The Great LP Stall Thread of Shame

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EggMcMuffin
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Re: The Great LP Stall Thread of Shame

#281

Post by EggMcMuffin » Tue Mar 23, 2021 12:36 am

In response to my inability to function properly in any capacity, I decided to pick up weight training circa 2016 and didn't start running EL PEE until I was about a few months in.

I started my first and very protracted run in January of 2017 after reading SS and watching literally almost every single video Rip had put out at the time. I was probably around 155lbs at the time? I started Stronglifts weighing only 140lbs, and didn't really figure out how to eat until later. I progressed somewhat nicely until the flu laid me out for an entire month. I restarted LP in I think March, and took ten pound jumps until I was squatting 185 for 3x5 in like April. I then started doing 5lb jumps until I hit my first 225 squat in late May.

My training data from the Stronglifts app (I used it as a log) showed that I waffled quite a bit inbetween workouts...I had two periods of about a week or two each before that first 225 squat were I deloaded twice. From what I remember, I got both scared and also felt like I was going to hurt myself.

From March 2017 (the start of my first serious run)

21 year old m*n, 160lbs or something like that
SQ: 135
BP: 150
OHP: 80
Deadlift: 175

May 2 2017:
SQ: 225
Bench: 160 (it says that I failed all but the first set, lol)
Deadlift: 220 (got only four reps)
OHP: 100 (4, 5, 5)

From here on I think there was a series of deloads and stuff until i began squatting 225 again in July for some reason. I think I'd managed to get to 175 at this point. I was reading tons of 70's Big and getting really goddamn good at eating inhuman amounts of food.

I then go from squatting 225 to 240 towards the end of July, where I then seem to deload that squar all the way to 185 and work back up. This happens twice. If I remember correctly, this was the start of my long, friendly relationship with elbow aids. All my other lifts also went down, as I could not bench or deadlift with my arms like that.

This takes me to 18 Sep 2017:

SQ: 255 0, 0, 0
OHP: 107.8 (failed first set completely, 4, 5)
DL: scheduled for 175, but skipped, probably due to elbow aids

I think after this session I decided I needed help, and went to the Librul Soiboys at (then) SS affliate Bay Strength in Oakland, California, Estados Unidos De America y consigue ayuda para mi elbow aids. Jeremy Tully fixed my shit by like the second week of October, and I hit my first 270lb squat at the end of October, but only for three reps. I weighed in at like 205lbs. I remember this because I was still hilariously awkward (like, even worse than I am now) and straight up was like, "Jeremy, I'm a fatass at 205" and he was like, "This is a good weight for you" which to be honest is probably true from a strength standpoint.

I think I probably should have stopped at this point and moved on, but I'm a dumbass.

Hit another deload, and then in 9 Nov 2017

SQ: 275 3x5
OHP: 110 3x5
DL: 215
BP: 167

I then went on a long series of deloads and work back uppings that culminated in the final workout in 2 April 2018

22 year old male, 210lbs, all in freedom units
SQ: 290 3x5
BP: 180 3x5
OHP: 117.5 3x5
DL: 285

I swear to god, had this entire long run not been a series of failures it would have been inspiring. Imagine been some dweeb socially awkward nerd never having touched a barbell, having gotten beat up (sometimes literally) going from barely able to squat his own bodyweight to squatting 290 for 3 BONE ON BONE GRINDING sets at an intensity that worried even the casual gym goers around me. By the time I was squatting 290 my eyes were constantly blood red from the burst capillaries. It was ridiculous. I felt like I was dying. My arms hurt like crazy, my knee was fucked up, and my doctor was like "holy shit dude you got fat LMAO"

A combination of @mouse and @Austin gently bullying me into doing something else finally got through my dense ass osmium ass skull and I went and tested 1RM's and managed a single at 320lbs for the squat and I think a 205 bench.


To be honest, I think SS is pretty terrible. I learned a lot from the "Don't Be A Pussy" rhetoric and I genuinely found doing some of those really hard sets instructive on a spiritual level and I came to many profound realizations, and I cried more than once. I cried in the rain in November outside the McDonalds because I wanted a Big Mac after the gym but it was 10PM and the lobby was closed. I really cried. BUT! I feel like I probably would have accomplished the same thing easier and with less injuries with something more friendly, and I didn't really get going until I saw an SSC. My deadlift was artifically low because I didn't get enough volume in to practice the movement, and squatting THAT much was honestly pretty awful.

I don't know.
Last edited by EggMcMuffin on Wed Mar 24, 2021 3:39 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: The Great LP Stall Thread of Shame

#282

Post by jwilson625 » Tue Mar 23, 2021 5:20 am

SpoilerShow
LoudMuffin wrote: Tue Mar 23, 2021 12:36 am In response to my inability to function properly in any capacity, I decided to pick up weight training circa 2016 and didn't start running EL PEE until I was about a few months in.

I started my first and very protracted run in January of 2017 after reading SS and watching literally almost every single video Rip had put out at the time. I was probably around 155lbs at the time? I started Stronglifts weighing only 140lbs, and didn't really figure out how to eat until later. I progressed somewhat nicely until the flu laid me out for an entire month. I restarted LP in I think March, and took ten pound jumps until I was squatting 185 for 3x5 in like April. I then started doing 5lb jumps until I hit my first 225 squat in late May.

My training data from the Stronglifts app (I used it as a log) showed that I waffled quite a bit inbetween workouts...I had two periods of about a week or two each before that first 225 squat were I deloaded twice. From what I remember, I got both scared and also felt like I was going to hurt myself.

From March 2017 (the start of my first serious run)

21 year old m*n, 160lbs or something like that
SQ: 135
BP: 150
OHP: 80
Deadlift: 175

May 2 2017:
SQ: 225
Bench: 160 (it says that I failed all but the first set, lol)
Deadlift: 220 (got only four reps)
OHP: 100 (4, 5, 5)

From here on I think there was a series of deloads and stuff until i began squatting 225 again in July for some reason. I think I'd managed to get to 175 at this point. I was reading tons of 70's Big and getting really goddamn good at eating inhuman amounts of food.

I then go from squatting 225 to 240 towards the end of July, where I then seem to deload that squar all the way to 185 and work back up. This happens twice. If I remember correctly, this was the start of my long, friendly relationship with elbow aids. All my other lifts also went down, as I could not bench or deadlift with my arms like that.

This takes me to 18 Sep 2017:

SQ: 255 0, 0, 0
OHP: 107.8 (failed first set completely, 4, 5)
DL: scheduled for 175, but skipped, probably due to elbow aids

I think after this session I decided I needed help, and went to the Librul Soiboys at (then) SS affliate Bay Strength in Oakland, California, Estados Unidos De America y consigue ayuda para mi elbow aids. Jeremy Tully fixed my shit by like the second week of October, and I hit my first 270lb squat at the end of October, but only for three reps. I weighed in at like 205lbs. I remember this because I was still hilariously awkward (like, even worse than I am now) and straight up was like, "Jeremy, I'm a fatass at 205" and he was like, "This is a good weight for you" which to be honest is probably true from a strength standpoint.

I think I probably should have stopped at this point and moved on, but I'm a dumbass.

Hit another deload, and then in 9 Nov 2017

SQ: 275 3x5
OHP: 110 3x5
DL: 215
BP: 167

I then went on a long series of deloads and work back uppings that culminated in the final workout in 2 April 2018

22 year old male, 210lbs, all in freedom units
SQ: 290 3x5
BP: 180 3x5
OHP: 117.5 3x5
DL: 285

I swear to god, had this entire long run not been a series of failures it would have been inspiring. Imagine been some dweeb socially awkward nerd never having touched a barbell, having gotten beat up (sometimes literally) going from barely able to squat his own bodyweight to squatting 290 for 3 BONE ON BONE GRINDING sets at an intensity that worried even the casual gym goers around me. By the time I was squatting 290 my eyes were constantly blood red from the burst capillaries. It was ridiculous. I felt like I was dying. My arms hurt like crazy, my knee was fucked up, and my doctor was like "holy shit dude you got fat LMAO"

A combination of @mouse and @Austin gently bullying me into doing something else finally got through my dense ass osmium ass skull and I went and tested 1RM's and managed a single at 320lbs for the squat and I think a 205 bench.


To be honest, I think SS is pretty terrible. I learned a lot from the "Don't Be A Pussy" rhetoric and I genuinely found doing some of those really hard sets instructive on a spiritual level and I came to many profound realizations, and I cried more than once. I cried in the rain in November outside the McDonalds because I wanted a Big Mac after the gym but it was 10PM and the lobby was closed. I really cried. BUT! I feel like I probably would have accomplished the same thing easier and with less injuries with something more friendly, and I didn't really get going until I saw an SSC. My deadlift was artifically low because I didn't get enough volume in to practice the movement, and squatting THAT much was honestly pretty awful.

I don't know.

This all checks out. My biggest takeaways from SS were quite honestly a) how to eat like (and become) a fatass, and b) how to make excuses to do the absolute least amount of volume possible. I've mostly gotten over (a) but (b) is a constant struggle.

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Re: The Great LP Stall Thread of Shame

#283

Post by KyleSchuant » Tue Mar 30, 2021 10:02 pm

Thanks, LoudMuffin. What's your height?

Because it was Mar-Nov in the same year I counted it as one long run with previous training experience. Like if you'd added a pound a time to your squat or something.

Added 50lbs bodyweight! We've had 101 entries in the male column so far, and at a scan through 90 out of 101 gained weight. The median added is 24lb - and that includes those 11 who stayed the same or dropped, or we didn't have a starting weight for them. So much for the idea that guys aren't willing to gain weight to get stronger. About 90% of the sample did so.

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Re: The Great LP Stall Thread of Shame

#284

Post by clh » Sat Apr 17, 2021 5:22 pm

Interesting read, thanks to all who worked on this.

I started around Jul '18: after looking through the Rock Climber's Training Manual and Overcoming Gravity, they both mentioned the blue book as a good resource, so I went there, having never touched a barbell before. Not really any prior training, besides the RR from reddit/bwf inconsistently for about a year. Starting with the empty bar, I made a few big jumps on squat and deadlift then stuck to the program pretty closely. Went to deadlift every fourth workout probably way too soon. Tried to keep the squat going after grinding through 275 with the light day. Power cleans made me feel like I was going to black out so I gave up on them at 135. Highest sets of 5 were:
Squat: 325
Bench: 172.5
Deadlift: 330
Press: 125
Elbows were killing me from squatting, really affected my bench. Probably gained a bit too much weight, I'd say I went from ~190 - ~230 (74").

Epilogue:
Faffed about with some bastardization of PPST, then found Nuckol's 28 free programs. Made a bit of progress there, but I think I'd like doing something a little more low-intensity. Started average to savage 2, but couldn't hack the sets of 10 - 12 on squats (think I carried in some fatigue, or just hated squatting at that point). Decided to branch out and give swimming an honest try, I really liked the 0 - 1600 program. Picked up a kettlebell and decided to work my way up to 'simple' in pavel's simple to sinister program. Liked that, but it's pretty minimal, so I'm having another go at an LP (following the StrongLifts program this time) and am going to avoid grinding so hard at the end, probably introducing lots of back-off sets or something to transition in to more sustainable long-term programming (TBD). Cheers

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Re: The Great LP Stall Thread of Shame

#285

Post by KyleSchuant » Sun Apr 18, 2021 12:32 am

Thanks, CLH. Sorry to hear about the elbow AIDS, it's a pretty common result of low-bar back squats, which I assume are the variation you did.

I think varying activities is good for someone just training for fun and health, MGil's got another thread about that right now.

How old were you at the time?

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Re: The Great LP Stall Thread of Shame

#286

Post by clh » Sun Apr 18, 2021 9:34 am

Yup, trying hbbs this time around--surprised by how heavy 135 felt! I'm fine with being the tortoise, though (or so I try to tell myself).

I'll look for that thread, sounds as affirming as this one haha.

2018 was probably the last time I'll ever be n^n years old

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Re: The Great LP Stall Thread of Shame

#287

Post by KyleSchuant » Mon Apr 19, 2021 5:19 am

1, 4, 27 or 256. Unless you're very precious or Methuselah, I'll put you down for 27.

It's all squats, mate. You'll like Alan Thrall's take on the Fahve Stages of Being a Starting Strength Coach - it applies to lifters, too.

One of the benefits of the high-bar squat for me as a trainer is that I don't have to slap people on the sacrum anymore.

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Re: The Great LP Stall Thread of Shame

#288

Post by mgil » Mon Apr 19, 2021 6:22 am

KyleSchuant wrote: Mon Apr 19, 2021 5:19 amOne of the benefits of the high-bar squat for me as a trainer is that I don't have to slap people on the sacrum anymore.
There’s a rather large implication here.

By switching over to a more vertical squat, it leaves a lot more room under the lower back fatigue cap for pulling and other hip hinge work.

In general, I think people would get a better stimulus from pulls than squats. Since SS is supposed to be a general fitness program, it would make more sense, to me, to have people focus on more pulling volume and leave squats as more of an accessory lift (kinda like it is in WL programming).

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Re: The Great LP Stall Thread of Shame

#289

Post by KyleSchuant » Mon Apr 19, 2021 3:26 pm

Well, more seriously: I'd stopped that cue before then anyway. Most people don't need to be taught hip drive, and if you try then you get knee slide and the good morning squat which you then you have to correct. Rather than giving them one cue which you then have to correct with another, why not just leave them to it and see how they go? And usually they're alright.

I don't know that the variation of emphasis makes much difference to the novice. It's the grind, the relentless pushing hard, that fatigues their lower back- and gives them elbow aids, and patellar tendinopathy, and... the grind is when things turn sloppy, and when the body doesn't have enough resources to recover properly between sessions, and so the damage accumulates and they get the overuse injuries.

If you had them, say, low-bar back squat - but heavy squats and light deadlifts or cleans or rows or chinups etc one day, and light squats and heavy deadlifts the other - that'd be a different thing. That was one of the first variations I tried with people from about a month in. There was less drama. Then it's starting to look more like Starr's 5x5.

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Re: The Great LP Stall Thread of Shame

#290

Post by clh » Wed Apr 21, 2021 9:37 am

With your comments in mind, I think I'll LP front squats on deadlift days, and increase deadlift volume a bit.
Although I think I retained a lot more pulling strength, possibly because of all the kettlebell swings?

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Re: The Great LP Stall Thread of Shame

#291

Post by mgil » Wed Apr 21, 2021 10:32 am

clh wrote: Wed Apr 21, 2021 9:37 am With your comments in mind, I think I'll LP front squats on deadlift days, and increase deadlift volume a bit.
Although I think I retained a lot more pulling strength, possibly because of all the kettlebell swings?
KB swings are a good exercise to keep the hip hinge strong for sure

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Re: The Great LP Stall Thread of Shame

#292

Post by hector » Wed Apr 21, 2021 6:07 pm

mgil wrote: Mon Apr 19, 2021 6:22 am
In general, I think people would get a better stimulus from pulls than squats. Since SS is supposed to be a general fitness program, it would make more sense, to me, to have people focus on more pulling volume and leave squats as more of an accessory lift (kinda like it is in WL programming).
This is fascinating. I think my experience is in synch with this.
What in your opinion makes pulls so much better than squats?

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Re: The Great LP Stall Thread of Shame

#293

Post by mgil » Wed Apr 21, 2021 6:24 pm

hector wrote: Wed Apr 21, 2021 6:07 pm
mgil wrote: Mon Apr 19, 2021 6:22 am
In general, I think people would get a better stimulus from pulls than squats. Since SS is supposed to be a general fitness program, it would make more sense, to me, to have people focus on more pulling volume and leave squats as more of an accessory lift (kinda like it is in WL programming).
This is fascinating. I think my experience is in synch with this.
What in your opinion makes pulls so much better than squats?
Total musculature involved in a deadlift is almost everything in the body by either concentric or isometric action. Squats are close, but not as good.

You also don’t need a rack and it’s probably a safer exercise at the limit.

Also, I did 124 deadlift reps in the last two weeks over four sessions. That’s almost 8 weeks of NLP pulling. I feel fine considering all the shit that’s already wrong.

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Re: The Great LP Stall Thread of Shame

#294

Post by DCR » Wed Apr 21, 2021 8:04 pm

mgil wrote: Wed Apr 21, 2021 6:24 pm
hector wrote: Wed Apr 21, 2021 6:07 pm
mgil wrote: Mon Apr 19, 2021 6:22 am
In general, I think people would get a better stimulus from pulls than squats. Since SS is supposed to be a general fitness program, it would make more sense, to me, to have people focus on more pulling volume and leave squats as more of an accessory lift (kinda like it is in WL programming).
This is fascinating. I think my experience is in synch with this.
What in your opinion makes pulls so much better than squats?
Total musculature involved in a deadlift is almost everything in the body by either concentric or isometric action. Squats are close, but not as good.

You also don’t need a rack and it’s probably a safer exercise at the limit.

Also, I did 124 deadlift reps in the last two weeks over four sessions. That’s almost 8 weeks of NLP pulling. I feel fine considering all the shit that’s already wrong.
Deficit deadlifts better yet?

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Re: The Great LP Stall Thread of Shame

#295

Post by Philbert » Wed Apr 21, 2021 8:44 pm

DCR wrote: Wed Apr 21, 2021 8:04 pm
mgil wrote: Wed Apr 21, 2021 6:24 pm
hector wrote: Wed Apr 21, 2021 6:07 pm
mgil wrote: Mon Apr 19, 2021 6:22 am
In general, I think people would get a better stimulus from pulls than squats. Since SS is supposed to be a general fitness program, it would make more sense, to me, to have people focus on more pulling volume and leave squats as more of an accessory lift (kinda like it is in WL programming).
This is fascinating. I think my experience is in synch with this.
What in your opinion makes pulls so much better than squats?
Total musculature involved in a deadlift is almost everything in the body by either concentric or isometric action. Squats are close, but not as good.

You also don’t need a rack and it’s probably a safer exercise at the limit.

Also, I did 124 deadlift reps in the last two weeks over four sessions. That’s almost 8 weeks of NLP pulling. I feel fine considering all the shit that’s already wrong.
Deficit deadlifts better yet?
Snatch grip deadlifts are the best lift.

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Re: The Great LP Stall Thread of Shame

#296

Post by hector » Wed Apr 21, 2021 9:00 pm

mgil wrote: Wed Apr 21, 2021 6:24 pm
hector wrote: Wed Apr 21, 2021 6:07 pm
mgil wrote: Mon Apr 19, 2021 6:22 am
In general, I think people would get a better stimulus from pulls than squats. Since SS is supposed to be a general fitness program, it would make more sense, to me, to have people focus on more pulling volume and leave squats as more of an accessory lift (kinda like it is in WL programming).
This is fascinating. I think my experience is in synch with this.
What in your opinion makes pulls so much better than squats?
Total musculature involved in a deadlift is almost everything in the body by either concentric or isometric action. Squats are close, but not as good.

You also don’t need a rack and it’s probably a safer exercise at the limit.

Also, I did 124 deadlift reps in the last two weeks over four sessions. That’s almost 8 weeks of NLP pulling. I feel fine considering all the shit that’s already wrong.
Thank you!

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Re: The Great LP Stall Thread of Shame

#297

Post by cgeorg » Wed Apr 21, 2021 9:57 pm

Philbert wrote: Wed Apr 21, 2021 8:44 pm
DCR wrote: Wed Apr 21, 2021 8:04 pm
mgil wrote: Wed Apr 21, 2021 6:24 pm
hector wrote: Wed Apr 21, 2021 6:07 pm
mgil wrote: Mon Apr 19, 2021 6:22 am
In general, I think people would get a better stimulus from pulls than squats. Since SS is supposed to be a general fitness program, it would make more sense, to me, to have people focus on more pulling volume and leave squats as more of an accessory lift (kinda like it is in WL programming).
This is fascinating. I think my experience is in synch with this.
What in your opinion makes pulls so much better than squats?
Total musculature involved in a deadlift is almost everything in the body by either concentric or isometric action. Squats are close, but not as good.

You also don’t need a rack and it’s probably a safer exercise at the limit.

Also, I did 124 deadlift reps in the last two weeks over four sessions. That’s almost 8 weeks of NLP pulling. I feel fine considering all the shit that’s already wrong.
Deficit deadlifts better yet?
Snatch grip deadlifts are the best lift.
Deficit snatch RDLs.

I'm not sure if I'm joking or not. I don't think so though.

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Re: The Great LP Stall Thread of Shame

#298

Post by mouse » Thu Apr 22, 2021 2:27 am

I am clearly biased... but I am also in camp Deadlift > Squat for what it's worth...

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Re: The Great LP Stall Thread of Shame

#299

Post by BenM » Thu Apr 22, 2021 2:33 am

Depends what you mean by 'stimulus'. Strength? Hypertrophy? Hypertrophy of what?

Deadlifts are all hamstring and back for me. If I want to grow my quads they're not helping much. For that I've gotta do something else. Like squat.

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Re: The Great LP Stall Thread of Shame

#300

Post by slowmotion » Thu Apr 22, 2021 2:51 am

I can't imagine having to choose between squats or deadlifts. I don't think one is "better" than the other, rather I think they complement each other.

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