Who's Fasting

[Austin]

I'm wondering what @Austin 's take is on this?

I think there's some interesting stuff coming out in the chrononutrition world with respect to restricted feeding windows.

I haven't looked into much fasting literature otherwise to have a strong opinion on the matter. There are usually bigger therapeutic targets I'm aiming at with most people.

[JohnHelton]

FWIW and a n=1, my strength, body composition, and bloodwork were always worse on low carb, keto, and/or IF than a traditional diet, even given healthy BW and waist measurements in all scenarios. And I did these things “right” (DTFP?).

I think this may be very dependent on the individual. My lipid panel has substantially improved over the last six years as I transitioned away from high carbs (and running marathons) to low carb (and strength training). However, I know that my blood work shows signs of insulin insensitivity. Thus, I seem to benefit from fewer insulin spikes, which IF can facilitate.

[dcw]

I think this may be very dependent on the individual.

Agree

[Mindtowork]

For those of you fast I have to wonder what kind of jobs you all have. ..... I can't imagine fasting while doing a physical labor job...

[OrderInChaos]

For those of you fast I have to wonder what kind of jobs you all have. ..... I can't imagine fasting while doing a physical labor job...

I bet a heavy duty physical laborer like a bricklayer or roustabout 1) has less immediate need for dietary intervention than an 8-10 hour-a-day white collar worker and 2) generally spends significantly less time on strength forums than white collar/cushy job holders with plenty of expendable income and time to waste online at work

I think the strengths of IF and keto are more meaningful for shift workers and other folks who struggle to get 5k steps or even less than that per day.

[broseph]

For those of you fast I have to wonder what kind of jobs you all have. ..... I can't imagine fasting while doing a physical labor job...

Opposite. I always wonder how manual laborers force themselves to eat during the work day.

When I’m doing heavy manual labor at home during the summer, I completely lose my appetite. I usually force myself to have a whey and ice cream shake or something half way through the day.

[Mahendra]

Interestingly enough, I meant to start a thread on fasting sometime last week. Glad you did.

Although I haven't done an extended period of fasting (i.e. 5 days), over the past 4 Saturday's, I've fasted for about 22-24 hours each Saturday, drinking only water and a cup of herbal tea (no caffeine).

The 1st time I did it wasn't intentional. Wife and I were out and about all day doing our Saturday errands, and I wasn't hungry at all, nor did I feel a drop in energy. If anything, my mind felt calmer and I could focus better. It went well that I tried it again the following week, and the week after, etc.

I regularly do intermittent fasting, but since I exercise in the mornings, whenever I lift weights, I have about 30-35 grams of whey protein about ~30 minutes after I train (around 7:30 A.M.). My first meal of the day is around 1 PM. I would forgo the scoop of whey after training until my 1st meal, but have read ideas about the need for some protein in your body around training. (Mainly from Andy Morgan).

[JohnHelton]

I have been eating low carb (not keto) for awhile. I then added 18 hour fasts to that this week. The combination pushed me into ketosis yesterday. I then squatted last night fairly heavy for me (though nowhere near PR territory). The result was that my body crashed as soon as I burned up the CP-ATP (my theory). I have never had this happen before. The first two reps moved as expected. Then I lost all power. Pretty crazy.

[alek]

However, I know that my blood work shows signs of insulin insensitivity.

Wow, this surprises me since I'd expect you to have much more muscle mass now as opposed to marathon days, which typically makes one more sensitive to insulin I thought.

The result was that my body crashed as soon as I burned up the CP-ATP (my theory). I have never had this happen before. The first two reps moved as expected. Then I lost all power. Pretty crazy.

This sounds like what I call being "bonked". Used to happen to me on long cycling rides if I didn't eat enough. It was a very weird feeling--light-headedness, disconnected feeling, extreme lethargy.

[JohnHelton]

This sounds like what I call being "bonked". Used to happen to me on long cycling rides if I didn't eat enough. It was a very weird feeling--light-headedness, disconnected feeling, extreme lethargy.

That is exactly what I thought of too. I have bonked twice in marathons. Same type of experience. Running along at a good pace and then one minute later I can't move faster than a 12-13 min/mile pace. I know being fat-adapted can help avoid the bonks. I don't know how/if that works with regard to CP-ATP.

[Mindtowork]

I have been eating low carb (not keto) for awhile. I then added 18 hour fasts to that this week. The combination pushed me into ketosis yesterday. I then squatted last night fairly heavy for me (though nowhere near PR territory). The result was that my body crashed as soon as I burned up the CP-ATP (my theory). I have never had this happen before. The first two reps moved as expected. Then I lost all power. Pretty crazy.

Have you had goos results with the regular low carb diet?

[KyleSchuant]

For those of you fast I have to wonder what kind of jobs you all have. ..... I can't imagine fasting while doing a physical labor job...

I have two small children, I don't think I'd want to be hangry while dealing with them.

Fasting seems to me like the dietary version of the "exercise as voluntary hardship" thing. Inflicting avoidable suffering on yourself in the hopes of spiritual improvement. And here was me thinking the flagellants faded away in the 15th century. Mind you, a lot of them were burned by the Inquisition.

Incremental change seems less miserable and more sustainable.

[Mindtowork]

For those of you fast I have to wonder what kind of jobs you all have. ..... I can't imagine fasting while doing a physical labor job...

I have two small children, I don't think I'd want to be hangry while dealing with them.

Fasting seems to me like the dietary version of the "exercise as voluntary hardship" thing. Inflicting avoidable suffering on yourself in the hopes of spiritual improvement. And here was me thinking the flagellants faded away in the 15th century. Mind you, a lot of them were burned by the Inquisition.

Incremental change seems less miserable and more sustainable.

Im inclined to agree

[JohnHelton]

I have been eating low carb (not keto) for awhile. I then added 18 hour fasts to that this week. The combination pushed me into ketosis yesterday. I then squatted last night fairly heavy for me (though nowhere near PR territory). The result was that my body crashed as soon as I burned up the CP-ATP (my theory). I have never had this happen before. The first two reps moved as expected. Then I lost all power. Pretty crazy.

Have you had goos results with the regular low carb diet?

Yes. I have had good result eating generally low-carb. That is about 100-150g per day.

[Mindtowork]

I have been eating low carb (not keto) for awhile. I then added 18 hour fasts to that this week. The combination pushed me into ketosis yesterday. I then squatted last night fairly heavy for me (though nowhere near PR territory). The result was that my body crashed as soon as I burned up the CP-ATP (my theory). I have never had this happen before. The first two reps moved as expected. Then I lost all power. Pretty crazy.

Have you had goos results with the regular low carb diet?

Yes. I have had good result eating generally low-carb. That is about 100-150g per day.

I think thats a reasonable change I can make as opposed to full blown keto

[psmith]

For those of you fast I have to wonder what kind of jobs you all have. ..... I can't imagine fasting while doing a physical labor job...

I have two small children, I don't think I'd want to be hangry while dealing with them.

Fasting seems to me like the dietary version of the "exercise as voluntary hardship" thing. Inflicting avoidable suffering on yourself in the hopes of spiritual improvement. And here was me thinking the flagellants faded away in the 15th century. Mind you, a lot of them were burned by the Inquisition.

Incremental change seems less miserable and more sustainable.

On the contrary. Of course, "fasting" can mean many different things, but what I find attractive about the whiz-bang sophisticated nutritional strategy of "skipping breakfast, and sometimes lunch too" is precisely how psychologically and logistically easy it is to cut calories that way as opposed to weighing and measuring everything I eat, eliminating certain foods, following a set menu, planning meals before and after a workout, eating breakfast when I don't really feel like it, and so forth. (And, come to think of it, how compatible it is with things like meals out with friends or coworkers, a scheduled lunch break at noon rather than one at eleven and another at three, and so forth.). If you really want to wring every drop of performance out of a caloric deficit, sure, you're probably better off with smaller more frequent feedings and adjusting your lifestyle accordingly, but some form of IF is a nice first-pass solution.

[Mahendra]

For those of you fast I have to wonder what kind of jobs you all have. ..... I can't imagine fasting while doing a physical labor job...

I have two small children, I don't think I'd want to be hangry while dealing with them.

Fasting seems to me like the dietary version of the "exercise as voluntary hardship" thing. Inflicting avoidable suffering on yourself in the hopes of spiritual improvement. And here was me thinking the flagellants faded away in the 15th century. Mind you, a lot of them were burned by the Inquisition.

Incremental change seems less miserable and more sustainable.

FWIW, I've found that the Saturday's I do fast (22-24 hours), I haven't felt hangry at all. If anything, I found myself to be calmer, and able to think clearer.

I don't consider it voluntary hardship, or inflicting avoidable suffering in hopes of spiritual improvement.

[FredM]

For those of you fast I have to wonder what kind of jobs you all have. ..... I can't imagine fasting while doing a physical labor job...

I have two small children, I don't think I'd want to be hangry while dealing with them.

Fasting seems to me like the dietary version of the "exercise as voluntary hardship" thing. Inflicting avoidable suffering on yourself in the hopes of spiritual improvement. And here was me thinking the flagellants faded away in the 15th century. Mind you, a lot of them were burned by the Inquisition.

Incremental change seems less miserable and more sustainable.

On the contrary. Of course, "fasting" can mean many different things, but what I find attractive about the whiz-bang sophisticated nutritional strategy of "skipping breakfast, and sometimes lunch too" is precisely how psychologically and logistically easy it is to cut calories that way as opposed to weighing and measuring everything I eat, eliminating certain foods, following a set menu, planning meals before and after a workout, eating breakfast when I don't really feel like it, and so forth. (And, come to think of it, how compatible it is with things like meals out with friends or coworkers, a scheduled lunch break at noon rather than one at eleven and another at three, and so forth.). If you really want to wring every drop of performance out of a caloric deficit, sure, you're probably better off with smaller more frequent feedings and adjusting your lifestyle accordingly, but some form of IF is a nice first-pass solution.

This. Though I'm not sure if Kyle was referring to JUST IF, as opposed to IF and TRF, which is usually what people mean when they say "intermittent fasting."

I haven't counted a calorie in 7 months. Currently gaining just under a lb/wk on my first bulk like this. Lost just over a lb a week cutting. Maintenance of 3 weeks ended up with +1 lb bw. All I do is:

Cutting: Skip breakfast (feeding window 12-8)
Maintain: Have a protein bar and fancy coffee drink for breakfast (instead of black coffee or cold brews).
Bulk: Have a roughly 1,000 calorie breakfast. I'm not actually counting here, just know what 1000 calories looks like after 2 years of counting

I'll probably try doing TRF AND IF on my next cut because I want to lose closer to 2 lbs/wk -- which will probably look exactly like my last cut except I'll skip lunch too on Sundays.

With a 0-1 year old who hates sleeping and the life stresses that come with being his sole provider, counting calories was just too much for me. TRF saved my training life.

[simonrest]

I have been eating low carb (not keto) for awhile. I then added 18 hour fasts to that this week. The combination pushed me into ketosis yesterday. I then squatted last night fairly heavy for me (though nowhere near PR territory). The result was that my body crashed as soon as I burned up the CP-ATP (my theory). I have never had this happen before. The first two reps moved as expected. Then I lost all power. Pretty crazy.

I've had the same, my strength drops off far quicker into set

[CoolColJ]

here is my weight chart from the last 4 months since I started 20:4 IF and a weekly 35-40 hour wet/dry fast, until a month ago

The big dip was my 65 hour dry fast - yeap no food and water for 65 hours - I lived


There appears to be a cap on fat loss, as I had 2000-3700 deficits on some days/weeks and the fat loss remained linear throughout.

I ate under 100g of protein for most of this time and still managed to gain strength and muscle despite this, muscle memory helps

Once your body adapts, I was training while fasted no issues, weights, BBall, and tons of walking on the same days, yes even without water... the body melts fat for water
Hunger/thirst was not an issue once adapted