steroids in sports

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zappey1
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Re: steroids in sports

#301

Post by zappey1 » Fri Sep 02, 2022 8:33 am

asdf wrote: Tue Aug 30, 2022 7:06 pm Not sports, but still seems relevant:

"When the Navy gathered Seaman Mullen’s belongings, they discovered syringes and performance enhancing drugs in his car. The captain in charge of BUD/S immediately ordered an investigation, and soon about 40 candidates had either tested positive or had admitted using steroids or other drugs in violation of Navy regulations."

"Sailors who enter the program bolstered by steroids and hormones can push harder, recover faster and probably beat out the sailors who are trying to become SEALs while clean, said one senior SEAL leader with multiple combat deployments to Iraq and Afghanistan. The inevitable effect, he said, is that a course designed to select the very best will end up selecting only the very best cheaters, and steadily fill the SEAL teams with war fighters who view rules as optional."

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/08/30/us/n ... death.html
I helped run the urinalysis program at 2 commands. When every a SEAL/ EOD /Navy Diver name would come up they were almost 100% of the time excused by the CO (commanding officer) of the base. They were too busy supposedly to come in for the random testing. I'm not saying they were ALL on juice but I saw many of them in the base gym and they were looking pretty Juicy.

At another command when I was training to try to get into BUDS I had many SEALs and other candidates drop subtle hints I needed to take "special supplements" if I hoped to get in and pass. I never did take any and never got in good enough shape to make the cut to get in :lol:

Now steroids are pretty rampant in the military in general. When the ship would pull into a country where steroids could be bought at pharmacies many sailors would get caught both from urinalysis and locker searches (again not SEALs as they were exempt from random searches).

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Re: steroids in sports

#302

Post by Hardartery » Fri Sep 02, 2022 10:30 am

zappey1 wrote: Fri Sep 02, 2022 8:33 am
asdf wrote: Tue Aug 30, 2022 7:06 pm Not sports, but still seems relevant:

"When the Navy gathered Seaman Mullen’s belongings, they discovered syringes and performance enhancing drugs in his car. The captain in charge of BUD/S immediately ordered an investigation, and soon about 40 candidates had either tested positive or had admitted using steroids or other drugs in violation of Navy regulations."

"Sailors who enter the program bolstered by steroids and hormones can push harder, recover faster and probably beat out the sailors who are trying to become SEALs while clean, said one senior SEAL leader with multiple combat deployments to Iraq and Afghanistan. The inevitable effect, he said, is that a course designed to select the very best will end up selecting only the very best cheaters, and steadily fill the SEAL teams with war fighters who view rules as optional."

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/08/30/us/n ... death.html
I helped run the urinalysis program at 2 commands. When every a SEAL/ EOD /Navy Diver name would come up they were almost 100% of the time excused by the CO (commanding officer) of the base. They were too busy supposedly to come in for the random testing. I'm not saying they were ALL on juice but I saw many of them in the base gym and they were looking pretty Juicy.

At another command when I was training to try to get into BUDS I had many SEALs and other candidates drop subtle hints I needed to take "special supplements" if I hoped to get in and pass. I never did take any and never got in good enough shape to make the cut to get in :lol:

Now steroids are pretty rampant in the military in general. When the ship would pull into a country where steroids could be bought at pharmacies many sailors would get caught both from urinalysis and locker searches (again not SEALs as they were exempt from random searches).
I don't see why the military would care. The amphetamines they hand out to pilots are way more dangerous in general than any steroids these guys are going to get into.

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Re: steroids in sports

#303

Post by zappey1 » Fri Sep 02, 2022 2:15 pm

They are illegal. If they were legal I would think they would have no issue

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Re: steroids in sports

#304

Post by asdf » Fri Sep 02, 2022 3:28 pm

Hardartery wrote: Fri Sep 02, 2022 10:30 am I don't see why the military would care. The amphetamines they hand out to pilots are way more dangerous in general than any steroids these guys are going to get into.
According to the article, at BUDS it wasn't just steroids. Human growth hormone, SARMS, Viagra for SIPE, etc.

"the chemicals some sailors are relying on can interfere with the function of the heart, liver and other critical organs that are already under incredible stress from the brutal training.

If enough people in a community are doping, he said, it spreads risk even to those who are clean, as the level of competition rises and more people are pushed to exhaustion and injury."

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Re: steroids in sports

#305

Post by Hardartery » Fri Sep 02, 2022 3:33 pm

zappey1 wrote: Fri Sep 02, 2022 2:15 pm They are illegal. If they were legal I would think they would have no issue
Sure, I get that, but so are amphetamines and they have historically been pretty free with those.... just seems like an odd place to draw a line when you're talking about preparing to kill people for a living.

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Re: steroids in sports

#306

Post by dw » Fri Sep 02, 2022 4:34 pm

asdf wrote: Fri Sep 02, 2022 3:28 pm
Hardartery wrote: Fri Sep 02, 2022 10:30 am I don't see why the military would care. The amphetamines they hand out to pilots are way more dangerous in general than any steroids these guys are going to get into.
According to the article, at BUDS it wasn't just steroids. Human growth hormone, SARMS, Viagra for SIPE, etc.

"the chemicals some sailors are relying on can interfere with the function of the heart, liver and other critical organs that are already under incredible stress from the brutal training.

If enough people in a community are doping, he said, it spreads risk even to those who are clean, as the level of competition rises and more people are pushed to exhaustion and injury."
This seems like a legitimate problem. Seems like they should just allow the military to authorize steroid use. I mean...it quite obviously has substantial military value.

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Re: steroids in sports

#307

Post by Hardartery » Sat Sep 03, 2022 6:51 am

dw wrote: Fri Sep 02, 2022 4:34 pm
asdf wrote: Fri Sep 02, 2022 3:28 pm
Hardartery wrote: Fri Sep 02, 2022 10:30 am I don't see why the military would care. The amphetamines they hand out to pilots are way more dangerous in general than any steroids these guys are going to get into.
According to the article, at BUDS it wasn't just steroids. Human growth hormone, SARMS, Viagra for SIPE, etc.

"the chemicals some sailors are relying on can interfere with the function of the heart, liver and other critical organs that are already under incredible stress from the brutal training.

If enough people in a community are doping, he said, it spreads risk even to those who are clean, as the level of competition rises and more people are pushed to exhaustion and injury."
This seems like a legitimate problem. Seems like they should just allow the military to authorize steroid use. I mean...it quite obviously has substantial military value.
I'll be direct here, it does not seem like a legit problem. You want the level of copetition high, it is a place where people are pushing that limit with or without drugs. Growth is going to aid recovery, which is a net health positive for these guys given the relatively short term nature and given that no military guy is going to have the funds to pay for enough Growth Hormone to be dangerous. It's expensive, wherever they get it. IFBB guys are laying out close to $20k for a cycle of it to do a contest prep, no sailor can afford to pay for that much of it and it has to be refigerated at all times which would be another complication for them. The only thing I can see being a problem would be if they got on Tren, and they wouldn't because it crushes cardio endurance and that is a major problem for doing what those guys do. none of these things are as negative as alcohol or cigarettes, and they have unfettered access to both of those items.

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Re: steroids in sports

#308

Post by dw » Sat Sep 03, 2022 9:18 am

Hardartery wrote: Sat Sep 03, 2022 6:51 am
dw wrote: Fri Sep 02, 2022 4:34 pm
asdf wrote: Fri Sep 02, 2022 3:28 pm
Hardartery wrote: Fri Sep 02, 2022 10:30 am I don't see why the military would care. The amphetamines they hand out to pilots are way more dangerous in general than any steroids these guys are going to get into.
According to the article, at BUDS it wasn't just steroids. Human growth hormone, SARMS, Viagra for SIPE, etc.

"the chemicals some sailors are relying on can interfere with the function of the heart, liver and other critical organs that are already under incredible stress from the brutal training.

If enough people in a community are doping, he said, it spreads risk even to those who are clean, as the level of competition rises and more people are pushed to exhaustion and injury."
This seems like a legitimate problem. Seems like they should just allow the military to authorize steroid use. I mean...it quite obviously has substantial military value.
I'll be direct here, it does not seem like a legit problem. You want the level of copetition high, it is a place where people are pushing that limit with or without drugs. Growth is going to aid recovery, which is a net health positive for these guys given the relatively short term nature and given that no military guy is going to have the funds to pay for enough Growth Hormone to be dangerous. It's expensive, wherever they get it. IFBB guys are laying out close to $20k for a cycle of it to do a contest prep, no sailor can afford to pay for that much of it and it has to be refigerated at all times which would be another complication for them. The only thing I can see being a problem would be if they got on Tren, and they wouldn't because it crushes cardio endurance and that is a major problem for doing what those guys do. none of these things are as negative as alcohol or cigarettes, and they have unfettered access to both of those items.
The problem I was referring to was putting naturals in an impossible competition. The solution would be just allowing or prescribing them as needed.

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Re: steroids in sports

#309

Post by Hardartery » Sat Sep 03, 2022 10:37 am

dw wrote: Sat Sep 03, 2022 9:18 am
Hardartery wrote: Sat Sep 03, 2022 6:51 am
dw wrote: Fri Sep 02, 2022 4:34 pm
asdf wrote: Fri Sep 02, 2022 3:28 pm
Hardartery wrote: Fri Sep 02, 2022 10:30 am I don't see why the military would care. The amphetamines they hand out to pilots are way more dangerous in general than any steroids these guys are going to get into.
According to the article, at BUDS it wasn't just steroids. Human growth hormone, SARMS, Viagra for SIPE, etc.

"the chemicals some sailors are relying on can interfere with the function of the heart, liver and other critical organs that are already under incredible stress from the brutal training.

If enough people in a community are doping, he said, it spreads risk even to those who are clean, as the level of competition rises and more people are pushed to exhaustion and injury."
This seems like a legitimate problem. Seems like they should just allow the military to authorize steroid use. I mean...it quite obviously has substantial military value.
I'll be direct here, it does not seem like a legit problem. You want the level of copetition high, it is a place where people are pushing that limit with or without drugs. Growth is going to aid recovery, which is a net health positive for these guys given the relatively short term nature and given that no military guy is going to have the funds to pay for enough Growth Hormone to be dangerous. It's expensive, wherever they get it. IFBB guys are laying out close to $20k for a cycle of it to do a contest prep, no sailor can afford to pay for that much of it and it has to be refigerated at all times which would be another complication for them. The only thing I can see being a problem would be if they got on Tren, and they wouldn't because it crushes cardio endurance and that is a major problem for doing what those guys do. none of these things are as negative as alcohol or cigarettes, and they have unfettered access to both of those items.
The problem I was referring to was putting naturals in an impossible competition. The solution would be just allowing or prescribing them as needed.
Sorry, I misunderstood you. I agree absolutely.

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Re: steroids in sports

#310

Post by GlasgowJock » Sat Sep 03, 2022 11:41 am

houzi wrote: Thu Sep 01, 2022 11:18 pm For what its worth, I was in the british military many moons ago and every now and then blokes would get popped for steroids and then get the boot. I think one guy was caught taking then also found to be dealing. 7 days from positive drug test to being being a civilian. However, it was somewhat of an open secret of who was taking PEDs. Higher ranks would get wind of a camp-wide drug test incoming for the following day, and then square away any blokes in their department to be off camp for the entire day. Random driving detail to pick up a random vehicle part at another garrison, that sort of thing... These drug tests would appear every 6 months or so, but were somewhat optional the higher your rank was.
Interesting.

The only unit I can recall in recent history getting popped for PEDs was 7 RHA due to a tip off. Usually infantry battalions would get popped for coke (my unit had 20 guys thrown out for the Columbian marching powder a few years back).

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Re: steroids in sports

#311

Post by houzi » Sat Sep 03, 2022 7:28 pm

GlasgowJock wrote: Sat Sep 03, 2022 11:41 am
houzi wrote: Thu Sep 01, 2022 11:18 pm For what its worth, I was in the british military many moons ago and every now and then blokes would get popped for steroids and then get the boot. I think one guy was caught taking then also found to be dealing. 7 days from positive drug test to being being a civilian. However, it was somewhat of an open secret of who was taking PEDs. Higher ranks would get wind of a camp-wide drug test incoming for the following day, and then square away any blokes in their department to be off camp for the entire day. Random driving detail to pick up a random vehicle part at another garrison, that sort of thing... These drug tests would appear every 6 months or so, but were somewhat optional the higher your rank was.
Interesting.

The only unit I can recall in recent history getting popped for PEDs was 7 RHA due to a tip off. Usually infantry battalions would get popped for coke (my unit had 20 guys thrown out for the Columbian marching powder a few years back).
7RHA may or may not have been the unit I was talking about :lol:
Speaking of columbian marching powder... in another unit I know that 2 blokes got popped for usage following a drug test. OC called them in and questioned them. Didnt get booted, just got some crappy driving details and weekend stags, in exchange for saying sorry! (though it likely affected any possibilty of promotion, but lets be honest they werent likely to get promoted.)

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Re: steroids in sports

#312

Post by zappey1 » Sat Sep 03, 2022 7:40 pm

Hardartery wrote: Sat Sep 03, 2022 6:51 am
dw wrote: Fri Sep 02, 2022 4:34 pm
asdf wrote: Fri Sep 02, 2022 3:28 pm
Hardartery wrote: Fri Sep 02, 2022 10:30 am I don't see why the military would care. The amphetamines they hand out to pilots are way more dangerous in general than any steroids these guys are going to get into.
According to the article, at BUDS it wasn't just steroids. Human growth hormone, SARMS, Viagra for SIPE, etc.

"the chemicals some sailors are relying on can interfere with the function of the heart, liver and other critical organs that are already under incredible stress from the brutal training.

If enough people in a community are doping, he said, it spreads risk even to those who are clean, as the level of competition rises and more people are pushed to exhaustion and injury."
This seems like a legitimate problem. Seems like they should just allow the military to authorize steroid use. I mean...it quite obviously has substantial military value.
I'll be direct here, it does not seem like a legit problem. You want the level of copetition high, it is a place where people are pushing that limit with or without drugs. Growth is going to aid recovery, which is a net health positive for these guys given the relatively short term nature and given that no military guy is going to have the funds to pay for enough Growth Hormone to be dangerous. It's expensive, wherever they get it. IFBB guys are laying out close to $20k for a cycle of it to do a contest prep, no sailor can afford to pay for that much of it and it has to be refigerated at all times which would be another complication for them. The only thing I can see being a problem would be if they got on Tren, and they wouldn't because it crushes cardio endurance and that is a major problem for doing what those guys do. none of these things are as negative as alcohol or cigarettes, and they have unfettered access to both of those items.
As I said in my story when I was in at least 2 COs legit just looked the other way on ANY drugs the special warfare community was doing. They know that is hard work

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Re: steroids in sports

#313

Post by Hardartery » Sat Sep 03, 2022 7:51 pm

zappey1 wrote: Sat Sep 03, 2022 7:40 pm
Hardartery wrote: Sat Sep 03, 2022 6:51 am
dw wrote: Fri Sep 02, 2022 4:34 pm
asdf wrote: Fri Sep 02, 2022 3:28 pm
Hardartery wrote: Fri Sep 02, 2022 10:30 am I don't see why the military would care. The amphetamines they hand out to pilots are way more dangerous in general than any steroids these guys are going to get into.
According to the article, at BUDS it wasn't just steroids. Human growth hormone, SARMS, Viagra for SIPE, etc.

"the chemicals some sailors are relying on can interfere with the function of the heart, liver and other critical organs that are already under incredible stress from the brutal training.

If enough people in a community are doping, he said, it spreads risk even to those who are clean, as the level of competition rises and more people are pushed to exhaustion and injury."
This seems like a legitimate problem. Seems like they should just allow the military to authorize steroid use. I mean...it quite obviously has substantial military value.
I'll be direct here, it does not seem like a legit problem. You want the level of copetition high, it is a place where people are pushing that limit with or without drugs. Growth is going to aid recovery, which is a net health positive for these guys given the relatively short term nature and given that no military guy is going to have the funds to pay for enough Growth Hormone to be dangerous. It's expensive, wherever they get it. IFBB guys are laying out close to $20k for a cycle of it to do a contest prep, no sailor can afford to pay for that much of it and it has to be refigerated at all times which would be another complication for them. The only thing I can see being a problem would be if they got on Tren, and they wouldn't because it crushes cardio endurance and that is a major problem for doing what those guys do. none of these things are as negative as alcohol or cigarettes, and they have unfettered access to both of those items.
As I said in my story when I was in at least 2 COs legit just looked the other way on ANY drugs the special warfare community was doing. They know that is hard work
I think that that is probably the correct way to handle it, honestly. They aren't hurting anyone and will end up in better nick from it even after if they go back to being natty, they would carry some of the ill-gotten gains with them. I never understood the hand wringing about these things, as if it's some unforgivable sin. They're training to risk their lives, any edge they can eke out is fine by me.

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Re: steroids in sports

#314

Post by zappey1 » Sun Sep 04, 2022 8:29 am

Hardartery wrote: Sat Sep 03, 2022 7:51 pm
zappey1 wrote: Sat Sep 03, 2022 7:40 pm
Hardartery wrote: Sat Sep 03, 2022 6:51 am
dw wrote: Fri Sep 02, 2022 4:34 pm
asdf wrote: Fri Sep 02, 2022 3:28 pm
Hardartery wrote: Fri Sep 02, 2022 10:30 am I don't see why the military would care. The amphetamines they hand out to pilots are way more dangerous in general than any steroids these guys are going to get into.
According to the article, at BUDS it wasn't just steroids. Human growth hormone, SARMS, Viagra for SIPE, etc.

"the chemicals some sailors are relying on can interfere with the function of the heart, liver and other critical organs that are already under incredible stress from the brutal training.

If enough people in a community are doping, he said, it spreads risk even to those who are clean, as the level of competition rises and more people are pushed to exhaustion and injury."
This seems like a legitimate problem. Seems like they should just allow the military to authorize steroid use. I mean...it quite obviously has substantial military value.
I'll be direct here, it does not seem like a legit problem. You want the level of copetition high, it is a place where people are pushing that limit with or without drugs. Growth is going to aid recovery, which is a net health positive for these guys given the relatively short term nature and given that no military guy is going to have the funds to pay for enough Growth Hormone to be dangerous. It's expensive, wherever they get it. IFBB guys are laying out close to $20k for a cycle of it to do a contest prep, no sailor can afford to pay for that much of it and it has to be refigerated at all times which would be another complication for them. The only thing I can see being a problem would be if they got on Tren, and they wouldn't because it crushes cardio endurance and that is a major problem for doing what those guys do. none of these things are as negative as alcohol or cigarettes, and they have unfettered access to both of those items.
As I said in my story when I was in at least 2 COs legit just looked the other way on ANY drugs the special warfare community was doing. They know that is hard work
I think that that is probably the correct way to handle it, honestly. They aren't hurting anyone and will end up in better nick from it even after if they go back to being natty, they would carry some of the ill-gotten gains with them. I never understood the hand wringing about these things, as if it's some unforgivable sin. They're training to risk their lives, any edge they can eke out is fine by me.
The article made it seem like they were cracking down on it. I wonder if they actually are or just saying that for the PR. There are SEAL admirals that used to be on teams and go on missions. So they probably know how it is. I don't see them kicking out their best guys because they are on steroids.

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Re: steroids in sports

#315

Post by OrderInChaos » Sun Sep 04, 2022 10:06 am

zappey1 wrote: Sun Sep 04, 2022 8:29 am
Hardartery wrote: Sat Sep 03, 2022 7:51 pm
zappey1 wrote: Sat Sep 03, 2022 7:40 pm
Hardartery wrote: Sat Sep 03, 2022 6:51 am
dw wrote: Fri Sep 02, 2022 4:34 pm
asdf wrote: Fri Sep 02, 2022 3:28 pm
Hardartery wrote: Fri Sep 02, 2022 10:30 am I don't see why the military would care. The amphetamines they hand out to pilots are way more dangerous in general than any steroids these guys are going to get into.
According to the article, at BUDS it wasn't just steroids. Human growth hormone, SARMS, Viagra for SIPE, etc.

"the chemicals some sailors are relying on can interfere with the function of the heart, liver and other critical organs that are already under incredible stress from the brutal training.

If enough people in a community are doping, he said, it spreads risk even to those who are clean, as the level of competition rises and more people are pushed to exhaustion and injury."
This seems like a legitimate problem. Seems like they should just allow the military to authorize steroid use. I mean...it quite obviously has substantial military value.
I'll be direct here, it does not seem like a legit problem. You want the level of copetition high, it is a place where people are pushing that limit with or without drugs. Growth is going to aid recovery, which is a net health positive for these guys given the relatively short term nature and given that no military guy is going to have the funds to pay for enough Growth Hormone to be dangerous. It's expensive, wherever they get it. IFBB guys are laying out close to $20k for a cycle of it to do a contest prep, no sailor can afford to pay for that much of it and it has to be refigerated at all times which would be another complication for them. The only thing I can see being a problem would be if they got on Tren, and they wouldn't because it crushes cardio endurance and that is a major problem for doing what those guys do. none of these things are as negative as alcohol or cigarettes, and they have unfettered access to both of those items.
As I said in my story when I was in at least 2 COs legit just looked the other way on ANY drugs the special warfare community was doing. They know that is hard work
I think that that is probably the correct way to handle it, honestly. They aren't hurting anyone and will end up in better nick from it even after if they go back to being natty, they would carry some of the ill-gotten gains with them. I never understood the hand wringing about these things, as if it's some unforgivable sin. They're training to risk their lives, any edge they can eke out is fine by me.
The article made it seem like they were cracking down on it. I wonder if they actually are or just saying that for the PR. There are SEAL admirals that used to be on teams and go on missions. So they probably know how it is. I don't see them kicking out their best guys because they are on steroids.
The difference with amphetamines for pilots in the past and simpler go pills now (modafinil etc) compared to anabolic supplements is that the scheduled substance is declared not illegal because it’s prescribed; same with the post doughy recovery sleeping pills. After a rigorous deployment all the flight personnel who were prescribed such have follow on care, sleep clinics, etc back in the US to ensure they’ve not become dependent (which is why the nootropics are more common than straight up speed)

It’d probably be smart if they could be more open about it and implement programs like that for combat arms troops so that PCT and actual medical personnel are involved, not just a Corpsman and dudes with syringes at the cage.

No need for substances like that in training, hell for a while they were booting anyone who used creatine at Coronado (potential for dehydration - too many recruits dying of dehydration and heat injury - new rule from the Adm). It’s a beat down and supposed to suck. Implementing anything like that should be looking at the long term effects and longevity of the personnel, and drive operational concerns. Not training.

I also think the opportunity to be one of Uncle Sam’s few legal users of anabolic regimes would boost their retention and recruiting numbers and possibly get the longer term dudes to STFU about vaccines and stay in 😂

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Re: steroids in sports

#316

Post by OrderInChaos » Sun Sep 04, 2022 10:09 am

zappey1 wrote: Fri Sep 02, 2022 8:33 am
asdf wrote: Tue Aug 30, 2022 7:06 pm Not sports, but still seems relevant:

"When the Navy gathered Seaman Mullen’s belongings, they discovered syringes and performance enhancing drugs in his car. The captain in charge of BUD/S immediately ordered an investigation, and soon about 40 candidates had either tested positive or had admitted using steroids or other drugs in violation of Navy regulations."

"Sailors who enter the program bolstered by steroids and hormones can push harder, recover faster and probably beat out the sailors who are trying to become SEALs while clean, said one senior SEAL leader with multiple combat deployments to Iraq and Afghanistan. The inevitable effect, he said, is that a course designed to select the very best will end up selecting only the very best cheaters, and steadily fill the SEAL teams with war fighters who view rules as optional."

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/08/30/us/n ... death.html
I helped run the urinalysis program at 2 commands. When every a SEAL/ EOD /Navy Diver name would come up they were almost 100% of the time excused by the CO (commanding officer) of the base. They were too busy supposedly to come in for the random testing. I'm not saying they were ALL on juice but I saw many of them in the base gym and they were looking pretty Juicy.

At another command when I was training to try to get into BUDS I had many SEALs and other candidates drop subtle hints I needed to take "special supplements" if I hoped to get in and pass. I never did take any and never got in good enough shape to make the cut to get in :lol:

Now steroids are pretty rampant in the military in general. When the ship would pull into a country where steroids could be bought at pharmacies many sailors would get caught both from urinalysis and locker searches (again not SEALs as they were exempt from random searches).
From one former UPL Coordinator PO to another -> you know anabolics of most varieties won’t pop on the UA anyway right? Maybe cutting agents etc but nothing that plays with hormones.

A lot of the special treatment started to subside after Team 7 borked it so badly in Iraq a few years ago and got sent home by the TSOC. Not a great mentality to bring to a combat theater 🤷‍♂️

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Re: steroids in sports

#317

Post by zappey1 » Sun Sep 04, 2022 11:29 am

OrderInChaos wrote: Sun Sep 04, 2022 10:09 am
zappey1 wrote: Fri Sep 02, 2022 8:33 am
asdf wrote: Tue Aug 30, 2022 7:06 pm Not sports, but still seems relevant:

"When the Navy gathered Seaman Mullen’s belongings, they discovered syringes and performance enhancing drugs in his car. The captain in charge of BUD/S immediately ordered an investigation, and soon about 40 candidates had either tested positive or had admitted using steroids or other drugs in violation of Navy regulations."

"Sailors who enter the program bolstered by steroids and hormones can push harder, recover faster and probably beat out the sailors who are trying to become SEALs while clean, said one senior SEAL leader with multiple combat deployments to Iraq and Afghanistan. The inevitable effect, he said, is that a course designed to select the very best will end up selecting only the very best cheaters, and steadily fill the SEAL teams with war fighters who view rules as optional."

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/08/30/us/n ... death.html
I helped run the urinalysis program at 2 commands. When every a SEAL/ EOD /Navy Diver name would come up they were almost 100% of the time excused by the CO (commanding officer) of the base. They were too busy supposedly to come in for the random testing. I'm not saying they were ALL on juice but I saw many of them in the base gym and they were looking pretty Juicy.

At another command when I was training to try to get into BUDS I had many SEALs and other candidates drop subtle hints I needed to take "special supplements" if I hoped to get in and pass. I never did take any and never got in good enough shape to make the cut to get in :lol:

Now steroids are pretty rampant in the military in general. When the ship would pull into a country where steroids could be bought at pharmacies many sailors would get caught both from urinalysis and locker searches (again not SEALs as they were exempt from random searches).
From one former UPL Coordinator PO to another -> you know anabolics of most varieties won’t pop on the UA anyway right? Maybe cutting agents etc but nothing that plays with hormones.

A lot of the special treatment started to subside after Team 7 borked it so badly in Iraq a few years ago and got sent home by the TSOC. Not a great mentality to bring to a combat theater 🤷‍♂️
We still caught a few. If steroids were suspected the samples were tested extra to try to detect them (not sure how). More intensive testing of the sample? We had some guys claim they used legal test boosters but when numbers were WAY high there was only 1 answer. It was also amazing how many sailors popped from eating poppyseed muffins and being in a room where someone was smoking MJ. The same thing where if those stories were true the numbers would be very low and JAG could tell the difference pretty easily

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zappey1
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Re: steroids in sports

#318

Post by zappey1 » Sun Sep 04, 2022 11:32 am

zappey1 wrote: Sun Sep 04, 2022 11:29 am
OrderInChaos wrote: Sun Sep 04, 2022 10:09 am
zappey1 wrote: Fri Sep 02, 2022 8:33 am
asdf wrote: Tue Aug 30, 2022 7:06 pm Not sports, but still seems relevant:

"When the Navy gathered Seaman Mullen’s belongings, they discovered syringes and performance enhancing drugs in his car. The captain in charge of BUD/S immediately ordered an investigation, and soon about 40 candidates had either tested positive or had admitted using steroids or other drugs in violation of Navy regulations."

"Sailors who enter the program bolstered by steroids and hormones can push harder, recover faster and probably beat out the sailors who are trying to become SEALs while clean, said one senior SEAL leader with multiple combat deployments to Iraq and Afghanistan. The inevitable effect, he said, is that a course designed to select the very best will end up selecting only the very best cheaters, and steadily fill the SEAL teams with war fighters who view rules as optional."

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/08/30/us/n ... death.html
I helped run the urinalysis program at 2 commands. When every a SEAL/ EOD /Navy Diver name would come up they were almost 100% of the time excused by the CO (commanding officer) of the base. They were too busy supposedly to come in for the random testing. I'm not saying they were ALL on juice but I saw many of them in the base gym and they were looking pretty Juicy.

At another command when I was training to try to get into BUDS I had many SEALs and other candidates drop subtle hints I needed to take "special supplements" if I hoped to get in and pass. I never did take any and never got in good enough shape to make the cut to get in :lol:

Now steroids are pretty rampant in the military in general. When the ship would pull into a country where steroids could be bought at pharmacies many sailors would get caught both from urinalysis and locker searches (again not SEALs as they were exempt from random searches).
From one former UPL Coordinator PO to another -> you know anabolics of most varieties won’t pop on the UA anyway right? Maybe cutting agents etc but nothing that plays with hormones.

A lot of the special treatment started to subside after Team 7 borked it so badly in Iraq a few years ago and got sent home by the TSOC. Not a great mentality to bring to a combat theater 🤷‍♂️
We still caught a few. If steroids were suspected the samples were tested extra to try to detect them (not sure how). More intensive testing of the sample? We had some guys claim they used legal test boosters but when numbers were WAY high there was only 1 answer. It was also amazing how many sailors popped from eating poppyseed muffins and being in a room where someone was smoking MJ. The same thing where if those stories were true the numbers would be very low and JAG could tell the difference pretty easily
And let us not forget the old "I poped for coke from taking Tylenol 3's" :roll:

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Hardartery
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Re: steroids in sports

#319

Post by Hardartery » Sun Sep 04, 2022 1:28 pm

OrderInChaos wrote: Sun Sep 04, 2022 10:06 am
zappey1 wrote: Sun Sep 04, 2022 8:29 am
Hardartery wrote: Sat Sep 03, 2022 7:51 pm
zappey1 wrote: Sat Sep 03, 2022 7:40 pm
Hardartery wrote: Sat Sep 03, 2022 6:51 am
dw wrote: Fri Sep 02, 2022 4:34 pm
asdf wrote: Fri Sep 02, 2022 3:28 pm
Hardartery wrote: Fri Sep 02, 2022 10:30 am I don't see why the military would care. The amphetamines they hand out to pilots are way more dangerous in general than any steroids these guys are going to get into.
According to the article, at BUDS it wasn't just steroids. Human growth hormone, SARMS, Viagra for SIPE, etc.

"the chemicals some sailors are relying on can interfere with the function of the heart, liver and other critical organs that are already under incredible stress from the brutal training.

If enough people in a community are doping, he said, it spreads risk even to those who are clean, as the level of competition rises and more people are pushed to exhaustion and injury."
This seems like a legitimate problem. Seems like they should just allow the military to authorize steroid use. I mean...it quite obviously has substantial military value.
I'll be direct here, it does not seem like a legit problem. You want the level of copetition high, it is a place where people are pushing that limit with or without drugs. Growth is going to aid recovery, which is a net health positive for these guys given the relatively short term nature and given that no military guy is going to have the funds to pay for enough Growth Hormone to be dangerous. It's expensive, wherever they get it. IFBB guys are laying out close to $20k for a cycle of it to do a contest prep, no sailor can afford to pay for that much of it and it has to be refigerated at all times which would be another complication for them. The only thing I can see being a problem would be if they got on Tren, and they wouldn't because it crushes cardio endurance and that is a major problem for doing what those guys do. none of these things are as negative as alcohol or cigarettes, and they have unfettered access to both of those items.
As I said in my story when I was in at least 2 COs legit just looked the other way on ANY drugs the special warfare community was doing. They know that is hard work
I think that that is probably the correct way to handle it, honestly. They aren't hurting anyone and will end up in better nick from it even after if they go back to being natty, they would carry some of the ill-gotten gains with them. I never understood the hand wringing about these things, as if it's some unforgivable sin. They're training to risk their lives, any edge they can eke out is fine by me.
The article made it seem like they were cracking down on it. I wonder if they actually are or just saying that for the PR. There are SEAL admirals that used to be on teams and go on missions. So they probably know how it is. I don't see them kicking out their best guys because they are on steroids.
The difference with amphetamines for pilots in the past and simpler go pills now (modafinil etc) compared to anabolic supplements is that the scheduled substance is declared not illegal because it’s prescribed; same with the post doughy recovery sleeping pills. After a rigorous deployment all the flight personnel who were prescribed such have follow on care, sleep clinics, etc back in the US to ensure they’ve not become dependent (which is why the nootropics are more common than straight up speed)

It’d probably be smart if they could be more open about it and implement programs like that for combat arms troops so that PCT and actual medical personnel are involved, not just a Corpsman and dudes with syringes at the cage.

No need for substances like that in training, hell for a while they were booting anyone who used creatine at Coronado (potential for dehydration - too many recruits dying of dehydration and heat injury - new rule from the Adm). It’s a beat down and supposed to suck. Implementing anything like that should be looking at the long term effects and longevity of the personnel, and drive operational concerns. Not training.

I also think the opportunity to be one of Uncle Sam’s few legal users of anabolic regimes would boost their retention and recruiting numbers and possibly get the longer term dudes to STFU about vaccines and stay in 😂
I am not personally familiar with doing the training, and at my age am in no danger of being so. I am under the impression that Basic Training for beating them down, not the training for special teams. Anyway, amphetamines are illegal without a scrip pretty much everywhere, or just plain not available. Testosterone is OTC in most of the world. There are no particular dangers of addiction, and most guys, especially younger guys, can actually just stop and be totally fine in a few months at most. I doubt the PEDs make a huge difference in military training, but they would probably result in fewer injuries and less lost time to injury overall given the lack of 1 RM stuff involved. Banning creatine was pure ignorance, truthfully, which is normal with newer and unfamiliar substances in these sorts of organizations. It would not suck less by using, but it would be better to have it open and keep an eye on the bloodwork. It is also pretty easy to get a perfectly legal scrip in the US at no great expense, if that is the defining line, and that can be done without real actual need TBH. There's no need for a lot of things, that doesn't mean they should not or do not get used. You could run into battle with Russian made tanks too, doesn't mean it's the best way to go about it.

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Hardartery
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Re: steroids in sports

#320

Post by Hardartery » Sun Sep 04, 2022 1:29 pm

zappey1 wrote: Sun Sep 04, 2022 11:32 am
zappey1 wrote: Sun Sep 04, 2022 11:29 am
OrderInChaos wrote: Sun Sep 04, 2022 10:09 am
zappey1 wrote: Fri Sep 02, 2022 8:33 am
asdf wrote: Tue Aug 30, 2022 7:06 pm Not sports, but still seems relevant:

"When the Navy gathered Seaman Mullen’s belongings, they discovered syringes and performance enhancing drugs in his car. The captain in charge of BUD/S immediately ordered an investigation, and soon about 40 candidates had either tested positive or had admitted using steroids or other drugs in violation of Navy regulations."

"Sailors who enter the program bolstered by steroids and hormones can push harder, recover faster and probably beat out the sailors who are trying to become SEALs while clean, said one senior SEAL leader with multiple combat deployments to Iraq and Afghanistan. The inevitable effect, he said, is that a course designed to select the very best will end up selecting only the very best cheaters, and steadily fill the SEAL teams with war fighters who view rules as optional."

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/08/30/us/n ... death.html
I helped run the urinalysis program at 2 commands. When every a SEAL/ EOD /Navy Diver name would come up they were almost 100% of the time excused by the CO (commanding officer) of the base. They were too busy supposedly to come in for the random testing. I'm not saying they were ALL on juice but I saw many of them in the base gym and they were looking pretty Juicy.

At another command when I was training to try to get into BUDS I had many SEALs and other candidates drop subtle hints I needed to take "special supplements" if I hoped to get in and pass. I never did take any and never got in good enough shape to make the cut to get in :lol:

Now steroids are pretty rampant in the military in general. When the ship would pull into a country where steroids could be bought at pharmacies many sailors would get caught both from urinalysis and locker searches (again not SEALs as they were exempt from random searches).
From one former UPL Coordinator PO to another -> you know anabolics of most varieties won’t pop on the UA anyway right? Maybe cutting agents etc but nothing that plays with hormones.

A lot of the special treatment started to subside after Team 7 borked it so badly in Iraq a few years ago and got sent home by the TSOC. Not a great mentality to bring to a combat theater 🤷‍♂️
We still caught a few. If steroids were suspected the samples were tested extra to try to detect them (not sure how). More intensive testing of the sample? We had some guys claim they used legal test boosters but when numbers were WAY high there was only 1 answer. It was also amazing how many sailors popped from eating poppyseed muffins and being in a room where someone was smoking MJ. The same thing where if those stories were true the numbers would be very low and JAG could tell the difference pretty easily
And let us not forget the old "I poped for coke from taking Tylenol 3's" :roll:
LOL.

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