Deadlift Problems

[5hout]

Long story short: I can pull 355 with straps (I am currently squatting 85lbs more than I DL, and the gap does not seem to be closing), but struggle mightily with deadlift consistency. I am super slow at setting up with straps, plus I would like to be able to total 1k in a powerlifting meet so need to learn to hook or mixed grip at least a heavy single. I've stopped trying to think about setup and instead decided just to squeeze really hard, take slack out of bar and stand up. On Wednesday I pulled a hook gripped single at 315, my first hook grip in about 2 months. Today I decided to do some light-ish volume, all hooked. It (more or less) fixed the grip issue, but I noticed the bar coming out in front of me on some of the reps.

In the past, when this has happened, I've fixed it by cue'ing "sit back on the pull", but given my utter lack of meaningful deadlift progress or confidence growth I figured time to seek some advice.

This might be too light to be a useful form check, but since my hook volume went from like nothing to all my deadlifts my thumbs were donezo the set after this. I'm assuming over time (as I become more used to it) this will decrease somewhat. Of course, I don't expect the hook grip to be pain free. My current plan is to pull all warm-ups hook and maybe 1 heavy set hook, then strap for volume. I squat

[mettkeks]

I like to pull singles across as top sets for a while at a time (SSPT type cycles). A lot of first reps without fatigue. Many opporturnities to fix a lot of stuff by feeling it out on the go, great for hook training too.

[Sumo]

Weight is too light, we can critique but once the weight gets sufficiently heavy things will change completely.

If I was to say anything though, at first glance the most obvious thing I see is lack of lat tightness which is causing the bar to get way from you.

Watch this, KMS doing their thing:


Regarding hook grip, and maybe this is a personal thing, unless you're into needless pain sets of triples is about as much punishment as one should take for hook, and I'm being generous. Ideally singles and doubles hook, and strap up for anything more than that. If you want to make sure grip doesn't become an issue use straps or mixed, if you're OK with it, for the majority of your sets and just pull hook for the last couple of your top sets. My take on this particular issue, and some may disagree, we put our bodies through enough pain and punishment why go out of our way for it though.

[5hout]

Thanks @Sumo and @mettkeks

I think that video/lack of lat tightness is a good call. One thing I like about squats is that once you've walked a heavy weight out there is no (imo) forgetting to be tight, if it's a legit pr or rpe 9.5 everything is tight or you can't have walked it out.

Will pull triples for warmups, hook and then a few singles and then strap for vol. Next day I have time to mess with vid will post a more legit set. Thanks again!

[Wilhelm]

I like to pull singles across as top sets for a while at a time (SSPT type cycles). A lot of first reps without fatigue. Many opporturnities to fix a lot of stuff by feeling it out on the go, great for hook training too.

I did that for a long time, and it worked great for learning my set up, and i also got stronger.
It stopped being enough volume eventually, but i ran it for a year and a half successfully.

Yeah, i don't have to think about my grip now, it's drilled in.
Used to pinch some skin at the base of my left thumb sometimes, not anymore.

I went from doh right to hook, and have never used mixed.

I tape my thumbs and do all my sets hook, even the MM scheme i use now.
I just use athletic tape i get in the first aid aisle at the grocery store.
1.5" wide, $3.99
In training i tape the whole thumb, overlapping the two strips, and in a meet i use one strip, and cover the middle of the thumb.
Fresh tape for each attempt.

To be fair, the SSPT singles had me taped up by default, and Montana Method has me hitting my top single first, so since i'm already taped, i just keep going for the sets of 4.

imo, you have to be thinking about form, and making little tweaks as your understanding of lifting grows.
It's funny how small some adjustments can be.

Like sumo said, that's probably too light to tell, but the bar jumps out instantly off the floor.
Just set up to where that doesn't happen.
When i watch my DL, i like to see my socks wrinkle as the bar goes up my shins.

[DCR]

As a programming suggestion, maybe look into any of Doug Hepburn’s variations. All are based around getting volume with low rep sets across near your top end. I’m currently running one in which those sets all are singles (I’m guessing similar to what @mettkeks mentioned) and would estimate that I’ve put at least 20 lbs. on my prior (unimpressive) max of 375, in just a few weeks. The reason I’m suggesting it is that it’s great in terms of being able to use the hook grip for all sets, with absolutely no need at all to add extra volume after the work sets.

[ChasingCurls69]

Cosigned the weight is too light to see anything but the bar coming off your shins. My usual cue for that is to bring your shoulders down towards hips as you pull your chest up to get tight. Given your proportions and squat:deadlift ratio, you might also benefit from pulling in socks/eventually get a pair of flat shoes for your meet.

[Particle]

Why do you pull in shoes with a heel?

[mettkeks]

I like to pull singles across as top sets for a while at a time (SSPT type cycles). A lot of first reps without fatigue. Many opporturnities to fix a lot of stuff by feeling it out on the go, great for hook training too.

It stopped being enough volume eventually

You're not supposed to just do the singles...

[Wilhelm]

I like to pull singles across as top sets for a while at a time (SSPT type cycles). A lot of first reps without fatigue. Many opporturnities to fix a lot of stuff by feeling it out on the go, great for hook training too.

It stopped being enough volume eventually

You're not supposed to just do the singles...

Yes, you are.
I got the template from SSPT

Starts with 15 with 30 seconds rest, and over 10 weeks goes up in weight, and down in reps, and rest can go up to 45 to 90 seconds.

I ran several cycles, and went from end of lp at 280 for 8 amrap, to a meet best at that time, of 441, before switching over to MM.
I used option 1 -

[mettkeks]

I like to pull singles across as top sets for a while at a time (SSPT type cycles). A lot of first reps without fatigue. Many opporturnities to fix a lot of stuff by feeling it out on the go, great for hook training too.

It stopped being enough volume eventually

You're not supposed to just do the singles...

Yes, you are.
I got the template from SSPT

Starts with 15 with 30 seconds rest, and over 10 weeks goes up in weight, and down in reps, and rest can go up to 45 to 90 seconds.

I ran several cycles, and went from end of lp at 280 for 8 amrap, to a meet best at that time, of 441, before switching over to MM.
I used option 1 -

Second paragraph beneath that table:

We train like we compete so most training sessions begin with squats and we always squat before deadlifting. The squat serves as a warm-up for the deadlift and prepares us for the rigors of game day. When using the once/week option above, the deadlifts are performed after a high-volume, medium-intensity squat. Later in the week, we’ll squat heavy immediately followed by a special deadlift assistance exercise based on our individual weaknesses. You’ll rarely see anyone at SSPT deadlifting with the opposite grip or stance. Our specific deadlift assistance exercises closely resemble the competition style deadlift and are most often trained in the one to three rep range but sometimes as high as four or five. We may select from deficit, halting (pause), rack/block (partials), Romanian deadlifts, or even add chains. These assistance deadlift moves are typically implemented via Rates of Perceived Exertion (RPE) or percentages (of our DL max) for three to four consecutive weeks over the course of a single training block. After using a special exercise for one block, we’ll switch it for another. Training sessions are occasionally finished with a non-specific (supplemental) posterior chain movement but always with some direct (weighted) abdominal work.

[Wilhelm]

All the comp reps are singles.
Never did any assistance DL work until SGDLs on MM.

This template works great as written, and is intended to be all singles for comp DL.
From low 300s to 441 @197 for a early intermediate doesn't suck.
That was Nov. 2018, and i had been lifting just under 2 years.
But i guess i wasn't supposed to do that.

[mettkeks]

All the comp reps are singles.
Never did any assistance DL work until SGDLs on MM.

This template works great as written, and is intended to be all singles for comp DL.
From low 300s to 441 @197 for a early intermediate doesn't suck.
That was Nov. 2018, and i had been lifting just under 2 years.
But i guess i wasn't supposed to do that.

Ähem:

It stopped being enough volume eventually

Just said you are supposed to do more in the first place, and pointed out that it was in the article you posted to prove me wrong.

[Wilhelm]

You're the one who hardline started this.
"Not supposed to..."
I was also comp LBBS squatting 3X week, and this worked great, and fatigue was kept in check.
This was my second meet, and i hit a 402 squat as well as a nice new max for my DL

But i guess i shouldn't think for myself.

As for you quoting me saying it was eventually not enough volume, that was after over a year doing this successfully.
It was clearly enough volume, and promoted strong progress.

Just said you are supposed to do more in the first place, and pointed out that it was in the article you posted to prove me wrong.

As far as proof goes, my results serve that function.
Even though i don't have the burden of proof here.

***Hmmm... Matt Gary and a gym full of elite lifters vs me with an awareness of my work capacity at the time.

Pretty sure i made the right call, and balanced my lifts well for my meets.
I have said in my log several times "i'm going to do this until it stops working", and that's exactly what i did.

It was a damn good run, too.

[5hout]

Why do you pull in shoes with a heel?

It was 15 degrees in my garage. Ran the heater to take the edge off, but doesn't do much for the floor .

Starts with 15 with 30 seconds rest, and over 10 weeks goes up in weight, and down in reps, and rest can go up to 45 to 90 seconds.

I ran several cycles, and went from end of lp at 280 for 8 amrap, to a meet best at that time, of 441, before switching over to MM.
I used option 1 -

That's a very interesting approach, if my current plan doesn't result in movement on my deadlift I'll have a try at that. If nothing else it will give me plenty of practice at pulling singles.

M: Rows
W: Triples to warm up, all hook. 1@8, 5x4x205 (going to do a ladder up at 205 on W and see how high it feels comfortable).
F: sgdl5x4xsomething, warm ups hooked, probably hook most of these as well. Can easily doh if I need to. Currently have a few more weeks of snatch grips, then doing an 8 week block of Friday as sldl.

Apart from more tightness in chest and I think the biggest thing is just pulling more, heavier.

[Wilhelm]

Regardless of the mettkeks/wilhelm spat, that approach will help you get good at singles, and as mettkeks mentioned, give plenty of opportunity to practice hook grip, if that's what you are using.

[chrisd]

So, just to hijack the thread, do you keep the same 1rm for 11 weeks and test out on week 12 ?

[Wilhelm]

So, just to hijack the thread, do you keep the same 1rm for 11 weeks and test out on week 12 ?

Test/meet is week 11
I had gotten to where i would significantly up the e1rm in like the first 6 or 7 weeks of the cycle, and bring it back down as i got the toward the end.
I don't recall the exact amounts.

If i had leftover weeks from the start of prep to a meet, i would just run those extra early weeks, and go back and do them again when doing so would make 10 week cycles fit the meet calendar.
Like mini volume block.

I think i'll be doing the more conventional style of top singles and worksets in MM for a long time to come.
I'm glad for the time doing these singles cycles though.

[chrisd]

So, just to hijack the thread, do you keep the same 1rm for 11 weeks and test out on week 12 ?

Test/meet is week 11
I had gotten to where i would significantly up the e1rm in like the first 6 or 7 weeks of the cycle, and bring it back down as i got the toward the end.
I don't recall the exact amounts.

If i had leftover weeks from the start of prep to a meet, i would just run those extra early weeks, and go back and do them again when doing so would make 10 week cycles fit the meet calendar.
Like mini volume block.

I think i'll be doing the more conventional style of top singles and worksets in MM for a long time to come.
I'm glad for the time doing these singles cycles though.

oopps, can't read. Sae 1rm for 10 weeks and test in 11. I've read the source material and they don't talk about progression during the ten weeks. Given that it's a peaking cycle for intermediates, I sort of assumed the idea is to peak, set a PR and base your next cycle on that.

[Wilhelm]

I sort of assumed the idea is to peak, set a PR and base your next cycle on that.

Yeah, that's how i read it too.

I ended up doing only slightly more at meets than i had hit in training.
Probably because i was setting the e1RM pretty high.

iirc, i was training with 475 e1RM when i was pulling 441/200kg at the meet.

It worked for me, because i could target my third attempt with a high probability of success.
And my goal for my total was met on my second pull for two of my three meets.

I may end up being less conservative at meets when i've done more of them, but so far i'm not a shoot for the moon on third attempts kind of guy.
I could have pulled more last meet, but i played it safe to recapture the M2 state record for total, because goals.

Looks like i had switched over to MM by then, but it was only for a coule of cycles at that point.
Man, i was set to crush my PR at the upcoming April meet, before taking an arrow to the knee getting a hernia.