Lyle Mcdonald VS Mike Israetel Debate

[KyleSchuant]

I'm not familiar with Melbourne so I might be missing something but why would being Asian make somebody feel self conscious in the gym ?

Ethnic minority, and one which - in Australia - is not associated with strength training, but rather with uni study of accountancy etc.

They shouldn't feel self-conscious, especially in my neighbourhood which has a lot of east Asians (and in fact my children speak Japanese, their mother is teaching them kanji at this very moment) as well as south Asians, but they quite often do - especially in gyms. Just look at this gym also in my neighbourhood, there's one male who looks possibly Asian of some kind, and maybe one woman, and only 2-3 people (all men) possibly over 35. Nobody's significantly fat or skinny. Basically it's whitebread middle class like Crossfit. Then compare with my dusty garage.

I wish it weren't so, but that's how it is. The only way to change it is one gym member at a time, which requires engaged and more-or-less competent trainers.

[CheekiBreekiFitness]

@KyleSchuant that's a nice garage !

Indeed the other gym is less diverse. People like to joke about the stereotype only white upper class people do Crossfit, but I guess there's a bit of truth in the stereotype.

The globogym I train at is very diverse.

[KyleSchuant]

I think that's best. Obviously it's better for individuals if they can be active regardless of their background. But it's better for others, too - it makes the whole gym or sporting experience more enjoyable and productive.

I remember one day when I was still in the globogym training a 30yo guy and a 70yo woman at 6 in the morning, he was squatting 100kg or something and she 60. After they spoke to me separately. The guy said, "I decided, why should I be scared of 100 when an old woman is doing 60?" and the woman said, "I decided, why should I be scared of 60 when he's doing 100?" A diverse group inspires each-other in one way or another.

Plus the conversations they have are fucking ridiculous.

[mbasic]

["people not lifting heavy enough"]

essentially this means that someone could have been using that S10RL for sets of 10 across in their training (and likely would have been given how common rep schemes like 3x10 are in bro routines), which would make the later sets a reasonable RPE/RIR for hypertrophy especially with shorter rest times (again, super common in bro routines to do something like 3x10 bench with 2-3 min rests)

i think stating that "most lifters train too light" based on this is a stretch, and the study design should have specifically asked for a self-estimated 10 rep max

I didn't read the article, but what I see, and posit , is people might be getting that initial load thing semi-right .... that is, somewhere between 8-15 reps to failure. I read that quite a few times in various grocery-store-fitness-magazines or equal-internet-articles: "you have to work hard, and put effort into". And the fitness-writers conside 8-15 reps "heavy".

But a big fuck up I think is not resting enough between sets. If you do 10-15RM stuff up to near failure, good luck repeating that again and again on various exercises through-out the workout with ~1 min or less rests. This is what I see. Resting even 2-3 minutes will seem like an eternity for "these people". They won't do it typically.
Lately, I rest between 1:30 and 2:45 between sets; ONE exercise I do 3:40 rest (4' min start intervals). This is "short" for me is my current 'cycle'.
I've noted the professional personal trainers will have their clients go up to almost twice the set-rate I'm currently^ doing.
Either going twice as often as me, or about 3 sets for every 2 of mine ....or something.

Also, testing a total noob-soccer-mom's/insurance-salesmen's 10RM or whatever .... I don't think that's like your, mine, Nuckol's, young-male-gym-rat-obessed-with-benching-225-for-reps-guy's, etc's 10RM. Those are different 10RMs.
A bet its a lot lower relative load and stress event for the normie-pleebs.
They may not be neurologically efficient to any degree if they've never really pushed their own personal envelope.

I'm not saying they have to do fahives with 10 minute rests. But maybe 8's with at least 3' .... for a long spell first.
Once you are neurologically efficient is creating force, and/or coordinating a movement .... 8-15 reps with shorter rest periods will work.

[dw]

It occurs to me, if we're looking for counter arguments to that study, that at least some people IRL would select a load for sets of 10 and then, upon discovering it's lighter than they thought, either do more reps or increase the weight on subsequent sets.

[quikky]

A lot of folks do not know anything about training, and start going to the gym to "lift some weights" or "do some cardio". After the very initial newb period, progress comes to a halt, and all those gym visits no longer work. It is hard for a lot of people to find the motivation to exercise at all, and even more so after doing it fails to produce meaningful results. For the average person, exercise fails to noticeably reduce body fat, increase muscle mass, or produce other adaptations of any kind. So, why bother? Because someone said "diet and exercise" is good for you? It's simply viewed as a chore with some supposed benefits.

I think Rippetoe is actually correct about this. Specifically, the idea of exercising vs training. If more people started their exercise careers with a training approach, i.e. one designed to produce adaptions continuously and long term, it would be more motivating to keep going. You might still give up and lose motivation, but at least you could see what your time spent was buying you.

[dw]

I also agree with him about the training vs exercising distinction. About the only thing I do.

I wonder sometimes about some of the young females I see in the gym. Some of them do put it a lot of work, and seem to go reasonably hard in terms of RPE although I'm not sure.

The thing I wonder about though is... are they bulking? To my imagination at least that's a much bigger step for a female than a male trainee to make, especially on their own without a coach or someone urging it. If not I guess they may be experiencing some very slow recomp over time.

[KyleSchuant]

For the average person, exercise fails to noticeably reduce body fat, increase muscle mass, or produce other adaptations of any kind. So, why bother?

This bloke posted on LameScroll (you'll have to click through to see the image, can't link directly), and basically lays out that he went from exercising to training, and improved diet, sleep, etc. As you'll see from the image, it's made a big difference - over 11 years.

[CaptainAwesome]

A lot of folks do not know anything about training, and start going to the gym to "lift some weights" or "do some cardio". After the very initial newb period, progress comes to a halt, and all those gym visits no longer work. It is hard for a lot of people to find the motivation to exercise at all, and even more so after doing it fails to produce meaningful results. For the average person, exercise fails to noticeably reduce body fat, increase muscle mass, or produce other adaptations of any kind. So, why bother? Because someone said "diet and exercise" is good for you? It's simply viewed as a chore with some supposed benefits.

I think Rippetoe is actually correct about this. Specifically, the idea of exercising vs training. If more people started their exercise careers with a training approach, i.e. one designed to produce adaptions continuously and long term, it would be more motivating to keep going. You might still give up and lose motivation, but at least you could see what your time spent was buying you.

Weren't we all that guy at some point? I know I was. Every attempt I made to use weight training to improve my body failed within a few weeks. I didn't want to waste the time and effort making a fool of myself. I even tried using Arnold's book, but the specific information for programming and advancement were terrible. I did not realize this until much later on when I began to actually train successfully. I kinda just figured I was a genetic non-responder or something. Seeing the occasional fitness type person say that some people will never improve much with weight training, as well as having my doctor at the time tell me I'd never break 200 pounds of bodyweight and just be very skinny the rest of my life both confirmed this idea in my head.

Having been that guy and turned off to lifting for many years because of that experience is a big part of why I wanted to become a trainer. I wanted to find people like me and help them, because they have the drive and willingness to put in the work, but they have no way of knowing what the hell to do. You can say there's free info that will lead them on the right track out there on the internet, and you'd be right. But how can someone with no guide or frame of reference know good information from bad? Fitness in general is a jungle when it comes to information, and for the most part it is kept that way intentionally by unscrupulous profiteers. They could stumble upon the right path, or they could get lost forever. I'd still love to just find as many of these people out there as I could and help them.

[mbasic]

For the average person, exercise fails to noticeably reduce body fat, increase muscle mass, or produce other adaptations of any kind. So, why bother?

This bloke posted on LameScroll (you'll have to click through to see the image, can't link directly), and basically lays out that he went from exercising to training, and improved diet, sleep, etc. As you'll see from the image, it's made a big difference - over 11 years.

meh, that guy (pic on the left) had a good start or whatever.... he has a good 'base' to start with, by a country mile. Doesn't even have bad moobs/titties or anything. Had shoulder/arm mass.
Picture on the right is proto-typical meathead douche bag..... after 11 years? Seems .... IDK. That's great and all. Lol at sleeve tattoo.

I think the dude on the left could have got into really good (good looking) shape within a year. Trim, cut, more muscular.

[mbasic]

A lot of folks do not know anything about training, and start going to the gym to "lift some weights" or "do some cardio". After the very initial newb period, progress comes to a halt, and all those gym visits no longer work. It is hard for a lot of people to find the motivation to exercise at all, and even more so after doing it fails to produce meaningful results. For the average person, exercise fails to noticeably reduce body fat, increase muscle mass, or produce other adaptations of any kind. So, why bother? Because someone said "diet and exercise" is good for you? It's simply viewed as a chore with some supposed benefits.

I think Rippetoe is actually correct about this. Specifically, the idea of exercising vs training. If more people started their exercise careers with a training approach, i.e. one designed to produce adaptions continuously and long term, it would be more motivating to keep going. You might still give up and lose motivation, but at least you could see what your time spent was buying you.

This is a pretty good summation of the situation. ^

Funny that most of the "personal training" in all the various globo-gyms I've seen going on over the last 15 years is exercise-based stuff....funny in that you are PAYING for a PROFESSIONAL trainer to get you results. I hit the gym around the same time every day. I see the trainers with the same John Doe client every day on those same days (e.g. M, W, F). They never repeat a single exercise that I notice. I can't help but to eavesdrop or take notice: No weights, loads, reps, etc are ever recorded. The trainer seems to load the apparatus by eye (or, miraculously, has the clients' entire load-list for the workout memorized), and just seems to wing the program.

You'd think The Trainer would be somewhat aware of how keeping track of load + reps + sets (ON AT LEAST ONE OR TWO FUCKEN MOVEMENTS!!!) shows some kind of progress being made, and this could be a tool to show the client what they are doing is working .... and thus keep the client forking over the cash to said Trainer....long term.

It seems like such basic Junior High School P.E. class stuff? "How many pushups in a row did you do last quarter? compared to now?".
I cannot believe the average Jane/John Doe can't come to this same realization/thought process in their own, organically, in their own "exercise" ..... which would evolve into "training"....by simply counting some reps/or tracking and progressing load. Seem inutitive to me, and then add in the tinyiest bit of googlefu once sticking points occur .... well.....

human race sux

[DCR]

Lol at sleeve tattoo.

Snorted at the same.

Guy seems like a barrel of laughs to hang out with.

[mbasic]

Lol at sleeve tattoo.

Snorted at the same.

Guy seems like a barrel of laughs to hang out with.

just scrolled thru the rest of those pics in that FB post.

It looks like he might run one of those fake navy-seal-training-camp be-a-real-man-thingies.

googling him, he wrote a book:

Bedros Keuilian is a serial entrepreneur with multi-million dollar generating businesses in franchising, software, digital marketing, and business consulting. He's known as the hidden genius that the entrepreneurs and business experts turn to when they want to quickly scale their business, boost sales and and increase profits.

Bedros is best known for his ability to help his clients quickly establish expert and authority positioning and become the predominant brand in their field. His sales, marketing, business systems are the secret weapon used by thousands of successful businesses, bestselling authors, and entrepreneurs who want to grow their businesses to it's fullest potential without the stress, frustration, or uncertainty that most entrepreneurs experience.
Bibliographic information
QR code for Man Up
Title Man Up: How to Cut the Bullsh!t and Kick @ss in Business (and in Life)

he is a walking meme

[CheekiBreekiFitness]

Guys stop it please, I can't stop laughing.

[DCR]

Was he a hidden genius with “authority positions” before he started training twice a day?

At least he’s doing the public service of reminding men over 30 everywhere not to turn their caps backward.

[dw]

If you're known as a hidden genius...are you really hidden?

*ponders*

[DCR]

Apparently this before / after thing, with the same pic, is a regular feature:

Just in case it wasn’t obvious to all, my man was, is, and always will be rich and successful, and does not benefit from TRT.

In another post he references being buds with Jason Ferruggia because of course he is.

[mbasic]

its a weird disconnect or whatever:

SHOCKING CONFESSION: In both pictures I’m on hormone replacement (TRT). But in the before picture, my diet was crap and training program was hit and miss at best.

Also in the “before” picture I was in the process of building my businesses and made the stupid mistake that most men do when building their business… I neglected my health, fitness and was a poor example of leadership.

In both pictures I looked good in a T-shirt. But in the picture on right I look damn good without anything on.

Like I said, in both pictures I’m on TRT. Been on TRT for a few years now. Interestingly I use less of it now because I train smarter and eat better.

My nutrition is simple…

Its like he trying to discount the entire global fact he's always been on TRT, and the before-after-disparity somehow this validates his current efforts and he should be praised for them? I don't get it.

Anyone can completely derail/self-sabotage their TRT with poor diet and exercise habits.

For all we know, he's probably sitting at 1500 ttl test levels currently.
IOW: TRT++ .... aka "Sports TRT".

[weisgarber]

In another post he references being buds with Jason Ferruggia because of course he is.

Must be where the idea for the tattoos came from.

I particularly like the 5-star review of book where the reader thought the contents were so awesome that he felt the need to stick half a pack of post-its all over the pages, because he apparently doesn't know how to use a Table of Contents.

[DCR]

In another post he references being buds with Jason Ferruggia because of course he is.

Must be where the idea for the tattoos came from.

I particularly like the 5-star review of book where the reader thought the contents were so awesome that he felt the need to stick half a pack of post-its all over the pages, because he apparently doesn't know how to use a Table of Contents.

NO EXCUSES