Who's Fasting

[JohnHelton]

@CoolColJ, wow! Super impressive. How many kilograms per week did you lose?

[CoolColJ]

@CoolColJ, wow! Super impressive. How many kilograms per week did you lose?

first month was about 1kg a week, then I ramped it up and peaked at about 2+kg a week, then it settled down at around 1.5kg. 0.75 inch off the waist on best week. You could see visual changes every day
On my best month I dropped over 6kg
Waist went from 43 inches to 35

Oh yeah, reheated boiled potatoes, for that resistant starch is your best friend, so filling, for not that many calories. pack on the sea salt, and cracked black pepper for electrolytes

[JohnHelton]

@CoolColJ, pretty incredible. I have an 8-week weight loss challenge at work starting January 2nd. Have to lose 1% each week from my starting weight. It seems like your approach could be a great strategy. I will only need to lose about 7 kg over 8 weeks.

[GregoryDomnin]

I have practiced fasting off and on for several years.

1. when scientists say "fast" most studies have been a calorie restriction of between 600 and 800 calories per day. Not full deprivation and you can feel full all day if you primarily eat either high fiber or high protein foods or both (beans)
2. It isn't that bad to deal with. I freakin swear these people talking about voluntary hardship don't get it. It is easier to fast two days a week than it is to constantly monitor what you eat 5:2 diet for example)
3. The longest I went was four days in a row. Do not recommend unless you do follow number one.

The science behind fasting is awesome and getting better. The problem with the science and the word fasting is that it has meant different things in different studies and the media has taken them to all mean the same thing. That is not going to work.

You might be able to find my log still in Egypt where I fasted for cutting. It worked great for me then. It still works for me but sometimes I have to do it three days a week.

[alek]

That’s one of the confusing things about the literature—the definitions used. You really have to read the papers. A lot would say intermittent fasting, which you’d think is what the gen pop thinks it is, but no, to the scientists, it’s often synonymous with alternate day fasting. Time restricted feeding was often what gen pop considers intermittent fasting.

There were a couple other cases like this, but greg’s post jogged my memory about that.

[Spaghetti]

[EDIT 2019-12-17: added more notes]
I just finished up 11 months of alternate day fasting (36hr actual fast, 12 hour eating window). My notes:

• It took about 6 weeks to stop constantly thinking about food on my fasting days in the beginning, though it starts bubbling up again as you get leaner

• I was around 30% body fat, for the first 2-3 months, it was a brain-dead way to lose weight quickly (~2.25lb/wk) without a major change to what I ate. I got too full on during my eating window to eat back all the fasted calories.

• When nutrition and calories (maintenance levels on eating days) were on point, I lost about 3lb/wk, but I felt like I got hit by a bus after a few weeks. I would NOT RECOMMEND 3lb/wk for more than a couple weeks. I had this going on for about 8 weeks and I think that's when I lost what most of little lbm I had as I was too fatigued to workout.

• Stalled roughly every 15 pounds lost. Increasing activity didn't help, but adjusting my diet did.

• I attempted to train in the morning, right before breaking my fast, compounds left me super fatigued for the rest of the day no matter how much I ate after working out. Machines and isolation work didn't.

• In my opinion, it's super easy to develop some kind of eating disorder in the process. I didn't restrict any foods, ate on holidays and events, and always cut a fast short if I felt dizzy, however I become obsessive about meeting the next weight loss goal. I would weigh myself several times a day any time I got close to my common appetite settling points (175lb, 168lb, 163lb), hoping to finally break through them.

• Any kind of resistance training would kill the weight loss for at least a month. Trying to force myself through this "stall" would leave me super fatigued.

• Getting enough sleep = weight just melting off. Not getting enough sleep = eating everything in sight.

• Getting 10k steps per day helped a lot more than i expected, but forget any kind of marathon training.

• I had a planned 3 week diet break in September. I ate ALL THE FOOD and promptly gained back about 10lb. Obviously I still had a crap relationship with food even after losing 30lb.

• Fasting days = FREEZING. It got to the point that I can predict how large a weight loss I would have the next day based on how soon into the fast I felt cold.

• For some reason, it was really hard for me to fine tune the rate of weight loss, it felt like it was all-or-nothing.

• I actually felt pretty good on fasting days and a lot of times it felt like I was wired up on caffeine.

• [EDIT 2019-12-17] Awake-but-resting heart rate tended to be about 10bpm lower on fasting days. Lowest measured heart rate (usually during sleep) was usually 15bpm lower.

• [EDIT 2019-12-17] It was a million times easier for me to not eat anything at all than to constantly monitor food intake; the majority of the weight loss didn't require tracking any calories at all. I did start monitoring near the end but that was to help transition into a more sustainable diet.

• [EDIT 2019-12-17] Specifically for cutting, I had way less anxiety/depression-like symptoms when fasting than when I tried keeping a daily caloric deficit. This was the biggest reason why I went the fasting route for cutting as previous attempts with a daily caloric deficit had me mentally in a bad spot after only 6-8 weeks even at a sustainable 1lb/wk loss. The same issues also started bubbling up with the fasting, but that started happening after 8 months.

All in all, I lost 40lb of the 50lb I was shooting for. About 16lb of that loss was lbm according to a DEXA scan, but I was taking a scorched earth approach anyway. It took 5 months longer than I planned, mostly because I had to figure out for myself that my eating habits absolutely suck.

[BenM]

• In my opinion, it's super easy to develop some kind of eating disorder in the process. I didn't restrict any foods, ate on holidays and events, and always cut a fast short if I felt dizzy, however I become obsessive about meeting the next weight loss goal. I would weigh myself several times a day any time I got close to my common appetite settling points (175lb, 168lb, 163lb), hoping to finally break through them.

Thanks for posting the comprehensive writeup. I just wanted to comment on this point, that it's actually not just your opinion, I believe there is scientific evidence for this as well. There is a pretty high correlation between extreme dieting and eating disorders although there are other potential causes too, including a big genetic component (Jake Linardon goes into some of them in this article - https://breakbingeeating.com/eating-disorders/causes/)

That's not to say that there's anything wrong with intermittent fasting or TRF if that works for people and doesn't have adverse effects. I've certainly done 16:8 for long periods but I believe it's one of the things that triggers my binge eating, so in my current cut I'm avoiding it and at least getting some protein in at breakfast time to see how that goes, so far it seems to be working well.

[CoolColJ]

I never got cold on fasting days, like many say they do.
Never had any issues weight training for 2 hours after 1+ hours of bball with zero food in sight.

Guess it just suits my body better, than others

[simonrest]

I didn't know getting cold was a thing. I've been wondering why I have been feeling cold lately - I'm still wearing jeans and boots into summer

[Spaghetti]

Supposedly this is the thinking behind the cold:

https://leangains.com/eat-stop-eat-expa ... on-review/
Q: Sometimes when I fast my finger tips get cold, why is that?

Fasting increases the blood flow [study link: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20518748 ] to you body fat (the process is called adipose tissue blood flow). So when you are fasting more blood is travelling to your body fat, presumably to help move it to your muscles where it can be burned as a fuel. Do to this increased travel to your body fat, micro-vasodilation occurs in your fingertips and sometimes toes to compensate. So in some cases it’s a ‘necessary evil’ in the fat loss process.

I've also noticed at least a 10bpm drop in my awake-but-resting heart rate on my fasting days so that probably contributes to the coldness feeling. It's actually feels kinda nice in the summer, it's like my own air conditioning.

[MPhelps]

I was freezing all the time when I ate low fat high carb. I bought super expensive winter mitts because my hands would be intolerably cold in winter.

Eating disorders are definitely a real thing with calorie deficits. Mix that with calorie burn calculators and you're in for a fucking mess.

[CoolColJ]

Ok, I'm hot all the time, and it's not nice in summer here, but I do eat a bit of fat, 100-160g and under 200g of carbs, usually 100-150 at most. So maybe that's why?

Under 120g of protein

[gtl]

I did IF from Jan 2011 - late fall 2013. I should summarize my experience/thoughts at some point.

[Paul]

For those of you fast I have to wonder what kind of jobs you all have. ..... I can't imagine fasting while doing a physical labor job...

Opposite. I always wonder how manual laborers force themselves to eat during the work day.

When I’m doing heavy manual labor at home during the summer, I completely lose my appetite. I usually force myself to have a whey and ice cream shake or something half way through the day.

This. Eating slows me down. I've worked labor type jobs most of my life.
Fasted until 5:30 pm while working at a post mill carrying fresh cut logs for 10 hours a day. Felt great the whole time, hit the gym right after work, and got to my lowest bodyweight ever.

ETA: I wont speak for others or the gen pop, but I think my body adjusts to whatever I give it. If I don't eat before 2pm, I don't get hungry before 2pm, and suffer no adverse effects.

[broseph]

@Paul, food always just sticks in my stomach like a rock when I’m working hard, limiting my ability to drink fluids.

I’m no ruff’n’tuff like you, though. For me it’s just weekend warrior deck building or landscaping stuff. And lifting is off the table for those days.

[gtl]

I did IF from Jan 2011 - late fall 2013. I should summarize my experience/thoughts at some point.

Brief synopsis:

The summer after college (2008), I acquired 30lbs of mass through eating and sub-optimal programming where I thought I was actually getting y0k3d and becoming a real man at 202lbs, but really was just fat (38 inch waist). I did the Anabolic Diet and got fairly lean (13-15%) and also weak and became scared to gain weight again.

2 years later, I decided to bulk again, with some suboptimal programming. I got up to 192, again fat (36 inch waist) and still not strong.

During this entire time (and the years before), I was enslaved to the "gotta eat every 2-3 hours" mindset, would get anxious, hangry, etc. I would drive myself insane.

January 2011, I started IF. For pure laziness, I'll just bullet point it:

• I did 16:8, fasting until noon each day and stopping at 8pm (give or take)

• The first couple of weeks, I had BCAAs in the morning (not fasting) because I was afraid of wasting away

• Before IF, I was always forcing something down before or on the way to work, so I found it easy to save calories for something more enjoyable later in the day.

• I ate lunch at noon, which was typically 8oz lean meat, veggies, fruit, and some almonds

• I had a MRP shake around 3 with some fruit

• I had a BCAA+carb drink around 5 on the way to the gym

• I ate dinner around 7, which either became a force feeding session or sometimes ended up under-eating by quite a bit

• Sometimes dinner would end up including 1lb of lean ground beef + pasta, and maybe a dessert

• If I ever extended my eating window, I would cut it out of the next days eating window (push it out)

• I was drinking quite a bit on the weekends then, and sometimes would fast past 12 and supplement with BCAAS

• Never felt like energy was an issue based upon having 3 "meals" before training and having such a large dinner to get me through to the next day

• IF allowed me to get leaner than I ever had

• IF helped me break pattern of worrying about food all the time

• IF allowed me to enjoy some foods that I would have never allowed myself to before

• I did not think IF was conductive to muscle building or really strength training, so I transitioned away about 2.5 years later

I'm trying to think of anything else, and will edit this post if I add anything.

[JohnHelton]

I have started my cut using a 20/4 IF protocol. I'm only into my second day, but I can tell I like the setup. Not that hard to skip breakfast and lunch. I break the fast with a double scoop protein shake and then eat a big dinner a few hours later. It is nice not to feel cheated with small portions at every meal. It also gives you something to work for / look forward to during the day. I have gotten a little light headed during the day, but some salt seems to cure that almost immediately. My plan is to also throw in a 36 hour fast once per week (a couple days in advance of squats). If I'm ahead of my 1% weight loss per week target, then the 36 hour fast will be the first to go.

Starting weight = 219.7 lbs.
Waist = 38.2"
BF% = 19-20%

After 8 weeks:
Goal weight = 202 lbs.
Waist = 34.5"
BF% = 14%

Using the YMCA formula to calculate BF%.

[alek]

I have started my cut using a 20/4 IF protocol. I'm only into my second day, but I can tell I like the setup. Not that hard to skip breakfast and lunch. I break the fast with a double scoop protein shake and then eat a big dinner a few hours later. It is nice not to feel cheated with small portions at every meal. It also gives you something to work for / look forward to during the day. I have gotten a little light headed during the day, but some salt seems to cure that almost immediately. My plan is to also throw in a 36 hour fast once per week (a couple days in advance of squats). If I'm ahead of my 1% weight loss per week target, then the 36 hour fast will be the first to go.

Starting weight = 219.7 lbs.
Waist = 38.2"
BF% = 19-20%

After 8 weeks:
Goal weight = 202 lbs.
Waist = 34.5"
BF% = 14%

Using the YMCA formula to calculate BF%.

Good luck, John!

[CoolColJ]

Potassium and sea salt are your friends

[JohnHelton]

Thanks, @alek. I was already down to 213.5 this morning. I think I have to make sure I am eating enough in the 4 hour window or I will lose weight too fast. I think I have only been getting 1100-1300 calories per day. Today I made sure I got closer to 1700 with 150g of protein. That is a lot of food in 4 hours. Obviously, I am holding off on the 36 hour fast. I now really only have to lose 11 more pounds for my office weight loss challenge. However, I will probably cut deeper than that so that I can go into a slight surplus for awhile. Looks like I will probably be competing in April. Good to bulk into that.