well.

[jake]

I'm going to tell you to do something relatively dangerous but it is light and you have safeties...but this will help you to experience how it feels:
1. Load 95 lbs.
2. Take a suicide grip on the bar.
3. Do a couple sets.
4. Feel how efficient it is when you don't have a power leak through the wrist.

Now, go to 135 and take a full thumbs around grip. Try to get that same feeling. Have the bar sit as close to that sweet spot as possible and like you were told above, SQUEEZE.

I've been struggling with grip on the bench as well and this made it click for me immediately - feels much more stable and wrist stiffness is gone after one week. Also, you explained your squat grip before, and that helped me with getting into better position with thumbs around. I'd link to it, but uh, I think it's in hieroglyphics, written on papyrus, or something.

[cgeorg]

I ended up finding this on bulldog grip: https://stronglifts.com/bench-press/wrists/

Here's set 3 from yesterday, better angle to see grip and stuff.



I'd like to leave the chest stuff in because I want the hypertrophy either way, if it isn't negatively affecting things. I could add a bench slot Mondays but I already squat heavy, deadlift and press medium that day (as well as pressing heavy on Weds and seated DB OHP for volume on Fri... and my press hasn't moved in like 2 months... maybe I do need to just redo all of this press programming.) My priority for adding weight to the bar is Press at this point, I don't mind bench moving along more slowly for now. Getting the form cleaned up should get me some technique pounds though, and 49 useful bench reps a week should produce SOME gains right?