Tip Toeing in my Vibrams

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Renascent
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Re: Tip Toeing in my Vibrams

#1721

Post by Renascent » Fri Apr 14, 2023 9:27 pm

(4.14.2023)
Deadlift
225 x 8
315 x 8
405 x 9
465 x 4 (PR?)
485 x 2
495 x 2 (PR)
505 x 1
405 x 3

Not sure if that was a PR at 405, but it doesn't really matter. I could've eked out a tenth rep, but wasn't really concerned with that particular "milestone" today. Just mostly wanted to see where things were at. Closing in on a 500+ double, but it wasn't happening today. That shit felt like a ton of bricks.

If things hold up for a while, I may just hunker down and carry out sets across at 465 for a couple of weeks, preferably for four or five reps.

I'd like a rep PR at five plates as soon as possible, but if I can pull off 535 by the summer, that'd be nice too.



Romanian Deadlift
315 x 8 x 5

Seated Reverse Calf Raises
70 x 35 x 8

Seated Cable Leg Curls
50 x 13 x 4
55 x 9 x 3
60 x 7 x 2

Standing Barbell Calf Raises
225 x 25 x 4
135 x 20 x 2

Cable Side Bends
50 x 12 x 3

Low-Pulley Face Pulls
50 x 12 x 4

MarkKO
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Re: Tip Toeing in my Vibrams

#1722

Post by MarkKO » Fri Apr 14, 2023 11:23 pm

Renascent wrote: Fri Apr 14, 2023 9:24 pm
MarkKO wrote: Fri Apr 14, 2023 5:15 pm Your arms look freaky in that DL video holy shit. No wonder your bench is where it's at.
I'll take the compliment, but the weird thing is that my lifting has become sporadic enough that I haven't been hammering the usual accessory stuff like I did in the recent past. Maybe there was some "novel" stimulus from the pull-ups earlier in the week?

As best as I could tell, my bench didn't really improve substantially until I started doing more dedicated lat work on a consistent basis. My bracing goes to shit when I've skipped too many row/pulldown sessions.
DCR wrote: Fri Apr 14, 2023 6:25 pm
MarkKO wrote: Fri Apr 14, 2023 5:15 pm Your arms look freaky in that DL video holy shit. No wonder your bench is where it's at.
For real. Further to our discussion upstairs. Pretty much gotta be jacked up to bench big weight.

Renascent, what’s particularly impressive in your case is that (as far as I know) you managed to build that without ever fat fucking yourself first.
I was at my all-time heaviest around this time last year -- 197 lbs or thereabout. Some of it was quite obviously fat, which I didn't mind at all. I've always been wary of increasing my grocery bill for the sake of seeing my lift totals increase, so weight gain has always been painfully slow and incremental, but we ate a lot of takeout for about a month before last summer.

MarkKO wrote: Fri Apr 14, 2023 7:33 pm
DCR wrote: Fri Apr 14, 2023 6:25 pm
MarkKO wrote: Fri Apr 14, 2023 5:15 pm Your arms look freaky in that DL video holy shit. No wonder your bench is where it's at.
For real. Further to our discussion upstairs. Pretty much gotta be jacked up to bench big weight.

Renascent, what’s particularly impressive in your case is that (as far as I know) you managed to build that without ever fat fucking yourself first.
This is my new favourite term for what I have previously done to myself.

I think there is going to come a point where I have to bite the bullet and train the living crap out of my arms.

It has become very important to me to keep up with Renascent on bench. I think I'm just about there but it's touch and go ATM.
I believe that's a phrase that was popularized by former Rippetoe adherents to describe the result of the overly enthusiastic consumption of whole milk and sheet cakes.

Pretty much all my reps are touch-and-go. Nothing against training pauses, but I don't compete (and hence all my PRs are effectively "gym PRs") and I suspect I lack the patience for a more thought-out approach to training. I get bored quickly with variations of the main lifts, and I probably lift more for mental gratification that anything else. Even vanity might be a distant second to the dopamine hit that comes from doing a thing I convince myself that I'm supposed to be doing, à la Sisyphus.



MarkKO wrote: Fri Apr 14, 2023 8:38 pm
DCR wrote: Fri Apr 14, 2023 8:06 pm
MarkKO wrote: Fri Apr 14, 2023 7:33 pm
DCR wrote: Fri Apr 14, 2023 6:25 pm
MarkKO wrote: Fri Apr 14, 2023 5:15 pm Your arms look freaky in that DL video holy shit. No wonder your bench is where it's at.
For real. Further to our discussion upstairs. Pretty much gotta be jacked up to bench big weight.

Renascent, what’s particularly impressive in your case is that (as far as I know) you managed to build that without ever fat fucking yourself first.
This is my new favourite term for what I have previously done to myself.

I think there is going to come a point where I have to bite the bullet and train the living crap out of my arms.
I’ve suspected that not doing this has been (one of) my problem(s) for some time. Jumping on this bench program involving some assistance (as opposed to just endlessly benching like an idiot) is a step in the right direction, I hope. In the past, the issue was that I could do compound upper body movements til I was blue in the face with no issue, but a little direct arm work and my elbows hated me. Hopefully I’ve learned a bit since then and can work into it.
It has become very important to me to keep up with Renascent on bench. I think I'm just about there but it's touch and go ATM.
Same haha. We’re the same height, he weighs a bit less than me, and yet he benches substantially more. Fucking guy.
I don't know what height difference we have, if any but I'm some 10-15 pounds heavier so yeah, I need to make sure I don't fall behind.

Let alone the time Renascent decides to start wearing a belt and then I'll need to watch my deadlift as well.
I'm somewhere between 5'6" and 5'7", last time I checked.

As for the belt thing, I'm not against giving it a shot to clear the four-plate squat goal, and then resuming work without it, similar to the typical approach that you mentioned previously. Buying one seems like a commitment, though, and sometimes I don't trust my own flightiness* (or stubborness?)...

*I still have a gorgeous neck harness somewhere in a bin that I never use, because I kept forgetting to buy a damn do-rag).
I would guess it's possible your sporadic approach let you recover that little bit better. You do a ton of work, so arguably dropping that could easily let your bench get a bit of a jump by virtue of the component parts being better recovered.

Well, that's my guess anyway.

A belt, or at any rate a good one is a commitment for sure. I'm just saying you're moving weights without a belt on the deadlift I don't generally touch unless the circumstances are very special. I just know if I'm comfortable pulling 500 pounds beltless regularly my belted pull is going to be pretty close to 600 pounds at the least.

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DCR
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Re: Tip Toeing in my Vibrams

#1723

Post by DCR » Sat Apr 15, 2023 10:02 am

Renascent wrote: Fri Apr 14, 2023 9:24 pm My bracing goes to shit when I've skipped too many row/pulldown sessions.
Yup. I have this program idea (that I’ll never do) where I put all lower body work on machines (to spare lower back) and spend a few weeks pushing bent over rows and bench as the main movements, in that order of priority but as a means of raising bench. I bet it would work.
Renascent wrote: Fri Apr 14, 2023 9:24 pm I was at my all-time heaviest around this time last year -- 197 lbs or thereabout. Some of it was quite obviously fat, which I didn't mind at all.
Now you’re just rubbing it in. I’m between 202-208 at any given time, lately more toward the latter, but carrying significantly more fat than you.
Renascent wrote: Fri Apr 14, 2023 9:24 pm I believe that's a phrase that was popularized by former Rippetoe adherents to describe the result of the overly enthusiastic consumption of whole milk and sheet cakes.
Correct, wasn’t mine. It does, however, accurately describe what I did.
Renascent wrote: Fri Apr 14, 2023 9:24 pm Pretty much all my reps are touch-and-go. Nothing against training pauses, but I don't compete (and hence all my PRs are effectively "gym PRs") and I suspect I lack the patience for a more thought-out approach to training. I get bored quickly with variations of the main lifts, and I probably lift more for mental gratification that anything else. Even vanity might be a distant second to the dopamine hit that comes from doing a thing I convince myself that I'm supposed to be doing, à la Sisyphus.
All precisely the same, and why I’ve never worn a belt or wraps. I do this because it’s what I do, and yeah vanity.

I nearly asked a few times what’s been your programming, as I’ve had a hard time picking it up beyond keep pushing (same) and a unique “all the parts / angles” approach.
MarkKO wrote: Fri Apr 14, 2023 11:23 pm A belt, or at any rate a good one is a commitment for sure. I'm just saying you're moving weights without a belt on the deadlift I don't generally touch unless the circumstances are very special. I just know if I'm comfortable pulling 500 pounds beltless regularly my belted pull is going to be pretty close to 600 pounds at the least.
Occurred to me that belt / no belt skews those bench ratios I posted upstairs. One reason for my bench being closer to my lower body lifts is that (I tell myself) each of the latter would be 50 or so pounds higher if I wore and learned to use a belt.

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Re: Tip Toeing in my Vibrams

#1724

Post by Hardartery » Sat Apr 15, 2023 10:45 am

DCR wrote: Sat Apr 15, 2023 10:02 am
Renascent wrote: Fri Apr 14, 2023 9:24 pm My bracing goes to shit when I've skipped too many row/pulldown sessions.
Yup. I have this program idea (that I’ll never do) where I put all lower body work on machines (to spare lower back) and spend a few weeks pushing bent over rows and bench as the main movements, in that order of priority but as a means of raising bench. I bet it would work.
Renascent wrote: Fri Apr 14, 2023 9:24 pm I was at my all-time heaviest around this time last year -- 197 lbs or thereabout. Some of it was quite obviously fat, which I didn't mind at all.
Now you’re just rubbing it in. I’m between 202-208 at any given time, lately more toward the latter, but carrying significantly more fat than you.
Renascent wrote: Fri Apr 14, 2023 9:24 pm I believe that's a phrase that was popularized by former Rippetoe adherents to describe the result of the overly enthusiastic consumption of whole milk and sheet cakes.
Correct, wasn’t mine. It does, however, accurately describe what I did.
Renascent wrote: Fri Apr 14, 2023 9:24 pm Pretty much all my reps are touch-and-go. Nothing against training pauses, but I don't compete (and hence all my PRs are effectively "gym PRs") and I suspect I lack the patience for a more thought-out approach to training. I get bored quickly with variations of the main lifts, and I probably lift more for mental gratification that anything else. Even vanity might be a distant second to the dopamine hit that comes from doing a thing I convince myself that I'm supposed to be doing, à la Sisyphus.
All precisely the same, and why I’ve never worn a belt or wraps. I do this because it’s what I do, and yeah vanity.

I nearly asked a few times what’s been your programming, as I’ve had a hard time picking it up beyond keep pushing (same) and a unique “all the parts / angles” approach.
MarkKO wrote: Fri Apr 14, 2023 11:23 pm A belt, or at any rate a good one is a commitment for sure. I'm just saying you're moving weights without a belt on the deadlift I don't generally touch unless the circumstances are very special. I just know if I'm comfortable pulling 500 pounds beltless regularly my belted pull is going to be pretty close to 600 pounds at the least.
Occurred to me that belt / no belt skews those bench ratios I posted upstairs. One reason for my bench being closer to my lower body lifts is that (I tell myself) each of the latter would be 50 or so pounds higher if I wore and learned to use a belt.
I would add that IME belt/no belt is not what people think. The bracing and setup are different with a belt, it is somewhat learned. If you have a good core, the belt will not give you much. People that get a lot from the belt are getting it because the core is the weak point in the lift for them, same as if grip is your weak point then adding straps makes a huge difference. I don't get anything positive from a belt at all, at least in part because I don't use one - so it just messes me up if I put one on. If I put in the time I might get a little out of it, but probably not a lot because it simply isn't propping up my limiting factor.

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Re: Tip Toeing in my Vibrams

#1725

Post by MarkKO » Sat Apr 15, 2023 4:37 pm

DCR wrote: Sat Apr 15, 2023 10:02 am
Renascent wrote: Fri Apr 14, 2023 9:24 pm My bracing goes to shit when I've skipped too many row/pulldown sessions.
Yup. I have this program idea (that I’ll never do) where I put all lower body work on machines (to spare lower back) and spend a few weeks pushing bent over rows and bench as the main movements, in that order of priority but as a means of raising bench. I bet it would work.
Renascent wrote: Fri Apr 14, 2023 9:24 pm I was at my all-time heaviest around this time last year -- 197 lbs or thereabout. Some of it was quite obviously fat, which I didn't mind at all.
Now you’re just rubbing it in. I’m between 202-208 at any given time, lately more toward the latter, but carrying significantly more fat than you.
Renascent wrote: Fri Apr 14, 2023 9:24 pm I believe that's a phrase that was popularized by former Rippetoe adherents to describe the result of the overly enthusiastic consumption of whole milk and sheet cakes.
Correct, wasn’t mine. It does, however, accurately describe what I did.
Renascent wrote: Fri Apr 14, 2023 9:24 pm Pretty much all my reps are touch-and-go. Nothing against training pauses, but I don't compete (and hence all my PRs are effectively "gym PRs") and I suspect I lack the patience for a more thought-out approach to training. I get bored quickly with variations of the main lifts, and I probably lift more for mental gratification that anything else. Even vanity might be a distant second to the dopamine hit that comes from doing a thing I convince myself that I'm supposed to be doing, à la Sisyphus.
All precisely the same, and why I’ve never worn a belt or wraps. I do this because it’s what I do, and yeah vanity.

I nearly asked a few times what’s been your programming, as I’ve had a hard time picking it up beyond keep pushing (same) and a unique “all the parts / angles” approach.
MarkKO wrote: Fri Apr 14, 2023 11:23 pm A belt, or at any rate a good one is a commitment for sure. I'm just saying you're moving weights without a belt on the deadlift I don't generally touch unless the circumstances are very special. I just know if I'm comfortable pulling 500 pounds beltless regularly my belted pull is going to be pretty close to 600 pounds at the least.
Occurred to me that belt / no belt skews those bench ratios I posted upstairs. One reason for my bench being closer to my lower body lifts is that (I tell myself) each of the latter would be 50 or so pounds higher if I wore and learned to use a belt.
Yes, that would skew the ratio somewhat.

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Re: Tip Toeing in my Vibrams

#1726

Post by MarkKO » Sat Apr 15, 2023 4:40 pm

Hardartery wrote: Sat Apr 15, 2023 10:45 am
DCR wrote: Sat Apr 15, 2023 10:02 am
Renascent wrote: Fri Apr 14, 2023 9:24 pm My bracing goes to shit when I've skipped too many row/pulldown sessions.
Yup. I have this program idea (that I’ll never do) where I put all lower body work on machines (to spare lower back) and spend a few weeks pushing bent over rows and bench as the main movements, in that order of priority but as a means of raising bench. I bet it would work.
Renascent wrote: Fri Apr 14, 2023 9:24 pm I was at my all-time heaviest around this time last year -- 197 lbs or thereabout. Some of it was quite obviously fat, which I didn't mind at all.
Now you’re just rubbing it in. I’m between 202-208 at any given time, lately more toward the latter, but carrying significantly more fat than you.
Renascent wrote: Fri Apr 14, 2023 9:24 pm I believe that's a phrase that was popularized by former Rippetoe adherents to describe the result of the overly enthusiastic consumption of whole milk and sheet cakes.
Correct, wasn’t mine. It does, however, accurately describe what I did.
Renascent wrote: Fri Apr 14, 2023 9:24 pm Pretty much all my reps are touch-and-go. Nothing against training pauses, but I don't compete (and hence all my PRs are effectively "gym PRs") and I suspect I lack the patience for a more thought-out approach to training. I get bored quickly with variations of the main lifts, and I probably lift more for mental gratification that anything else. Even vanity might be a distant second to the dopamine hit that comes from doing a thing I convince myself that I'm supposed to be doing, à la Sisyphus.
All precisely the same, and why I’ve never worn a belt or wraps. I do this because it’s what I do, and yeah vanity.

I nearly asked a few times what’s been your programming, as I’ve had a hard time picking it up beyond keep pushing (same) and a unique “all the parts / angles” approach.
MarkKO wrote: Fri Apr 14, 2023 11:23 pm A belt, or at any rate a good one is a commitment for sure. I'm just saying you're moving weights without a belt on the deadlift I don't generally touch unless the circumstances are very special. I just know if I'm comfortable pulling 500 pounds beltless regularly my belted pull is going to be pretty close to 600 pounds at the least.
Occurred to me that belt / no belt skews those bench ratios I posted upstairs. One reason for my bench being closer to my lower body lifts is that (I tell myself) each of the latter would be 50 or so pounds higher if I wore and learned to use a belt.
I would add that IME belt/no belt is not what people think. The bracing and setup are different with a belt, it is somewhat learned. If you have a good core, the belt will not give you much. People that get a lot from the belt are getting it because the core is the weak point in the lift for them, same as if grip is your weak point then adding straps makes a huge difference. I don't get anything positive from a belt at all, at least in part because I don't use one - so it just messes me up if I put one on. If I put in the time I might get a little out of it, but probably not a lot because it simply isn't propping up my limiting factor.
I can absolutely see that for deadlifts for some people. Not sure for squats. I know I get a bunch out of my belt on both squat and DL, although I could just have a very weak midsection relative to everything else.

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Re: Tip Toeing in my Vibrams

#1727

Post by Hardartery » Sat Apr 15, 2023 5:15 pm

MarkKO wrote: Sat Apr 15, 2023 4:40 pm
Hardartery wrote: Sat Apr 15, 2023 10:45 am
DCR wrote: Sat Apr 15, 2023 10:02 am
Renascent wrote: Fri Apr 14, 2023 9:24 pm My bracing goes to shit when I've skipped too many row/pulldown sessions.
Yup. I have this program idea (that I’ll never do) where I put all lower body work on machines (to spare lower back) and spend a few weeks pushing bent over rows and bench as the main movements, in that order of priority but as a means of raising bench. I bet it would work.
Renascent wrote: Fri Apr 14, 2023 9:24 pm I was at my all-time heaviest around this time last year -- 197 lbs or thereabout. Some of it was quite obviously fat, which I didn't mind at all.
Now you’re just rubbing it in. I’m between 202-208 at any given time, lately more toward the latter, but carrying significantly more fat than you.
Renascent wrote: Fri Apr 14, 2023 9:24 pm I believe that's a phrase that was popularized by former Rippetoe adherents to describe the result of the overly enthusiastic consumption of whole milk and sheet cakes.
Correct, wasn’t mine. It does, however, accurately describe what I did.
Renascent wrote: Fri Apr 14, 2023 9:24 pm Pretty much all my reps are touch-and-go. Nothing against training pauses, but I don't compete (and hence all my PRs are effectively "gym PRs") and I suspect I lack the patience for a more thought-out approach to training. I get bored quickly with variations of the main lifts, and I probably lift more for mental gratification that anything else. Even vanity might be a distant second to the dopamine hit that comes from doing a thing I convince myself that I'm supposed to be doing, à la Sisyphus.
All precisely the same, and why I’ve never worn a belt or wraps. I do this because it’s what I do, and yeah vanity.

I nearly asked a few times what’s been your programming, as I’ve had a hard time picking it up beyond keep pushing (same) and a unique “all the parts / angles” approach.
MarkKO wrote: Fri Apr 14, 2023 11:23 pm A belt, or at any rate a good one is a commitment for sure. I'm just saying you're moving weights without a belt on the deadlift I don't generally touch unless the circumstances are very special. I just know if I'm comfortable pulling 500 pounds beltless regularly my belted pull is going to be pretty close to 600 pounds at the least.
Occurred to me that belt / no belt skews those bench ratios I posted upstairs. One reason for my bench being closer to my lower body lifts is that (I tell myself) each of the latter would be 50 or so pounds higher if I wore and learned to use a belt.
I would add that IME belt/no belt is not what people think. The bracing and setup are different with a belt, it is somewhat learned. If you have a good core, the belt will not give you much. People that get a lot from the belt are getting it because the core is the weak point in the lift for them, same as if grip is your weak point then adding straps makes a huge difference. I don't get anything positive from a belt at all, at least in part because I don't use one - so it just messes me up if I put one on. If I put in the time I might get a little out of it, but probably not a lot because it simply isn't propping up my limiting factor.
I can absolutely see that for deadlifts for some people. Not sure for squats. I know I get a bunch out of my belt on both squat and DL, although I could just have a very weak midsection relative to everything else.
I find it extremely disappointing. I was hoping for "Out of the box" improvements to those lifts with a belt and they did not materialize. Annoying.

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Re: Tip Toeing in my Vibrams

#1728

Post by MarkKO » Sat Apr 15, 2023 5:40 pm

Hardartery wrote: Sat Apr 15, 2023 5:15 pm
MarkKO wrote: Sat Apr 15, 2023 4:40 pm
Hardartery wrote: Sat Apr 15, 2023 10:45 am
DCR wrote: Sat Apr 15, 2023 10:02 am
Renascent wrote: Fri Apr 14, 2023 9:24 pm My bracing goes to shit when I've skipped too many row/pulldown sessions.
Yup. I have this program idea (that I’ll never do) where I put all lower body work on machines (to spare lower back) and spend a few weeks pushing bent over rows and bench as the main movements, in that order of priority but as a means of raising bench. I bet it would work.
Renascent wrote: Fri Apr 14, 2023 9:24 pm I was at my all-time heaviest around this time last year -- 197 lbs or thereabout. Some of it was quite obviously fat, which I didn't mind at all.
Now you’re just rubbing it in. I’m between 202-208 at any given time, lately more toward the latter, but carrying significantly more fat than you.
Renascent wrote: Fri Apr 14, 2023 9:24 pm I believe that's a phrase that was popularized by former Rippetoe adherents to describe the result of the overly enthusiastic consumption of whole milk and sheet cakes.
Correct, wasn’t mine. It does, however, accurately describe what I did.
Renascent wrote: Fri Apr 14, 2023 9:24 pm Pretty much all my reps are touch-and-go. Nothing against training pauses, but I don't compete (and hence all my PRs are effectively "gym PRs") and I suspect I lack the patience for a more thought-out approach to training. I get bored quickly with variations of the main lifts, and I probably lift more for mental gratification that anything else. Even vanity might be a distant second to the dopamine hit that comes from doing a thing I convince myself that I'm supposed to be doing, à la Sisyphus.
All precisely the same, and why I’ve never worn a belt or wraps. I do this because it’s what I do, and yeah vanity.

I nearly asked a few times what’s been your programming, as I’ve had a hard time picking it up beyond keep pushing (same) and a unique “all the parts / angles” approach.
MarkKO wrote: Fri Apr 14, 2023 11:23 pm A belt, or at any rate a good one is a commitment for sure. I'm just saying you're moving weights without a belt on the deadlift I don't generally touch unless the circumstances are very special. I just know if I'm comfortable pulling 500 pounds beltless regularly my belted pull is going to be pretty close to 600 pounds at the least.
Occurred to me that belt / no belt skews those bench ratios I posted upstairs. One reason for my bench being closer to my lower body lifts is that (I tell myself) each of the latter would be 50 or so pounds higher if I wore and learned to use a belt.
I would add that IME belt/no belt is not what people think. The bracing and setup are different with a belt, it is somewhat learned. If you have a good core, the belt will not give you much. People that get a lot from the belt are getting it because the core is the weak point in the lift for them, same as if grip is your weak point then adding straps makes a huge difference. I don't get anything positive from a belt at all, at least in part because I don't use one - so it just messes me up if I put one on. If I put in the time I might get a little out of it, but probably not a lot because it simply isn't propping up my limiting factor.
I can absolutely see that for deadlifts for some people. Not sure for squats. I know I get a bunch out of my belt on both squat and DL, although I could just have a very weak midsection relative to everything else.
I find it extremely disappointing. I was hoping for "Out of the box" improvements to those lifts with a belt and they did not materialize. Annoying.
I definitely know some people who don't get jack out of a belt. I'm also definitely not one of them. Maybe there's some common anatomical feature people who don't find belts useful share?

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Re: Tip Toeing in my Vibrams

#1729

Post by Renascent » Sat Apr 15, 2023 7:46 pm

DCR wrote: Sat Apr 15, 2023 10:02 am
Renascent wrote: Fri Apr 14, 2023 9:24 pm My bracing goes to shit when I've skipped too many row/pulldown sessions.
Yup. I have this program idea (that I’ll never do) where I put all lower body work on machines (to spare lower back) and spend a few weeks pushing bent over rows and bench as the main movements, in that order of priority but as a means of raising bench. I bet it would work.
Yeah, there's just something about bent-over rows...

I used to stick with seated rows in the commercial gyms for the sake of time (doing alternating sets while bench pressing if the place was empty -- which it usually was), and because the barbell variation would always annoy my TFL eventually. Never saw much growth from Pendlay rows because of the lack of TUT. I suspect a slow eccentric is a very important growth factor.

Ended up having to go back to barbell rows at home in 2020, before I figured out my pulley setup for the seated versions, and finally saw a payoff. Larger lats, better bracing on the bench, and sometimes they're just fucking fun to do.

Ironically, the few times I've done seated rows at home (to spare my lower back) I've ended up with a hell of a pump, totally unlike what I used to get at the gym with a heavier weight.

As for the idea of using machines for lower-body maintenance, I must begrudgingly admit that MarkKO was right about the drop-off in strength being somewhat negligible in the absence of using the "main" movements on a regular basis; I've gotten away with some admittedly annoying disruptions in training lately by eating and sleeping reasonably well, along with leg extensions, split squats, and impromptu core shit. Definitely forces me to rethink my natural approach to things as a whole.

@Hardartery, @MarkKO: I guess the other, more important aspect to the "commitment" of buying a belt is having the patience to learn to use it. Generally, I prefer to lift as "naked" as possible, for various reasons, but I do suspect that I'd likely get some measurable benefits out of a belt.

I just loathe the idea of taking the time to figure the shit out.

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Re: Tip Toeing in my Vibrams

#1730

Post by Renascent » Sat Apr 15, 2023 7:48 pm

(4.15.2023)
Bench Press
135 x 12
225 x 12
275 x 5 x 3
295 x 3 x 3
315 x 2 x 2
320 x 1 x 2
325 x 1
275 x 3 x 2
225 x 6



Kneeling Face Pulls
55 x 12 x 6

Weighted Neck Curls
35 x 30 x 2
40 x 22 x 2

Cable Hip Adduction
35 x 12 x 4

Single-Arm Cable Rear Delt Flyes
30 x 12 x 5

Single-Arm Cable Y-Raise
20 x 10 x 3

Single-Leg Lying Cable Knee Raise
40 x 14 x 4

Wasn't fully committed to doing any lifting at all today. Was supposed to take the boy to a birthday party at a megachurch (they have a bowling alley and a skating rink, apparently), but luckily heavy rain was in the forecast along with flood warnings, so that outing got nixed. Figured I'd make the most of my free time and split what would've been tomorrow's session in half.

Also, there's something about the production on Death's early albums that really agrees with me; "Open Casket" sounds fucking wonderful coming from the stock speakers in my car. Only ran half of my usual weekend errands today, but those drums made the drive quite enjoyable.

MarkKO
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Re: Tip Toeing in my Vibrams

#1731

Post by MarkKO » Sat Apr 15, 2023 9:21 pm

Renascent wrote: Sat Apr 15, 2023 7:46 pm
DCR wrote: Sat Apr 15, 2023 10:02 am
Renascent wrote: Fri Apr 14, 2023 9:24 pm My bracing goes to shit when I've skipped too many row/pulldown sessions.
Yup. I have this program idea (that I’ll never do) where I put all lower body work on machines (to spare lower back) and spend a few weeks pushing bent over rows and bench as the main movements, in that order of priority but as a means of raising bench. I bet it would work.
Yeah, there's just something about bent-over rows...

I used to stick with seated rows in the commercial gyms for the sake of time (doing alternating sets while bench pressing if the place was empty -- which it usually was), and because the barbell variation would always annoy my TFL eventually. Never saw much growth from Pendlay rows because of the lack of TUT. I suspect a slow eccentric is a very important growth factor.

Ended up having to go back to barbell rows at home in 2020, before I figured out my pulley setup for the seated versions, and finally saw a payoff. Larger lats, better bracing on the bench, and sometimes they're just fucking fun to do.

Ironically, the few times I've done seated rows at home (to spare my lower back) I've ended up with a hell of a pump, totally unlike what I used to get at the gym with a heavier weight.

As for the idea of using machines for lower-body maintenance, I must begrudgingly admit that MarkKO was right about the drop-off in strength being somewhat negligible in the absence of using the "main" movements on a regular basis; I've gotten away with some admittedly annoying disruptions in training lately by eating and sleeping reasonably well, along with leg extensions, split squats, and impromptu core shit. Definitely forces me to rethink my natural approach to things as a whole.

Hardartery, MarkKO: I guess the other, more important aspect to the "commitment" of buying a belt is having the patience to learn to use it. Generally, I prefer to lift as "naked" as possible, for various reasons, but I do suspect that I'd likely get some measurable benefits out of a belt.

I just loathe the idea of taking the time to figure the shit out.
I can understand that. It's a shame you can't somehow get hold of belt to try out.

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Re: Tip Toeing in my Vibrams

#1732

Post by Renascent » Sun Apr 16, 2023 6:59 pm

DCR wrote: Sat Apr 15, 2023 10:02 amI nearly asked a few times what’s been your programming, as I’ve had a hard time picking it up beyond keep pushing (same) and a unique “all the parts / angles” approach.
I don't know if I can or should call what I do "programming," to be honest.

I've never followed a tried-and-true program. Mostly bastardized bro-splits to accommodate my relatively lowly goals and aversion to high-risk behaviors.

For the past two and a half years or so, it's been something like:
Day 1: Bench/Upper back accessories/Lat stuff
Day 2: OHP/Triceps/Traps
Day 3: Squat/Deadlift/Hamstring accessories (hip extension movement & knee flexion movement/calves
And repeat. Rest days as needed; core work, hip shit, and rear delt stuff wherever I can fit it in.

Pre-pandemic, it was (basically):
Day 1: Bench/OHP/Arms, with alternating sets of rows and pullups during the main lifts
Day 2: Squat/Deadlift/RDLs/Nordic Curls
Day 3: Rest
Repeat, and sometimes deadlift on Saturdays at the Y with an unofficial gym partner.

Lately, I've enjoyed squatting and deadlifting on separate days because I have more time to incorporate dedicated rectus femoris work. Since I've been lifting at home, I have the most "free" time on Tuesdays, so that's normally when I prefer to do lower body shit. When it's time to repeat the cycle later in the week, though, I like squatting on Friday and doing my pull shit on Saturdays, assuming I don't have a lot of yard work to do.

Pyramid sets, ladder sets, and alternating sets (once the main lifts are completed). Sets across if I'm trying to regain some lost ground from a layoff, or if I just feel shitty in general. I try to keep the bulk of the actual work within the 80 to 90 percent range, depending on how froggy I feel. Long-ass warmup sets, because sometimes everything feels off until the last few work sets. I'm not one of those people who can usually just do one to three reps of warmup weights and then dive right into the meat (of course this makes fatigue management a little tricky).

Test maxes maybe twice a year or so, depending on whether or not I've been trying to overcome any particular muscular imbalance.

Right now, I'm experimenting with the idea of simply being more flexible with scheduling shit. Life's been wild -- a far cry from the banner year that was 2020.
MarkKO wrote: Sat Apr 15, 2023 9:21 pmI can understand that. It's a shame you can't somehow get hold of belt to try out.
I know a guy -- a local coach who used to train powerlifters at the high school level -- who probably still has one, but I'm not keen on the idea of reconnecting with him.

My world gets smaller every day. :lol:

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Re: Tip Toeing in my Vibrams

#1733

Post by Renascent » Sun Apr 16, 2023 7:04 pm

(4.16.2023)
Barbell Hang Rows
225 x 12 (Pronated)
225 x 12 (Supinated)
255 x 10 (Pronated)
255 x 10 (Supinated)
275 x 6 x 2 (Pronated)
275 x 6 x 2 (Supinated)

Landmine T-Bar Rows
200 x 10 x 8

Kneeling Single-Arm Iliac Pulldown
60 x 12 x 2
70 x 9 x 2
75 x 7 x 2

Weighted Sisy Squats
25 x 12 x 2
35 x 10 x 2
45 x 8 x 2

Dumbbell Pullovers
70 x 10 x 3

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Re: Tip Toeing in my Vibrams

#1734

Post by MarkKO » Sun Apr 16, 2023 8:15 pm

Renascent wrote: Sun Apr 16, 2023 6:59 pm
DCR wrote: Sat Apr 15, 2023 10:02 amI nearly asked a few times what’s been your programming, as I’ve had a hard time picking it up beyond keep pushing (same) and a unique “all the parts / angles” approach.
I don't know if I can or should call what I do "programming," to be honest.

I've never followed a tried-and-true program. Mostly bastardized bro-splits to accommodate my relatively lowly goals and aversion to high-risk behaviors.

For the past two and a half years or so, it's been something like:
Day 1: Bench/Upper back accessories/Lat stuff
Day 2: OHP/Triceps/Traps
Day 3: Squat/Deadlift/Hamstring accessories (hip extension movement & knee flexion movement/calves
And repeat. Rest days as needed; core work, hip shit, and rear delt stuff wherever I can fit it in.

Pre-pandemic, it was (basically):
Day 1: Bench/OHP/Arms, with alternating sets of rows and pullups during the main lifts
Day 2: Squat/Deadlift/RDLs/Nordic Curls
Day 3: Rest
Repeat, and sometimes deadlift on Saturdays at the Y with an unofficial gym partner.

Lately, I've enjoyed squatting and deadlifting on separate days because I have more time to incorporate dedicated rectus femoris work. Since I've been lifting at home, I have the most "free" time on Tuesdays, so that's normally when I prefer to do lower body shit. When it's time to repeat the cycle later in the week, though, I like squatting on Friday and doing my pull shit on Saturdays, assuming I don't have a lot of yard work to do.

Pyramid sets, ladder sets, and alternating sets (once the main lifts are completed). Sets across if I'm trying to regain some lost ground from a layoff, or if I just feel shitty in general. I try to keep the bulk of the actual work within the 80 to 90 percent range, depending on how froggy I feel. Long-ass warmup sets, because sometimes everything feels off until the last few work sets. I'm not one of those people who can usually just do one to three reps of warmup weights and then dive right into the meat (of course this makes fatigue management a little tricky).

Test maxes maybe twice a year or so, depending on whether or not I've been trying to overcome any particular muscular imbalance.

Right now, I'm experimenting with the idea of simply being more flexible with scheduling shit. Life's been wild -- a far cry from the banner year that was 2020.
MarkKO wrote: Sat Apr 15, 2023 9:21 pmI can understand that. It's a shame you can't somehow get hold of belt to try out.
I know a guy -- a local coach who used to train powerlifters at the high school level -- who probably still has one, but I'm not keen on the idea of reconnecting with him.

My world gets smaller every day. :lol:
Had I a spare belt that would fit you I would be tempted to send it over

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Re: Tip Toeing in my Vibrams

#1735

Post by DCR » Mon Apr 17, 2023 8:00 pm

Renascent wrote: Sun Apr 16, 2023 6:59 pm
DCR wrote: Sat Apr 15, 2023 10:02 amI nearly asked a few times what’s been your programming, as I’ve had a hard time picking it up beyond keep pushing (same) and a unique “all the parts / angles” approach.
I don't know if I can or should call what I do "programming," to be honest.

I've never followed a tried-and-true program. Mostly bastardized bro-splits to accommodate my relatively lowly goals and aversion to high-risk behaviors.

For the past two and a half years or so, it's been something like:
Day 1: Bench/Upper back accessories/Lat stuff
Day 2: OHP/Triceps/Traps
Day 3: Squat/Deadlift/Hamstring accessories (hip extension movement & knee flexion movement/calves
And repeat. Rest days as needed; core work, hip shit, and rear delt stuff wherever I can fit it in.

Pre-pandemic, it was (basically):
Day 1: Bench/OHP/Arms, with alternating sets of rows and pullups during the main lifts
Day 2: Squat/Deadlift/RDLs/Nordic Curls
Day 3: Rest
Repeat, and sometimes deadlift on Saturdays at the Y with an unofficial gym partner.

Lately, I've enjoyed squatting and deadlifting on separate days because I have more time to incorporate dedicated rectus femoris work. Since I've been lifting at home, I have the most "free" time on Tuesdays, so that's normally when I prefer to do lower body shit. When it's time to repeat the cycle later in the week, though, I like squatting on Friday and doing my pull shit on Saturdays, assuming I don't have a lot of yard work to do.

Pyramid sets, ladder sets, and alternating sets (once the main lifts are completed). Sets across if I'm trying to regain some lost ground from a layoff, or if I just feel shitty in general. I try to keep the bulk of the actual work within the 80 to 90 percent range, depending on how froggy I feel. Long-ass warmup sets, because sometimes everything feels off until the last few work sets. I'm not one of those people who can usually just do one to three reps of warmup weights and then dive right into the meat (of course this makes fatigue management a little tricky).

Test maxes maybe twice a year or so, depending on whether or not I've been trying to overcome any particular muscular imbalance.

Right now, I'm experimenting with the idea of simply being more flexible with scheduling shit. Life's been wild -- a far cry from the banner year that was 2020.
As you may have noticed, big same with the bolded section. I love the idea of working up in triples. In practice, leaves me ice cold.

I also have had some success with using ever increasing work ups to “bump” up the top end stuff. I’ve consistently been told that that’s ass backward, but it’s worked for me. Well, relative to my modest numbers anyway.

Anyway, thank you for typing this all up. In terms of progression, is it just a matter of adding reps / weight when you feel it’s there, i.e. you’re not working off any particular criteria for “this is when I add”?
Last edited by DCR on Mon Apr 17, 2023 10:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Tip Toeing in my Vibrams

#1736

Post by Renascent » Mon Apr 17, 2023 8:26 pm

DCR wrote: Mon Apr 17, 2023 8:00 pmIn terms of progression, is it just a matter of adding reps / weight when you feel it’s there, i.e. you’re not working off any particular criteria for “this is when I add”?
Pretty much.

Despite the amount of time I'm able to devote to lifting, life's usually too unpredictable for me to commit to setting a date or plan a peak properly to attempt a max.

Most of the year is spent in "maintenance," save for small spurts of hope when progress seems within reach.

Lately it seems that all the getting's been in the accessory shit.

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Re: Tip Toeing in my Vibrams

#1737

Post by Renascent » Mon Apr 17, 2023 9:33 pm

(4.17.2023)
Overhead Press
165 x 8 x 2
175 x 6 x 2
185 x 4 x 3
195 x 3 x 3
205 x 2 x 2



Yazmin Press
195 x 6 x 6
205 x 4 x 3

Rope Pushdowns
80 x 12 x 4
85 x 8 x 2

Barbell Hang Shrugs
315 x 20 x 4

Overhead RTEs
85 x 10 x 6

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Re: Tip Toeing in my Vibrams

#1738

Post by Renascent » Tue Apr 18, 2023 7:58 pm

(4.18.2023)
High-Bar Squats
225 x 9 x 2
275 x 7 x 2
325 x 3 x 6
295 x 4 x 2
275 x 4 x 2



Deadlift
225 x 8
315 x 8
405 x 8
465 x 3 x 3
485 x 1 x 2



Barbell Good Mornings
185 x 7 x 10

Seated Reverse Calf Raises
75 x 35 x 8

Seated Cable Leg Curls
50 x 12 x 5
55 x 8 x 4

Lying Cable Knee Raise
75 x 12 x 4

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Re: Tip Toeing in my Vibrams

#1739

Post by Renascent » Wed Apr 19, 2023 7:48 pm

(4.19.2023)
Bilateral Dumbbell Split Squats
70 x 7 x 7

Barbell Seated Calf Raises
225 x 30 x 5

Low-Cable Face Pulls
55 x 12 x 4

Weighted Sisy Squats
45 x 10 x 4

Lying Cable Knee Raise
80 x 12 x 4

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Re: Tip Toeing in my Vibrams

#1740

Post by Renascent » Thu Apr 20, 2023 7:11 pm

(4.20.2023)
Bench Press
135 x 12
225 x 12
275 x 5 x 3
295 x 3 x 5
225 x 7 x 2



(Evening)
Barbell Hang Rows
225 x 12 (Pronated)
225 x 12 (Supinated)
255 x 9 (Pronated)
255 x 9 (Supinated)
275 x 6 x 2 (Pronated)
275 x 6 x 2 (Supinated)

Single-Arm Cable Rear Delt Flyes
30 x 12 x 3
35 x 8 x 3

Kneeling Oblique Cable Crunch
60 x 12 x 3

Kneeling Face Pulls
60 x 15 x 2
65 x 12 x 2

Getting up early to bench press pretty much backfired. Probably got spotted falling asleep a few times in an afternoon meeting, and was much too tired for T-bar rows, which I'll do tomorrow.

A stranger from another floor at work asked if I was a "fighter" or a "boxer." I couldn't think of a response, aside from laughing it off and telling her that I was not. Normally I try to be a little quicker on the draw and come up with something self-deprecating and (hopefully) humorous, but didn't have it in me.

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