Stupid Questions Thread - Nutrition

[Tommy1507]

I often find myself thinking about nutrition-related topics that don't need to have a seperate topic.

Maybe others have too and we could ask them here.

My question would be
What is your take on fish oil? If you don't eat large amounts of fatty fish. Lyle Mcdonald recommends high doses of combined EPA/DHA around 2-3 gram to show benefits. Which would also be at least 10-20$ per month. Other experts also recommend it. Barbell Medicine says that nobody need to supplement it at all.

[Wilhelm]

I have a limited item diet, so i was considering fish oil.

But instead i've been buying this really great brand of kippers (herring)
$2.99 a can, but better per unit price than the King Oscar brand since they are 6.7 oz vs 4.5.
And they are way WAY higher quality.
I Eat them right from the can. Really nice fillets.

$12 to $18 a month since i buy two or 3 cans for myself every two weeks when i go shopping.

I already live on whey, peanut butter, spinach and some other things, so i'd rather have something good to eat to get some omega 3s.
Big shot of protein too.
I've got enough capsules and powders going already.

Says Gulf of Maine here, but they currently source from Latvia for what i get at the store.

[Tommy1507]

Here in germany some omega3-rish fishes are also really cheap. Like the sardinas, herring, mackerel and some others. I am always sceptic if they really contain so much omega3 and i think it's dependant on what they eat.
I wonder if BBM assumes that you eat a big amount of fish, so that you don't need supplement omega3.

[mgil]

Here in germany some omega3-rish fishes are also really cheap. Like the sardinas, herring, mackerel and some others. I am always sceptic if they really contain so much omega3 and i think it's dependant on what they eat.
I wonder if BBM assumes that you eat a big amount of fish, so that you don't need supplement omega3.

Sardines are pretty solid for Omega-3s. Plus, I can usually find them flavored some way with minimal caloric impact but a nice bonus regarding variety.

There likely is some variance regarding the dosage per can, but if you’re eating them fairly regularly, it should average out.

Currently I use some higher quality capsules daily to maintain a baseline of healthy fats. It’s more expensive but also more convenient. With fish oil or krill oil capsules, make sure you’re sourcing better quality stuff. There is some junk out there. Price alone doesn’t imply quality.

[mgil]

@Wilhelm, the notion of “tasting Bar Harbor” is somewhat unsettling... :-p

[mbasic]

Wilhelm, the notion of “tasting Bar Harbor” is somewhat unsettling... :-p

lolz at whoever is doing their marketing / ads .

[Tommy1507]

Sardines are pretty solid for Omega-3s. Plus, I can usually find them flavored some way with minimal caloric impact but a nice bonus regarding variety.

Do they also come in cheap omega6 rich sunflower oil? I always remove the sunflower oil, so i can't directly eat them out of the can. It seems counterproductive to eat the sunflower oil as the omega3/6 ratio seems to matter.

[mgil]

Sardines are pretty solid for Omega-3s. Plus, I can usually find them flavored some way with minimal caloric impact but a nice bonus regarding variety.

Do they also come in cheap omega6 rich sunflower oil? I always remove the sunflower oil, so i can't directly eat them out of the can. It seems counterproductive to eat the sunflower oil as the omega3/6 ratio seems to matter.

I usually get mine in olive oil, iirc.

[Wilhelm]

@ Wilhelm, the notion of “tasting Bar Harbor” is somewhat unsettling... :-p

lol
Somone must have taken note of that.
Label now reads " something something, clear cold waters of the north sea"

[Tommy1507]

I would have another one:
If protein timing is not important why is it currently recommended to consume it every 3-5 hours? If i am correct, it should stimulate MPS. But what happens with the protein i consume for example 2 hours after my last feeding. Will it only be used as "fuel"? Then it would be useless to consume it and one could eat cheaper carbs.
Am i right if i think i shouldn't worry about this?

[Hardartery]

Your body can only utilize a certain number of grams per sitting, it increases as you age (Surprisngly), so eating 60 grams of protein doesn't actually yield 60 grams of protein for you if you eat it all at once - as an example. So the protein gets spread out over the day so that it can actually be processed by the body and used. It does not have exactly the same prediliction for becoming fat as an overabundance of carbs does though.

[lheugh]

The thing about protein timing is that the studies are generally done in fasted conditions using whey protein which vastly increases digestion and absorption rates. This does not take into account the veritable conga line of food that goes through the system, all of which impact how fast or slow digestion occurs. A single lean steak of 26g was shown to lead to a sustained increase in MPS that lasted 6 hours. Throw in anything with a modicum of fibre or fat in it, and you've increased that conga line by a few hours for that one meal. You can drive yourself mad trying to then attempt to work out where one MPS curve begins and ends when your small intestine alters digestion rate in response to protein receptors in the gut. As an aside, your small intestine is a massive amino acid reservoir (both to sustain itself and to distribute). There is a limit to how FAST you can digest protein (which your small intestine regulates anyway), but it all ends up being used for other functions outside of muscle tissue, of which whole-body protein turnover is only like 25-30%.

[Tommy1507]

This does not take into account the veritable conga line of food that goes through the system, all of which impact how fast or slow digestion occurs. A single lean steak of 26g was shown to lead to a sustained increase in MPS that lasted 6 hours. Throw in anything with a modicum of fibre or fat in it, and you've increased that conga line by a few hours for that one meal.

But it all ends up being used for other functions outside of muscle tissue, of which whole-body protein turnover is only like 25-30%.

1) So in some circumstances it could be a good idea to add some fiber to a whey shake?

2) What are the others functions for that the protein is used? Could other macros serve that purpose too?

[mgil]

Fiber is almost always good to supplement.

[lheugh]

Absolutely agree with @mgil ! Generally, consuming somewhere in the realm of 10g - 14g per 1000kcal in your calorie budget seems to be sufficient for nutrient absorption and gut health.

As to the particulars of your first question, I can think of 3 examples. Firstly, as has been said, if it helps meet the quantity heuristic for health purposes. Secondly, if upon waking you know you're not going to be able to eat for a protracted amount of time and want to preemptively combat hunger pangs, consuming a shake with fibre will increase satiety as it (along with fat) take the longest to process. Thirdly (really a continuation of #2), before going to sleep (a literal fasting period) perhaps you want to simulate the lengthy absorption rate of the other protein fraction in milk, casein, without actually having to buy it (which tends to be more expensive than whey). This all assumes it fits your calorie budget for whatever your goal might be.

As to your second question, protein consumed outside of muscle tissue turnover is necessary for organ tissue turnover, antibody production, enzyme and kinase production, hormone production (insulin, growth hormone, IGF-1, etc.) and in the actual transport (and ion channels) of said hormones (and nutrients) throughout the system. 9 of the 20 amino acids in protein cannot be fabricated by the body and thus are essential in the diet.

[Wilhelm]

And some are conditionally essential, like glycine.
It can be synthesized endogenously, but only in a somewhat small amount.
Modern diets have become more limited in dietary intake of glycine with more lean meats predominating, people don't eat jello anymore, and organ meats are largely out of fashion in the mainstream.
Free range organ meats and free range bone broth are just too expensive for many, and i wouldn't advise eating liver from feed lot cows.

I get glycine powder (granules really) from bluksupplements, and use a little less than a tsp in each of 3 shakes per day.
It's a lot cheaper than gelatin or collagen, and is the limiting factor in endogenous collagen production.

[lheugh]

Glycine is an interesting one since its status isn't governed by illness or trauma (like tyrosine and glutamine for example). While a couple of endogenous pathways lead to roughly 3g of glycine, it seems an additional 12g from the diet is advisable to make up the deficit. While collagenous protein sources are the lowest hanging fruit so to speak, any dietary source of protein will have some proportion of it (a couple grams in cooked meat/seafood and a bit less in milk and eggs).

[Hardartery]

The thing about protein timing is that the studies are generally done in fasted conditions using whey protein which vastly increases digestion and absorption rates. This does not take into account the veritable conga line of food that goes through the system, all of which impact how fast or slow digestion occurs. A single lean steak of 26g was shown to lead to a sustained increase in MPS that lasted 6 hours. Throw in anything with a modicum of fibre or fat in it, and you've increased that conga line by a few hours for that one meal. You can drive yourself mad trying to then attempt to work out where one MPS curve begins and ends when your small intestine alters digestion rate in response to protein receptors in the gut. As an aside, your small intestine is a massive amino acid reservoir (both to sustain itself and to distribute). There is a limit to how FAST you can digest protein (which your small intestine regulates anyway), but it all ends up being used for other functions outside of muscle tissue, of which whole-body protein turnover is only like 25-30%.

I didn't say it was absolutely correct, just that that is why guys do it, lol. It holds some truth though. The real lesson is to eat real food over shakes and supplements - for the reasons that you noted. The actual protein makes a difference too. Everybody pounds whey, but they would probably be better off with a blend or a different type depending on what they have going on. There are times when casein or something else might be a better choice.

[Wilhelm]

Glycine is an interesting one since its status isn't governed by illness or trauma (like tyrosine and glutamine for example). While a couple of endogenous pathways lead to roughly 3g of glycine, it seems an additional 12g from the diet is advisable to make up the deficit. While collagenous protein sources are the lowest hanging fruit so to speak, any dietary source of protein will have some proportion of it (a couple grams in cooked meat/seafood and a bit less in milk and eggs).

It's hard to get to that 12 (or 14) extra grams via dietary intake with most common modern food options.
The quantity needed is more than normal portioning provides.

The "just eat lots of fruits and veg and you won't need to take a multivitamin" argument holds up even less well in this case.


And to be faaaaaaiiir... My diet is quite limited item wise.

[mettkeks]

The thing about protein timing is that the studies are generally done in fasted conditions using whey protein which vastly increases digestion and absorption rates. This does not take into account the veritable conga line of food that goes through the system, all of which impact how fast or slow digestion occurs. A single lean steak of 26g was shown to lead to a sustained increase in MPS that lasted 6 hours. Throw in anything with a modicum of fibre or fat in it, and you've increased that conga line by a few hours for that one meal. You can drive yourself mad trying to then attempt to work out where one MPS curve begins and ends when your small intestine alters digestion rate in response to protein receptors in the gut. As an aside, your small intestine is a massive amino acid reservoir (both to sustain itself and to distribute). There is a limit to how FAST you can digest protein (which your small intestine regulates anyway), but it all ends up being used for other functions outside of muscle tissue, of which whole-body protein turnover is only like 25-30%.

I didn't say it was absolutely correct, just that that is why guys do it, lol. It holds some truth though. The real lesson is to eat real food over shakes and supplements - for the reasons that you noted. The actual protein makes a difference too. Everybody pounds whey, but they would probably be better off with a blend or a different type depending on what they have going on. There are times when casein or something else might be a better choice.

A standalone whey shake will peak blood amino acid levels an hour after ingestion, while casein will hold a constant level for up to 8 hours. A sandwich with the whey shake will lead to the same effect. Given that whey is usually cheaper and has a better texture, you shouldn't be obsessing about which type of high quality milk protein you're ingesting.