Low-carb diets and ketosis

[Wilhelm]

Agreed on Volek and Phinney, @JFick
Reading their book is what i usually reccomend to people.
https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/114 ... ate-living

[MPhelps]

@MPhelps



Dr Phinney has great info on low carb diets.

Supplementing salt is essential. Canola oil is probably the least offensive of seed oils but should be avoided when possible. Calories are still calories. You need to eat enough to maintain your weight if that's your goal.

Have you looked into elimination diets? This would help you isolate the sources of your issues. Simplest one is to eat only beef, salt, and water for a couple weeks and then add foods one at a time to see how your body reacts to them.

Thanks for the link. I've got his name near the top for research. Been reading a lot of Mark's daily apple thus week. I realize it's pretty outdated at this point, but it's still coming up high in Google searches.

I've started an elimination diet as of yesterday. Pot roast I cook myself in a crock pot, salt, a 1/2 cup of sweet potato, carrots and blue, black, rasp and straw berries. Some olive oil added in too. No issues with the random itching so far, so I definitely think it's along the lines of dairy, nightshades or maybe soaps that I was using.

I hiked a bit yesterday before the storm from hell, and trick or treated in the rain for an hour last night on barely any carbs for the day. I felt like crap and really achy while trick or treating. Had some sweet potato with dinner and felt better almost immediately. I'm going to keep carbs between about 75-125g depending on activity. Considering I was eating around 400-500g carbs before last week, my current number is super low.

I'm trying not to count calories, and I'm not trying to cut. I'm concerned that I'm not getting enough calories from beef, and veggies. Do you guys get most of your calories from oil consumption? I'm eating all of the fat on my meats, but I'm not sure if I should add a lot more from oil. I'm probably around 1700 cals right now. I was around 2500 eating higher carb. I'm almost leaning towards calories don't actually matter as long as you meet your micronutrients and protein/carb amounts.

[JFick]

@MPhelps

If you recently changed soaps or laundry detergent this can definitely be a source of skin issues.

Many people do have issues with dairy and nightshades. The quality of dairy is a big issues in the US. I feel this contributes to it.

I believe @Wilhelm has touched on it elsewhere. There seems to be a no-man's-land when it comes to carb consumption. Like going low carb but not keto level low leaves you tired and hungry all the time. Personally if I eat between 80 to like 150 g in a day I feel like crap and want to eat all the time. But if I keep it below that range my appetite vanishes and I feel much better. Definitely check out the book Wilhelm linked above.

Days I need calories my go to is a mixture of coconut oil, peanut butter, and a few drops of honey. Fucking amazing. Unfortunately as far as my extra fat sources go, they mainly come from heavy cream added to my whey / water shakes and then cooking things in grass fed butter. But the majority of my calories comes from the fat of the animal I'm eating. If you need extra fat look for olive oil on your veggies and cook in rendered animal fats like lard, tallow, and duck fat. You can find these at Walmart nowadays even.

[MPhelps]

Haven't changed anything in awhile as far as soaps and detergents.

I'm on the right track here. Beef and some sweet potato and carrots. That's it. I don't actually feel hungry which is nice. High carb diets I was always hungry/hangry. My skin hasn't itched and some of my acne has cleared up.

I felt nauseous last night before bed, but that cleared up too.

[JFick]

Haven't changed anything in awhile as far as soaps and detergents.

I'm on the right track here. Beef and some sweet potato and carrots. That's it. I don't actually feel hungry which is nice. High carb diets I was always hungry/hangry. My skin hasn't itched and some of my acne has cleared up.

I felt nauseous last night before bed, but that cleared up too.

Good to hear it's working so far. Nutrition is so individual. Carb tolerances are no different. Dom D'Augustino says he has subjects who can eat 250g and stay in ketosis thanks to their activity levels. Only universal rules I think there are would be like excessive refined sugar is bad and try to eat as little processed stuff as possible. Good luck!

[MPhelps]

The secret ingredient is salt!
-Marge Simpson

Adding fairly large amounts of salt to my water bottle and eating sauerkraut and pickles has made a world of difference in how I feel. I kept carbs to about 40g yesterday. I lifted in the morning with only a few berries and coffee in me. It went fine, but I'm currently keeping weights low anyway.

It's pretty much an all or nothing way of eating. I'm not feeling either full or hungry. I feel like I can eat when I feel like I need to rather than needing to eat something all the time like I felt on high carb.

I've ordered a gallon of MCT oil from piping rock, and Phinney and Volek's The Art and Science of Low Carb Performance.

[Wilhelm]

The secret ingredient is salt!
-Marge Simpson

Adding fairly large amounts of salt to my water bottle and eating sauerkraut and pickles has made a world of difference in how I feel. I kept carbs to about 40g yesterday. I lifted in the morning with only a few berries and coffee in me. It went fine, but I'm currently keeping weights low anyway.

It's pretty much an all or nothing way of eating. I'm not feeling either full or hungry. I feel like I can eat when I feel like I need to rather than needing to eat something all the time like I felt on high carb.

I've ordered a gallon of MCT oil from piping rock, and Phinney and Volek's The Art and Science of Low Carb Performance.

Nice.

Start with just a little MCT oil at a time, and have plenty of water around consuming it.
I can easily do 2 Tbsp at a time (and i assume more) but it is probabaly a safe thing to do to work up to it.

"Disaster pants" sounds funny, but it's no joke.
I don't know the exact mechanism, but something about the body needing more water to process it in the gut before sending it to the liver, and the gut wall opens up somehow to draw more water in.

Just to be safe, i would suggest a teaspoon at a time a few times a day the first day, then bump it to two teaspoons, and so on.

Blood ketone level should rise from about 70 minutes after ingestion and peak at 90 to 120 iirc.
I usually start lifting about an hour after drinking my breakfast so the "extra" ketones come online for squat worksets.
I think it's not really that big a deal, as i have lots of dietary fat in the form of coconut oil in my coffee much earlier than that, and probably don't need to rely on any boost i get from the MCT oil, but i still time it that way.
That also gives me time to start to digest the whey.
If i'm going to do 2 Tbsp in a shake, that will breakfast before squatting.

I've probably done 6 tablespoons of MCT oil a day on many occasions, but i've trimmed it down to 2 or 3 just to stretch my supply out and bring yearly costs down.

[MPhelps]

Is it really that different from olive oil or animal fat with regards to pants-shitting? I've been eating plenty of animal fat and some olive or canola oil without any troubles.

[Wilhelm]

Is it really that different from olive oil or animal fat with regards to pants-shitting? I've been eating plenty of animal fat and some olive or canola oil without any troubles.

The MCTs are metabolized differently than other oils.

I bet you'd be fine with tablespoons to start, but i always tell people to ramp up, and drink plenty of water.

I only ever had a reaction once, from some candy i made.
You don't want that to happen,

[MPhelps]

I've been having loose stool all day. I just bought some coconut oil, olives, pistachios, nu salt (the Limp Bizkit of salt substitutes) at the tiny ripoff grocery store in town.

I just ate some nuts, olives, and a TBS of coconut oil. I'm close enough to the toilet if needed.

I did my usual Sunday workout fasted except for caffeine and a few strawberries.
This includes anaerobic threshold intervals, and a bunch of bodyweight exercises. I felt fine.

[Wilhelm]

I've been having loose stool all day. I just bought some coconut oil, olives, pistachios, nu salt (the Limp Bizkit of salt substitutes) at the tiny ripoff grocery store in town.

I just ate some nuts, olives, and a TBS of coconut oil. I'm close enough to the toilet if needed.

I did my usual Sunday workout fasted except for caffeine and a few strawberries.
This includes anaerobic threshold intervals, and a bunch of bodyweight exercises. I felt fine.

Fiber is critical.

Brocolli is my mainstay, and chard mixed in sometimes.
The chard actually doesn't firm things up, but the brocolli definitely does.
1 net carb per ounce brocolli.

I average 4 oz a day.
in the blender with water and mustard powder.
Raw gives the best result for sulforaphane yeild, and the enzyme in the mustard powder increases that.

I've heard good things about psyllium husk, but haven't tried it.
Don't need another item on the shopping list, and i like getting my cruciferous veggies, so they're a two fer for me.

[5hout]

@Wilhelm Do you have any thoughts on fat vs protein balance in the morning vs evening? I've been considering trying to eat most of my fat during the day, and leaving the more protein heavy meals balance more towards dinner time.

[Wilhelm]

@Wilhelm Do you have any thoughts on fat vs protein balance in the morning vs evening? I've been considering trying to eat most of my fat during the day, and leaving the more protein heavy meals balance more towards dinner time.

I split my protein evenly between three feedings. I've also adjusted down to around .65 to .7 grams per lb bodyweight of protein, and that works out to about 42 grams protein per meal.
Any extra, like when i have a few eggs, just goes on top of that, though it doesn't ever take me very far at all above .7, and most always i stay below that.
I always have some fat with each bolus of protein, but i also try and do as many of my calories as early in the day as i can.
That leaves me with a lighter meal of whey and heavy cream around 4pm to 6pm.
I figure if i have a bunch of calories in my coffees early, i can use that for energy when i'm awake and active.
That's usually at least three hours before i lift, then first meal is 1 hour before lifting.

Also, it's really getting to be a bitch getting in 3,500 calories a day to keep this fairly slow bulk going.
The more i get in early, the easier the rest of the day is.
I've always been around 90kg at meets, but i'm thinking next year, i will cut below 83, and then just eat like 3,000 to 3,100, and go in to the meet at the very low end of the 93s. My points will be better if i can get stronger.
I'll also be M3 by then, and our meets use age adjusted IPF points, so i will have a good shot at a top award.

I also like to get my veggies in early, so they can get processed, and i can get them "out of the way" early the next day, before lifting.
On actual lifting days, i do them at second meal, after lifting.

[5hout]

Thanks for the info, will have to digest it. I am 100% onboard with the early veggies/front loading calories.

3.5k/day is one of those things that seemed so easy when I started keto, but now would be rather grindy to do with a reasonable grocery bill.

[Wilhelm]

Thanks for the info, will have to digest it. I am 100% onboard with the early veggies/front loading calories.

3.5k/day is one of those things that seemed so easy when I started keto, but now would be rather grindy to do with a reasonable grocery bill.

Yeah, it's getting really old.

I added to my above post that i would try something different next year, but i may actually dial things back now and see how it goes.
I'm waking up at 191 to 192.5 lbs these days.

[MPhelps]

I can't even hit 2000 yet. Fat is still a bit hard to eat. I ate 3 TBS coconut oil today, no issues bowelwise.

My veggies are going to be cooked carrots olives, pickles and sauerkraut. I'm a bit burned out on buying fresh veggies and trying to eat or cook them before they go bad, pickled stuff is obviously easier, if not as healthy.

I'm trying hard to keep my salt at around 5000mg. I'm actually gaining weight because of the salt.

So I'm trying to adjust a bit here because I'm eating a bit too much meat vs fat. How do you guys adjust for fat? Just more MCT and dairy?

[5hout]

Fatty meat, steaks, 80/20, chicken thighs (with skin) vs chicken breasts, cheese on everything, mayo on everything. Bulletproof coffee. Fat bombs, sometimes I'll just google one and make it.

It's easier to do with a set of recipes as examples, but so many recipes that are published are infected with the "low fat" mindset, even keto ones. Look at anything you want to prep or make in bulk and swapping in fatty cuts of meat and fattier options whenever possible.

Frozen spinach/broccoli is pretty good, lasts forever. I am sort of stuck in a sick of shopping Sunday/Wednesday, but also sick of having veg go bad on Thursday if I just try to shop once a week rut, so lots of frozen spinach right now.

Today I ate 2 80/20 burgers (1000 cal), 2 chicken breast (300 cal), protein shake (150 cal), some fatty salad dressing (~150?), and them some veg for about 1.6/1.7k calories. If I was trying to gain I would have swapped the breasts for thighs with skin (would have jacked it up to 500 cals, at least, for a gain of 200, add mayo dressing for another 150), added some fat to the protein shake (1 tbls, 120 cal), added cheese to burgers (200 cal), maybe cheese to veg or a 2nd calorie heavy shake.

One thing that you might find useful is to prep out a breakfast before going to bed. If you can start your day with an instant meal, say 2 chicken thighs, no skin, chopped up with a little spicy mayo, it reallllly helps keep your calorie totals up.

[michael]

chicken thighs, no skin

No skin? This is a keto thread. Eat the skin.

[MPhelps]

I'm doing a no dairy, no grain thing. It was kind of how I got here in the first place, so I'm seeing limitations in the fat department. Fatty meats, fatty fish, eggs, olives, MCT oil, nuts and seeds will be my go to then. I might add dairy in after a few weeks if I feel it won't fuck me up.

[Wilhelm]

I'm doing a no dairy, no grain thing. It was kind of how I got here in the first place, so I'm seeing limitations in the fat department. Fatty meats, fatty fish, eggs, olives, MCT oil, nuts and seeds will be my go to then. I might add dairy in after a few weeks if I feel it won't fuck me up.

Heavy cream has almost no lactose.
My wife definitely tolerates it better than something like half and half or milk.
https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/da ... in-lactose