Cardio options?

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BigE
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Cardio options?

#1

Post by BigE » Fri Apr 26, 2019 11:36 am

I need to cardio, but really don’t like it. I need something indoors, so I can keep an eye on the kids, while getting prettier.

My wife has a Peloton. Fifteen years ago, I used to love cycling. Rode all over Europe, and then got lost for a year in Central America. But I hate stationary bikes, even her fancy one. I would rather have my sack waxed, than spend 30 minutes on it.

We sold off our clothes drying rack, aka treadmill, years ago. Couldn’t stand running in place. She wants the Peloton Tread, but it isn’t happening.

I’ve convinced myself to buy a concept 2. I’ve never rowed, unless you count dinghies; and never sat on a stationary one. Those Amazon reviews, though... Man, take my money.

Am I nuts? Any other indoor equipment options I should consider?

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Re: Cardio options?

#2

Post by rjharris » Fri Apr 26, 2019 11:51 am

BigE wrote: Fri Apr 26, 2019 11:36 am I’ve convinced myself to buy a concept 2. I’ve never rowed, unless you count dinghies; and never sat on a stationary one. Those Amazon reviews, though... Man, take my money.

Am I nuts? Any other indoor equipment options I should consider?
I bought a Concept 2 a couple months ago. I'm really bad at it still (mostly because I don't do it enough...) but it definitely *feels* like it's doing something when I get on it and row for a while. I mostly do steady state stuff with it, but once I'm convinced I have form down well enough, I will start doing intervals with it. I can't speak for other equipment.

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Re: Cardio options?

#3

Post by Ragholmes » Fri Apr 26, 2019 11:56 am

You're going to buy the rower anyway, but I'll play.
I agree with you on the whole treadmill, elliptical, stationary bike thing. I hate them with a passion, I've never had my sack waxed though so....
My brother who also hates this stuff recently got a bowflex max trainer and loves it, says it puts his heartrate through the roof as soon as he gets on it. Their marketing brags about shorter workouts because of that.
There is a version by ProForm at about half the price of the bowflex. ProForm Cardio HIIT Elliptical Trainer.
But we all know that you're getting yourself that rower.

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Re: Cardio options?

#4

Post by Allentown » Fri Apr 26, 2019 12:09 pm

Rower or Airdyne bike. Bikes are cheaper, new and used. I'd probably rather have a rower for LISS but the bike is great for HIIT. Since I was getting a treadmill either way I went cheap and got the bike. Don't regret.

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Re: Cardio options?

#5

Post by mbasic » Fri Apr 26, 2019 12:29 pm

BigE wrote: Fri Apr 26, 2019 11:36 am We sold off our clothes drying rack, aka treadmill, years ago. Couldn’t stand running in place.
Yeah, I moved mine into the garage (to be stored).

But hate to say it, but doing a fast walk on a treadmill at max incline is pretty good LISS...and is very "practical".
I can do that while I watch a basketball game on TV, and multitask...watch kids, etc.

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Re: Cardio options?

#6

Post by Jay870 » Fri Apr 26, 2019 1:41 pm

Got a C2 in late November and have ~400K meters on it. Very glad I got it. If you want HIIT then crank the damper up and give it hell. If you want LISS then crank the damper down and go at a comfortable pace. The PM5 <-> ErgData <-> C2 Log Book integration is very cool if "nerd factor" plays into your decision at all. Also use a Wahoo Tickr-X heart rate monitor with mine on @iamsmu 's recommendation and its great.

We've also had a light commercial grade elliptical for about 10 years. Cumulatively it has been used quite a bit, but it has been pretty off and on over the years. Kind of impossible to go hard on it so it is really only good for LISS. I still use it a few times a month when my lower back / elbows / shoulders are feeling too gassed to pull on the rower.

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Re: Cardio options?

#7

Post by augeleven » Fri Apr 26, 2019 5:06 pm

The most important indoor cardio equipment is a tv and a never ending stream of action movies.
(ETA: to be clear, you watch these while rowing, biking, running, whatever. Don't just watch the movies)
I miss outdoor cardio, but my kids are randomly freaking out in the middle of the night (spring allergies and 3 year molars)
Also googling Joel Jamison’s roadwork 2.0 might give you some ideas too
Last edited by augeleven on Fri Apr 26, 2019 6:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Cardio options?

#8

Post by asdf » Fri Apr 26, 2019 5:31 pm

Sounds like you're looking for something monostructural, but have you considered bodyweight circuits? Pick your favorite movements and then devise a work/rest scheme or pace that gives you the sort of training you want. If you're interested, let me know and I'll write more.

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Re: Cardio options?

#9

Post by augeleven » Fri Apr 26, 2019 6:50 pm

hey @asdf, what are your thoughts on how close to failure you should be on bodyweight exercises?
Jameison mentions picking an exercise you could do for 5 minutes (!) for roadwork 2.0, but it would intuitively seem like you would want to stay far away from failure in order to prolong the session

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Re: Cardio options?

#10

Post by asdf » Fri Apr 26, 2019 8:08 pm

@augeleven
If the goal is to keep moving or at least to stay on a set work/rest ratio, then yeah, probably best to stay away from failure.

Consider chin-ups or pull-ups. If you want to do them for 30 minutes, you'll need to find a work/rest ratio and rep scheme that works. I've alternated 3's and 2's every 30 seconds for an hour. But might only last 30 minutes doing 5 at the start of every minute.

Unless you're doing something total-body like burpees, I think it's best to use circuits. For example, 5 chin-ups, 10 push-ups, 15 squats (Crossfit's "Cindy" or "Chelsea"). By the time you come back to the chin-ups, you're relatively fresh. Lots of people can move through this doing one full circuit per minute for 20 or 30 minutes. And these sorts of circuits can be scaled easily. If 5 chin-ups at the top of every minute will crush you, just do 3. Or do the the circuit on the 1:30.

With something like burpees, you can either slow the pace of each individual rep or just do a certain number at the start of each minute and then rest the remainder of the minute. Or do X number every 1:30 or whatever.

I often do "GI Jane" (100 burpee/chin-ups) that way. I do 5 reps at the start of each minute, which takes me about 30 seconds. I then get 30 seconds of rest before I go again. So I finish the workout in about 20 minutes. That might sound leisurely, and I'm sure it is for some people, but not me. By halfway through, I'm breathing pretty heavy even when resting. 100 burpees and 100 chin-ups in less than 20 minutes is a pretty efficient workout!

Does any of that help?

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Re: Cardio options?

#11

Post by dcw » Fri Apr 26, 2019 8:23 pm

Allentown wrote: Fri Apr 26, 2019 12:09 pm Rower or Airdyne bike. Bikes are cheaper, new and used. I'd probably rather have a rower for LISS but the bike is great for HIIT. Since I was getting a treadmill either way I went cheap and got the bike. Don't regret.
I’ll second the Airdyne. I’m not a fan of a traditional stationary bike, but I love my assault bike. LISS and HIIT. The one plus, for me, over rowing is that I don’t have to completely stop moving to change songs on my phone.

I’m also a huge fan of a good old fashioned jump rope, if you have the overhead clearance.

Circuits would work well, too.

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Re: Cardio options?

#12

Post by asdf » Fri Apr 26, 2019 8:31 pm

augeleven wrote: Fri Apr 26, 2019 6:50 pm Jameison mentions picking an exercise you could do for 5 minutes (!) for roadwork 2.0...
Okay, I read the Jamieson piece. My guess is that when he lists "Bodyweight Calisthenics" as being a component of a larger Roadwork 2.0 circuit, he's actually talking about a circuit of bodyweight movements. So, a circuit within a circuit. Like, jumping rope for 10 minutes, then doing 10 rounds of Cindy, then jumping rope for 10 minutes.

There are few bodyweight exercises that I could do for five minutes non-stop (not counting walking or running).

Step-ups, certainly. I've done those for an hour with an 80# pack. Burpees, box-jumps, and maybe lunges, if I slowed the movement down or took a breath or two at the top of each rep. I used to regularly do 10-minutes of 80# sandbag get-ups, but that's not a bodyweight movement. I've done "Tabata" squats: 8 rounds of 20 seconds on, 10 seconds rest, which is four minutes... but there are rest intervals.

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Re: Cardio options?

#13

Post by iamsmu » Sat Apr 27, 2019 7:46 am

asdf wrote: Fri Apr 26, 2019 8:08 pm
I often do "GI Jane" (100 burpee/chin-ups) that way. I do 5 reps at the start of each minute, which takes me about 30 seconds. I then get 30 seconds of rest before I go again. So I finish the workout in about 20 minutes. That might sound leisurely, and I'm sure it is for some people, but not me. By halfway through, I'm breathing pretty heavy even when resting. 100 burpees and 100 chin-ups in less than 20 minutes is a pretty efficient workout!
I vote for GI Jane too. It's an excellent, efficient workout. I did one last week. It crushed me. It's tempting to do too many in the first couple of minutes. Resist this. Burpee pull ups don't stay easy for long. Arrogance in this workout will be punished.

If you haven't been doing much conditioning, don't go for the full 100 the first time. That's just not going to happen. Hell, 25 might be too many. Add more each time. Then when you hit 100, you can decide if you want to do more per minute. The difficulty goes up real fast though.

I was going to do another today, but I strained something in my left forearm . . .

As, asdf mentioned, Cindy or the heart of a partitioned Murph is also good. All you need is a pull up bar. It's much less stressful than burpees! Jumping into Burpee Pull Ups might be a little too much for a lot of people.

Without a pull up bar, you can still do burpees. I recall asdf describing something like Cindy a while back that had situps in it.

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Re: Cardio options?

#14

Post by augeleven » Sat Apr 27, 2019 11:44 am

How high do you need to have the pull-up bar for burpee pullups to make it worth it? Is it worth it to try if all of my pull-up options involve me having to bend the knees to do the reps?

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Re: Cardio options?

#15

Post by iamsmu » Sat Apr 27, 2019 11:54 am

augeleven wrote: Sat Apr 27, 2019 11:44 am How high do you need to have the pull-up bar for burpee pullups to make it worth it? Is it worth it to try if all of my pull-up options involve me having to bend the knees to do the reps?
The xfit sites I've seen have said that it should be a foot up. But it's still hard if it's at the end of your reach (which is all I have access too). It forces you to jump and do at least the upper half of a pull up. I'm not sure it would work much lower. Might as well just to a burpee and jump to touch the ceiling on each rep.

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Re: Cardio options?

#16

Post by asdf » Sat Apr 27, 2019 1:09 pm

augeleven wrote: Sat Apr 27, 2019 11:44 am How high do you need to have the pull-up bar for burpee pullups to make it worth it? Is it worth it to try if all of my pull-up options involve me having to bend the knees to do the reps?
Yes, still worth it in my opinion.

In my garage gym, I can get a full grip on the chin-up bar just by standing on my toes. I still do GI Jane there, no problem. It's just different. A burpee followed by a dead-hang chin-up rather than a jumping pull-up.

When I want to add jumps to my burpees, I either do burpee box-jumps or burpee lateral-jumps over a barbell set at bumper-plate height.

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Re: Cardio options?

#17

Post by augeleven » Sat Apr 27, 2019 2:26 pm

I’m afraid to do it in my rack as parts of the pull-up bar touch the joists, and my doorway bar is on a step up. The local park has a bar in the playground where I run at night, but that is actually the lowest. Maybe I will throw in some sets after the run

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Re: Cardio options?

#18

Post by asdf » Sat Apr 27, 2019 4:32 pm

iamsmu wrote: Sat Apr 27, 2019 7:46 am I recall asdf describing something like Cindy a while back that had situps in it.
Once a week, I do this circuit that I got from Rob Shaul a decade ago:

2, 4, 6, 8, 10, 8, 6, 4, 2
Pull-ups (strict, not kipping)
Ring Dips or regular dips + 15#
Sit-ups x2

So...
2 strict pull-ups, 2 dips, 4 sit-ups
4 strict pull-ups, 4 dips, 8 sit-ups
6, 6, 12
8, 8, 16
10, 10, 20
then back down...

And then do the whole up/down ladder again. That gives you 100 chin-ups, 100 dips, and 200 sit-ups.

Modify as necessary. Cut the chin reps in half, do unweighted dips, cut the sit-ups reps in half, just do the ladder once through, etc.

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Re: Cardio options?

#19

Post by asdf » Sat Apr 27, 2019 4:37 pm

augeleven wrote: Sat Apr 27, 2019 2:26 pm I’m afraid to do it in my rack as parts of the pull-up bar touch the joists, and my doorway bar is on a step up. The local park has a bar in the playground where I run at night, but that is actually the lowest. Maybe I will throw in some sets after the run
When my wife sprained her ankle and thus couldn't jump to the bar, she just alternated between 5 burpees (with no jump) and 5 chin-ups. That's actually harder, I think.

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Re: Cardio options?

#20

Post by iamsmu » Sat Apr 27, 2019 5:36 pm

asdf wrote: Sat Apr 27, 2019 4:32 pm

And then do the whole up/down ladder again. That gives you 100 chin-ups, 100 dips, and 200 sit-ups.

Modify as necessary. Cut the chin reps in half, do unweighted dips, cut the sit-ups reps in half, just do the ladder once through, etc.
Cool thanks. You have good ideas. I wish you had a log here. . . .

I'll probably give this a shot very soon, though the dips will interfere with bench, so I have to time it right.

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