Avatar Nutrition

[JohnHelton]

I just started using this again. The app isn't great, but the website is pretty good. I like the flexibility in comparison to the RP app. I don't want to ever drop my fats too low. That is something that you can control with Avatar. We will see how it goes. I'm starting at 202 lbs. with a 36" waist. Planning on sticking with Fat Loss until I hit a 33" waist. Then I will switch to the slowest bulk setting.

[LexAnderson]

I've been thinking of switching back to Avatar as well. The RP app isn't what I would call user friendly. I wish it had more ability to input custom foods and scan them in.

[alek]

Slightly off-topic: was Avatar Nutrition was upon a time owned by Layne Norton?

[LexAnderson]

Slightly off-topic: was Avatar Nutrition was upon a time owned by Layne Norton?

Correct. I'm not sure if he sold it or not, but I know that he was one of the creators of it.

[alek]

Slightly off-topic: was Avatar Nutrition was upon a time owned by Layne Norton?

Correct. I'm not sure if he sold it or not, but I know that he was one of the creators of it.

Ah, okay. I tend to check his instagram regularly, and I thought he had mentioned it in the past tense. If I was in to the app thing for food/diet, I'd likely give it a try simply because he was a part of it.

[CamLeslie]

Slightly off-topic: was Avatar Nutrition was upon a time owned by Layne Norton?

Correct. I'm not sure if he sold it or not, but I know that he was one of the creators of it.

Ah, okay. I tend to check his instagram regularly, and I thought he had mentioned it in the past tense. If I was in to the app thing for food/diet, I'd likely give it a try simply because he was a part of it.

I think he split with them after they refused to hire his girlfriend.

[RadfordMcAwesome]

Are these apps that much better than My Fitness Pal?

[LexAnderson]

I think he split with them after they refused to hire his girlfriend.

Yeah, that makes sense. Who cares about nepotism, right?!?!

[JohnHelton]

Are these apps that much better then My Fitness Pal?

With Avatar, you do track what you eat / plan to eat like My Fitness Pal. However, it will adjust your macro targets each week dependent on your goals, what you have consumed, your weight, and your body fat percentage. That is the functionality that you have to pay for. There is also the sense of accountability as well...even if it is to an AI.

Of additional note, it can be customized to have high and low days to match your workout schedule. And it you screw-up one day, it has a smoothing function to try to get you closer to the target for the week.

[TimK]

Lane co-founded the company and eventually was sued and kicked out by whoever the other owners were, definitely didn't leave voluntarily. I remember seeing stuff online about how it was all due to trying to get his girlfriend hired, but I don't know if that's true or just unfounded internet gossip. It did happen right around the time when he admitted to cheating on his wife and got divorced so it seems plausible, but who knows.

[TheGloriousW]

I wish I would have learned about this tool earlier than I did. I'd be way ahead of where I am now. My old ways just weren't working anymore. So far this seems flexible enough and easy enough to use that it is not a complete hassle.

[JohnHelton]

I wish I would have learned about this tool earlier than I did. I'd be way ahead of where I am now. My old ways just weren't working anymore. So far this seems flexible enough and easy enough to use that it is not a complete hassle.

I think it is pretty great. I used it in the spring to cut and am using it again now to cut some more. Definitely worth the cost. Unless your metabolism is completely screwed up, it will reliably take the weight off. I have also used it for doing an ultra slow bulk. That works too. You just can't mind plugging everything you eat into the app.

[TheGloriousW]

I wish I would have learned about this tool earlier than I did. I'd be way ahead of where I am now. My old ways just weren't working anymore. So far this seems flexible enough and easy enough to use that it is not a complete hassle.

I think it is pretty great. I used it in the spring to cut and am using it again now to cut some more. Definitely worth the cost. Unless your metabolism is completely screwed up, it will reliably take the weight off. I have also used it for doing an ultra slow bulk. That works too. You just can't mind plugging everything you eat into the app.

I REALLY like the fact that by the time breakfast is finished, and I find out dinner plans, I can pretty easily adjust everything else I eat to nail my marcos. No guessing. Plus I can see what foods I ate which hurt my macro balance more than they helped, looking at you fruit/banana/protein powder smoothie, and make corrections in habit.

My wife is trying to go vegan, but I think she if getting half the protein she needs. This tool could help her learn how to eat with plant based diet.

[JohnHelton]

@TheGloriousW, I plan my whole day in the morning as well. Then it is like eating per an agenda.

[augeleven]

A potentially stupid question: would something like this work for someone who is *cough* lacking in food discipline, or someone who is *ahem* out of control with his eating habits?

I’m not expecting a magic bullet, but I would kinda like a magic bullet, please.

[JohnHelton]

A potentially stupid question: would something like this work for someone who is *cough* lacking in food discipline, or someone who is *ahem* out of control with his eating habits?

I’m not expecting a magic bullet, but I would kinda like a magic bullet, please.

It is based on IIFYM, so there isn't a concept of clean eating. It has a fiber suggestion, but it is just a suggestion. It does require discipline, but I think the structure can help with that discipline. I find it much harder to try to only eat certain foods in order to lose weight. Being able to eat the foods I like makes the process much easier. The program just shows you the amounts that you can eat. Even the fats / carbs balance is more of a suggestion than a requirement. From my experience losing the weight is pretty easy day-to-day. The hard part is avoiding the blow out meals. This is easier when you put a time limit on how long you are going to cut. If you only do it for 8-12 weeks, then skipping pizza, etc. is easier since you know it isn't for a lifetime. I think you ideally only cut for about 8 weeks. After the cut, go on maintenance for 8 weeks before cutting again. Taking a break feels good as does starting a new cut much lighter than the last one.

[OrderInChaos]

A potentially stupid question: would something like this work for someone who is *cough* lacking in food discipline, or someone who is *ahem* out of control with his eating habits?

I’m not expecting a magic bullet, but I would kinda like a magic bullet, please.

I agree with John's 8&8 approach, I feel better doing that. I don't think Avatar is too special for inspiring a huge behavior change based on my wife's and my experience using the app at the same time. My wife liked the visual aids, "you need xx more carbs and xx more protein today, xx fat left", but neither of us really developed a solid eating plan to fit the assigned macros in the app (which I feel is a way more important change than just tracking and awareness of numbers).

In fact, one of the dudes here made http://setyourmacros.com/, which is basically the Avatar sliders thingy but allows 0 carb/keto, and you have to apply the "the scale didn't budge, and I was compliant?!?" algorithms yourself... so if after 2 weeks no progress on 200/200/40 c/p/f, subtract 25c and 5f, repeat. etc. Really not that hard, you just have to use MFP or something for tracking and do a little more legwork yourself.

(Not sure that qualifies as a magic bullet, tho)

If you want the clean eating thing rather than IIFYM, the RP app is really solid - has a free 14 day trial as well to get a feel for it. I think if you use the app to plan meals for the week in advance (which can then generate a grocery list for you to fit all the different quantities you require), it solves the "behavior change" thing better than Avatar can. But it's also repetitive and grindy with limited support for IIFYM (you could do 95% of your foods built into the app with whole foods/clean eating, and add in your packaged or ordered-out meal via barcode or manually, but it's purpose-built to discourage those meals in favor of oats, quinoa, egg whites, chicken, all the veg you can manage, etc.

I think it's 14.99/mo? So not much more than Avatar-on-discount... and I'd say more of a magic bullet *if you can comply with the limited food choice* (I liked the app but quit within 14 day window, because I realized it was the fire under my ass of planning meals for 1 week out that made my weight loss successful or not more than having an app I neurotically plug in numbers as a religious ritual)

^As with all the RP template/app/etc. stuff, if you're prone to disordered patterns and supreme binge-y tendencies I'd recommend against it (the app also does this lol)

[BenM]

I was a fairly early Avatar user.

If you're like me @augeleven - tracking is a great tool if you can deal with it and it doesn't cause anxiety. I kinda think everyone should do it at least for a short period because it's great for teaching portions and getting a good idea of what foods are what, but it's not for everyone long term... in my case long term tracking of macros messed me up a bit psychologically, and I do blame it at least partly for my binge eating and food neuroses nowadays. It's my personality type too, if you're prone to 'all or nothing' type thinking, it's probably not the right way to go, but if you're comfortable being flexible and it doesn't cause anxiety then it might be a good fit, it's certainly effective for weight loss if that's what you want. But it's really possible and feasible to lose weight without it too.

For me, I've spent a long time trying to deal with my food issues and feel like I've made progress over the last year or two. But as said above, it has been far more about behaviour change and good habits than anything else, and also a bit of mindfulness stuff. If you ever want to talk about it mate, give me a shout, I know it's not easy. I feel like it's especially difficult when you have a job and wife and kids and it feels like you only have limited control over lots of life things, including nutrition. Unfortunately I don't think there's a magic bullet out there, if only.....

[augeleven]

Thanks, gents! I really appreciate your input.
@BenM , I’m definitely going to take you up on that offer and pick your brain once things settle down around here.

I like the idea of IIFYM in general, but I like @OrderInChaos’s idea of using RPs templates to build weekly eating plans.

[BenM]

Thanks, gents! I really appreciate your input.
@BenM , I’m definitely going to take you up on that offer and pick your brain once things settle down around here.

I like the idea of IIFYM in general, but I like @OrderInChaos’s idea of using RPs templates to build weekly eating plans.

Feel free man. I mean, all I know is what I've read in your log, so I could be totally off base, but I get the feeling we have stuff in common. Life is too goddamn short for us to have unimportant stuff taking up space in our head that we could be using for more important stuff like family and fun. I also have an RP diet template that I bought and never used too - probably not appropriate for me to share it around given that it's a paid product but happy to give you a rough idea of what's on it if it helps get you started on a meal plan.

Just to be clear for anyone else reading, I have zero issues with people who like tracking macros and find it works for them, either. Like I said, it's a great tool... but there is definitely more evidence emerging that for some people/personality types it can lead to psychological issues/disordered eating too. Helms has raised it a bunch of times, actually Brian Alsruhe even mentioned in a recent video that that's why he doesn't track, he knows it would mess with his head.

I'm glad someone like setyourmacros.com too - I completely forgot that I'd made that! I did that (when I was tracking) because for me, I found Avatar wasn't quite flexible enough - I couldn't set my protein high enough, or go low carb enough (if I chose to do that). Avatar (at the time) also wasn't great for say, a mini cut or a PSMF where you wanted to lose a whole bunch of weight fast (like 2-4 weeks) - I couldn't set calories quite low enough. So I made it as a bit of a next step up for people who are a bit more advanced, and are comfortable setting their own macro targets but needed an easy to use calculator.

So getting it back on topic, I see Avatar as a great product for people who need objectivity / don't want to think about adjustments too hard, and particularly for the beginners it can be really helpful to have the support community to ask questions and stuff too. But after a while, I got sick of seeing 'how do you hit your protein target?? it's so much!!' and 'I have x grams of carbs left for the day, what do I eat?' type questions every. goddamn. day....