Gillingham 2 day 12wk Bench Program

[Wilhelm]

Well, i've benched 3X to 4X a week for my whole training life, and have been 1RM stuck for going on 2 years including a 3.5 month forced layoff from all lifting.
Might give this a try just because i'm hating bench so much at this point i'd be fine going to 2 days.
Especially if the worst that happens is i remain stuck but spend fewer days doing so.

https://marylandpowerlifting.com/lifter ... ham-bench/

http://benchprogram.com/

[AllM1ght]

I like the layout, would be concerned about lack of assistance personally though.

[Wilhelm]

I like the layout, would be concerned about lack of assistance personally though.

Good to know it looks solid to someone.
Thanks for commenting.

With a 2 day scheme, i would add my dips back in.
I know those are debatable as assistance, but they made my upper pecs and shoulders grow.
I think i did 5 months with them after coming off my layoff, and dropped them a couple of months ago as my overall workload and absolute weight on main lifts increased.
Kept my pullups in, which i know aren't bench assistance.

I don't have dumbbells, but was mulling over adding pushups to my plan.
I'll start with dips though, and move to weighted after some bodyweight sessions.

[AllM1ght]

I like the layout, would be concerned about lack of assistance personally though.

Good to know it looks solid to someone.
Thanks for commenting.

With a 2 day scheme, i would add my dips back in.
I know those are debatable as assistance, but they made my upper pecs and shoulders grow.
I think i did 5 months with them after coming off my layoff, and dropped them a couple of months ago as my overall workload and absolute weight on main lifts increased.
Kept my pullups in, which i know aren't bench assistance.

I don't have dumbbells, but was mulling over adding pushups to my plan.
I'll start with dips though, and move to weighted after some bodyweight sessions.

Dips would be cool if I could do them I would. Hypertrophy always helps.

I was more thinking, close grip, long pause, tempo, pin when I said assistance. Not that it's great at all but my bench always seems to do best when I have a lot of that stuff in my blocks.

[Frog]

I like the layout as well. It does seem like overall stress from this program is on the low side (based on some back of the enveloppe INOL calculations), but honestly I would probably just start running it as written at first, and make tweaks based on how you feel as you’re moving along.

Generally speaking, I like to try to change as few variables as possible at a time when changing up my workouts in an attempt to figure out the cause-effect relationships. Since you’ve been benching 3-4x per week, maybe it could make sense to run this program but on a 3-day schedule instead (H-L-H/L-H-L)? This could allow you to see whether you’re getting any benefit from the H/L structure compared to the Hepburn-inspired stuff you’ve been running.

[Wilhelm]

I like the layout as well. It does seem like overall stress from this program is on the low side (based on some back of the enveloppe INOL calculations), but honestly I would probably just start running it as written at first, and make tweaks based on how you feel as you’re moving along.

Generally speaking, I like to try to change as few variables as possible at a time when changing up my workouts in an attempt to figure out the cause-effect relationships. Since you’ve been benching 3-4x per week, maybe it could make sense to run this program but on a 3-day schedule instead (H-L-H/L-H-L)? This could allow you to see whether you’re getting any benefit from the H/L structure compared to the Hepburn-inspired stuff you’ve been running.

That 3 day idea is great.
I was a bit concerned about the 4 complete non benching days between weeks.
I'm going to look over the excel sheet to see what that means week by week over that shorter span.

Thank you. : )

**Ok, yeah.
If i use 235 paused as training max, and go to the 3 day approach, i don't hit a single heavier than what i've already been doing until end of week 5, and i end up with a 1lb paused PR at week 8.

That seems reasonable to try.

[lehman906]

I get the 2x8 weeks on the light day, but I’m curious about the 8x3 at an even lighter weight. Is it supposed to be a Westside-style speed day but with no mention of bands or chains? Haven’t most raw lifters moved away from that?

[Wilhelm]

I get the 2x8 weeks on the light day, but I’m curious about the 8x3 at an even lighter weight. Is it supposed to be a Westside-style speed day but with no mention of bands or chains? Haven’t most raw lifters moved away from that?

I was thinking i could do slow tempo, long pause for this, but i know myself, and there is no way in hell i'm doing 8 sets of that.

I think i'll try just staying on the bench, reset my shoulders, and go ultra short rests.
Just bang 'em out, do my pullups, and call it a day.

[Wilhelm]

Wow.
After nothing but singles and triples all year, paused 5s today were no joke.
It's a full 4 weeks until i have them again with +6lbs.

I haven't overshot my training max, but i don't think i've undershot either.

[JohnHelton]

I will be interest in seeing how this works out. It is definitely moving in the opposite direction of Hanley / Data Driven Strength.
However, people seem to respond to different forms of stimulus.

[Wilhelm]

I was expecting today's 230lb single to be easier.
It wasn't hard per se, but i think my heavy dips Saturday may have impeded me some.
Pause was not motionless on chest, and i expected it to pretty much fly.
Instead i had a very brief slowdown at sticking point.

SpoilerShow

Did dips with +55lbs for 5 sets of 4 Saturday, day before yesterday.
Up 10lbs from the week prior, and a 10lb weight PR for any amount of reps.
All the 4th reps were close to failure.

Schedule is H bench Mondays, L bench Thursdays, and dips Satrdays.

I think next week i'll move H bench to Tuesday to give more rest after heavy dips.
I've got 235 coming up as the single, and that's 5 more pounds than i've benched this year.

[KarlM]

@Wilhelm, yeah I watched that dip video, and that was an impressive grind on your last rep. I think weighted dips are great but maybe the right move is to keep them in the 8-12ish rep range and leave a few reps in the tank. Still though, nice dip PR!

And regarding your bench, the only thing I see is that it looks like you flare your elbows too early off your chest. I don’t think I’ve ever seen a view of your bench from any angle other than side on (probably constraints due to your home gym set up), but depending on your grip width you may want to try to tuck your elbows a bit more and keep them tucked as you drive off your chest.

[Wilhelm]

Thanks, @KarlM
I had actually planned to do triples with the dips at that weight, but i got adventurous.
Then carried it through all the sets because i was being stubborn.

Just more sets with triples after a weight bump might be better.
Then add reps to early sets, something like that.
But yeah, my experiment this time is to go heavy with them, and advance the weight moreso than go after high reps.

My top single descent today was not well controlled.
Too fast, and more crashed than lightly touched, so i ended up less tight than i can usually manage.
Well, i guess actually started out less tight, so ended up that way as well.
I do think some of that was because of under-recovery.
I also didn't reach up to the bar with my chest beyond my initial arch, which i do when i'm on top of things.

[Wilhelm]

As far as elbow tuck goes, that single is actually fairly decent for my form.
Elbows under the bar, and not shooting back drastically ahead of the bar on the press.
When i purposely tuck them more, i'm quite weak off the chest. (moreso then i already am lol)

Nuckols actually advocating "flare and press"
https://www.strongerbyscience.com/why-y ... -benching/
watching this i was surprised how much Jennifer Thompson's elbows flare on the press.
More than i try an allow mine to.
Lol, i may even have to experiment in allowing more flare.
For now i try and have bar and elbows move together as they go back.

I realise i can't say, "see, i do it this way and my bench is awesome." It isn't.
But i do know tucking more than i do leaves me weak off the chest.

[JohnHelton]

@Wilhelm, thanks for posting that article. I've read it before, but I needed the reminder.

[KarlM]

@Wilhelm, I echo @JohnHelton’s thanks. That was a good read. I’m definitely going to play around with that. Based on what Greg wrote, I believe he would tell me I’m over tucking.

I’m not a big bencher. Where are all the big benchers? What do you all think about this? Hopefully we aren’t all technique nihilists nowadays.

[lehman906]

I tried it this morning and liked it way more than I thought I would. Bar flew off my chest, but there is more of a slow down in the transition to the triceps. I think the key is to not flare too much. He has a YouTube video that explains it well.

[AllM1ght]

@Wilhelm, I echo @JohnHelton’s thanks. That was a good read. I’m definitely going to play around with that. Based on what Greg wrote, I believe he would tell me I’m over tucking.

I’m not a big bencher. Where are all the big benchers? What do you all think about this? Hopefully we aren’t all technique nihilists nowadays.

Definitely Not a big bencher, but for what it's worth I've had much better consistent results flaring intentionally to an extent on the eccentric and pretty much as soon as possible on the way up.
Used to try and tuck, wrecked my bicep and didn't get me anywhere really.

Caveat, do grip close to max legal. Might have an impact

[KarlM]

Caveat, do grip close to max legal. Might have an impact

Yeah, good point. I don’t take a very wide grip so I’ll keep that in mind when I try it.

[Wilhelm]

Somewhat on the topic of the program, i'm sticking with the +55 lbs for dips today, but doing more sets with triples instead of fours.
Haven't made up my mind about moving H bench from Mon to Tue. for more recovery time.
If i keep the dips farther from failure, maybe it won't matter.