High blood pressure thread

[mbasic]

I also took note that my resting heart rate was really high at 92. This was kind of surprising as even though I don’t “do” cardio I have a physical job where I’m on my feet and moving around, up and down ladders, etc. most of the day.

This seems no bueno ^.
Do you get any cardio/exercise? other than from lifting weights.

[MPat]

No cardio, I agree it’s pretty sucky, but I’m also not really a lazy bastard either. Cardio is probably my top priority at the moment since it should help the BP/HR numbers and help the weight lose thing

[Tommy1507]

Hi @MPat
how is your situation now? Die you manage your pressure?
I am also diagnosed with high blood pressure to my surprise. My waist is 90 cm (35,5 inches), i can run 10 km in 50 minutes, i don't smoke and drink and am only 27 years old.
It was diagnosed with a 24 hour device monitoring which measures the blood pressur every 15 minutes. I have to check it at a cardiologist and a kidney specialist if something else is causing this pressure.
This really sucks

[quikky]

I'll echo what others have said in regards to getting your waist circumference down. A 40" waist indicates too much body fat, which can be a driver of issues like hypertension.

I know for me, waist circumference is almost linearly connected to my total cholesterol. At my most DTP back in SS days, I was 222lb at 5'11", with a 40" waist, and my total cholesterol was about 220 (about 50 HDL and 60 trigs). I now hover at 200lbs give or take, with a waist of about 34.5", and my total cholesterol is 170, with an HDL and trigs of about 55. My BP at the highest waist would sometimes be about 135/78ish at the doc's office, which I would blame at the time on White Coat Syndrome. However, now, my BP is never above 125/72ish, even at the doc's office.

I would start with losing 5 inches off your waist as the #1 priority, ideally with some conditioning mixed in a few times a week, and see what happens. Even without the elevated BP I would not want to live with a 40" waist long-term, especially if you are only in your 30s.

[MPat]

Hi @MPat
how is your situation now? Die you manage your pressure?
I am also diagnosed with high blood pressure to my surprise. My waist is 90 cm (35,5 inches), i can run 10 km in 50 minutes, i don't smoke and drink and am only 27 years old.
It was diagnosed with a 24 hour device monitoring which measures the blood pressur every 15 minutes. I have to check it at a cardiologist and a kidney specialist if something else is causing this pressure.
This really sucks

Hi Tommy, I’m sorry to hear about your condition. I did manage to cut down to 190ish and 37” waist by April this year. My BP dropped to normal ranges, I was pretty pleased. I have relapsed a little after my 2nd child was born in May. Back up to 202 but my BP is on the boarder line level. I’m planning another cut here, in the coming week or 2.

You sound like a healthy young man, I don’t know if I can make any suggestions to help you exactly. Although I did start eating a lot of raw garlic every day. Not sure if it’s doing anything or not, kind of a on going experiment. Keep us up to date on your condition, good luck my friend.

[Tommy1507]

Nice to to hear that your BP-levels normalized after you cut down your waist circumference. Also good luck for you next cut. Hopefully it will lower the BP aswell.

Here is the data from my 24-hour BP-measurement.
https://www.directupload.net/file/d/603 ... nb_jpg.htm
It is surprising how high the levels are from waking up at 5:30am to going to bed at 9pm. I think the 24h-monitoring is the gold-standard in diagnosing, but I also think the device did restrict my normal life and made me definitely more nervous than normal. For example I was a little bit afraid if others hear the sound of the device and I thought I look silly when I had to let my left arm hang down when a measurement was taken.
Also I did never ever replicate such high BP when checking it at home with a solid device. My doctor prescribed 2,5 mg Ramipril per day. But I am not taking it till I met the cardiologist.
I am also curious if lowering my waist from 35,5 inches to 33 inches would help. But I just wait what my appointment at the cardiologist will show and don’t worry to much about the BP till then.

[MPat]

High BP runs in my family. My father is much larger then I am, he just took the meds and doesn’t worry about his health as Much. I’m pretty stubborn on not wanting to take meds. I’m going to do whatever I can to avoid that. Might not be the best course of action, time will tell

[Dutch]

Weight loss has been a big factor for me. I went from 130-140/70-80 to 111/62 which I just measured when I dropped from about 215 to 200 pounds@5'11. Now I'm pretty lean meaning I've got a hint of veins on my lower abs.
Besides lifting I walk about 8000 steps or so a day. My salt intake is actually pretty high since I eat a lot of bread but for dinner I use a blend with more KCI salt.

[Tommy1507]

Hey @Dutch , did you measure the change of your waist cirumference?
Nice and motivating to hear that even 7kg had such a big impact for you. That's about the amount i want to lose which should be about a 33 waist for me.

[Dutch]

I didn't have a before measurement, but I got 2 holes tighter on my lifting belt which is a little over 2 inches. I'm about a 34,5 inch waist now.

[Tommy1507]

I just had an appointment with my doctor regarding high blood pressure. She asked if i would take any perfomance enhancing substances. I was sure she meant steroids. Not that i am big guy by any means, which could be suspicious, but the look in her eyes was very intense and telling. I answered i take 3 grams creatine on a daily basis. She was shocked and told me i had to stop immediately. (When all those measurements were taken and higher blood pressure was found, i hadn't even begin to take it)
Creatine would destroy my body. The body isn't meant to get more of any nutrients than there are available in real foods. Those performance enhancing substances like creatine and protein powder would let the body go beyond it natural limitations. And this would destroy the body in the long term.
She said she was a competetive athlete when she was younger. She did Karate. And it would be quite common that you would lose touch with reality and live in your own bubble where you only want to perform better. But i have to think about the next 60 years which are in front of me and should make some serious lifestyle changes. She repeated that at least three times when we were talking.
I still don't know which lifestyle changes she means, but in my head i was already sure that i would not see her ever again. No protein powder, creatine and don't train intense?
So guess i have to look for a new doctor, but i haven't seen a general practitioner who lifts himself. Maybe i am just too ignorant and living in my creatine bubble and should listen to the doctor.

[Philbert]

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/10999421/
In this scenario, I would offer to take the physicians advice on bodyfat goals, medications, and aerobic activity on the condition that the physician defer on the topics of nutritional supplementation, resistance training, and total body mass. If she does not feel she can work with you on these terms then you need another doc.
I did not learn anything useable about nutrition during the 2-3 hours of nutrition lectures in medical school. Anything the average physician tells your about nutrition beyond "you need to eat less, and most of what you eat should be real food" is likely just their opinion.

[Culican]

Doctors can save your life and medicine can do things that would have been though miracles just a few years ago. Yet sometimes they can be so ignorant and full of shit.

[Hardartery]

I just had an appointment with my doctor regarding high blood pressure. She asked if i would take any perfomance enhancing substances. I was sure she meant steroids. Not that i am big guy by any means, which could be suspicious, but the look in her eyes was very intense and telling. I answered i take 3 grams creatine on a daily basis. She was shocked and told me i had to stop immediately. (When all those measurements were taken and higher blood pressure was found, i hadn't even begin to take it)
Creatine would destroy my body. The body isn't meant to get more of any nutrients than there are available in real foods. Those performance enhancing substances like creatine and protein powder would let the body go beyond it natural limitations. And this would destroy the body in the long term.
She said she was a competetive athlete when she was younger. She did Karate. And it would be quite common that you would lose touch with reality and live in your own bubble where you only want to perform better. But i have to think about the next 60 years which are in front of me and should make some serious lifestyle changes. She repeated that at least three times when we were talking.
I still don't know which lifestyle changes she means, but in my head i was already sure that i would not see her ever again. No protein powder, creatine and don't train intense?
So guess i have to look for a new doctor, but i haven't seen a general practitioner who lifts himself. Maybe i am just too ignorant and living in my creatine bubble and should listen to the doctor.

LOL. Given that creatine is given to heart patients to improve their cardio vascular condition, this is really funny. Are you sure it was a licensed doctor?

[Tommy1507]

@Hardartery
Yeah sadly this is real. The other doctor in this office (the thing were they practice idk how its called) also told me once to stop taking the proteinpowder, when i was completely fine.
They practice in a small village, so i guess they see more older, sedentary people. But even if they don't have contact with a population who lifts weight or does more intense sports, i find it very strange how you can have a so strong opinion that's not backed up at all. Makes me very suspicious and i would take their other statements with a grain of salt.

[Tommy1507]

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/10999421/
In this scenario, I would offer to take the physicians advice on bodyfat goals, medications, and aerobic activity on the condition that the physician defer on the topics of nutritional supplementation, resistance training, and total body mass. If she does not feel she can work with you on these terms then you need another doc.
I did not learn anything useable about nutrition during the 2-3 hours of nutrition lectures in medical school. Anything the average physician tells your about nutrition beyond "you need to eat less, and most of what you eat should be real food" is likely just their opinion.

I wasn't prepared for anything like that, but i am sure, i don't want to work with her anymore. I could make a new appointment and challenge her views, which i think would be the only right thing to do. But i don't think i am the right type of person for that nor that it would change anything. In her view i am just the brainless guy who just wants more and more muscles.
So you would say i tell her, i won't listen to her advices on nutrition and resistance training? I am meeting the other advices like aerobic activity and bodyfat (waist is around 84cm). To my surprise she commented on my BMI which is 27.7, that i am not fat and that the BMI doesn't take muscles in account.

[Culican]

Earlier in this thread I posted,

Doctors can save your life and medicine can do things that would have been though miracles just a few years ago. Yet sometimes they can be so ignorant and full of shit.

Right after I thought that maybe I had been a little too harsh and almost went back and deleted it.

Then today I see this on a site called, MedicalNewsToday: Is dry scooping dangerous?

I have no quarrels with them saying that too much caffeine or too much beta-phenethylamine might cause serious issues (probably more the latter than the caffeine) but they also put creatine in there.
"The dangers stem from several common ingredients. Aside from caffeine, these include beta-phenethylamine and creatine-monophosphate."

Allegedly this article was also "Last medically reviewed on February 27, 2022." I assume someone with an MD after their name did the reviewing.

So after this, I am going to double down on what I said about doctors.

[dw]

Feel the need to temper expectations a bit: at the population level, most lifestyle remedies have very modest effects. For example, the biggest meta analysis on exercise and BP (IIRC) estimates a ~5 mmHg systolic decrease on average with aerobic training, which is good — and maybe you’ll even be on the right end of the distribution and drop 10 — but best not to bank on huge changes. Similarly, reducing salt is unlike to change it more than a few mmHg unless you’re a salt sensitive person (genetic).

Obviously great to do these lifestyle things, but it’s important to know that they are often not enough for people whose BP is fairly high at baseline (particularly 140+). Hanleys aside, I guess.

I do concur with the notes above about being sure you’re measured correctly, eg after sitting for 5 minutes per AHA guidelines, and ambulatory monitoring at home if you really think Dr anxiety is playing into it. But absolutely take this seriously if the number is that high when measured correctly! It sounds like you are by seeking a cardiologist so kudos for that

I wonder though how true this is for people that have the tendency to get obsessed with fitness related goals.

I think a lot of people on this forum if they converted to cardio would take it more seriously and push themselves more than the general population that sprinkles a little bit of walking into their weekly routine.

Idk, I may just be projecting my own tendencies.

[Philbert]

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/10999421/
In this scenario, I would offer to take the physicians advice on bodyfat goals, medications, and aerobic activity on the condition that the physician defer on the topics of nutritional supplementation, resistance training, and total body mass. If she does not feel she can work with you on these terms then you need another doc.
I did not learn anything useable about nutrition during the 2-3 hours of nutrition lectures in medical school. Anything the average physician tells your about nutrition beyond "you need to eat less, and most of what you eat should be real food" is likely just their opinion.

I wasn't prepared for anything like that, but i am sure, i don't want to work with her anymore. I could make a new appointment and challenge her views, which i think would be the only right thing to do. But i don't think i am the right type of person for that nor that it would change anything. In her view i am just the brainless guy who just wants more and more muscles.
So you would say i tell her, i won't listen to her advices on nutrition and resistance training? I am meeting the other advices like aerobic activity and bodyfat (waist is around 84cm). To my surprise she commented on my BMI which is 27.7, that i am not fat and that the BMI doesn't take muscles in account.

That is what I suggest. You can also just ignore these things without making a confrontation of it. If she does not bring it up again that is probably a better approach.
One of the fundamental problems of modern medicine is that there is now so much knowledge and so many treatments that everyone is a specialist. Even the most generalist physician is a specialist in the medical treatment of the type of patients they most frequently see. Added to that, thousands of papers are published every year, and just sorting out the 10% or so of them which have any clinical value would be a full time job, much less reading and understanding them. It is way too easy to be overconfident and underinformed. Medical journalists feed into this problem by writing articles full of misinterpretation of study results and inaccurate language.

[Tommy1507]

Today i was training at work with a colleague. Hypertrophy 10-12 reps at machines. He told me he has never seen someone whose neck veins would press out like mine. And that those veins would get very big. I guess i look like the baraki meme. Pretty sure this kind of breathing is not even necessary for this and maybe should only applied for heavy lifts.
He proceed that this would be not good especially for the kidney, which could get damaged and lead to chronic elevated blood pressure.
Barbell medicince states out that weight training does not lead to chronic elevated bp, but only acute. And the valsalva manuver is safe regarding bp.
High bp was diagnosed one year after i started training. Of course this doesn't mean a correlation.

I am just curious if you could fuck up the valsalva maneuver or breathing while training to fuck up your bp. Or do too much valsalva even if it is not necessary.

I have minimized every else risk factor for bp.