Low Bar Form Check

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toph
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Low Bar Form Check

#1

Post by toph » Thu Feb 11, 2021 1:24 pm

Hi - I have been squatting high bar for a while but looking to switch to low bar just to change things up. Hoping to get a quick form check. It feels good to me and light (this is just 220)--only issue is I'll need to work on should flexibility to get the rack a bit more comfortable. Would appreciate any input. Thank you!


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Wilhelm
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Re: Low Bar Form Check

#2

Post by Wilhelm » Thu Feb 11, 2021 2:14 pm

I'm getting "An error occurred" when i try and play the vid.

You say the rack needs to be more comfortable.
Does the bar feel like it's resting on bone at any point?
Last edited by Wilhelm on Thu Feb 11, 2021 2:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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mgil
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Re: Low Bar Form Check

#3

Post by mgil » Thu Feb 11, 2021 2:14 pm

Motion looks pretty clean.

Wrist wraps might help you with your rack/grip.

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Wilhelm
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Re: Low Bar Form Check

#4

Post by Wilhelm » Thu Feb 11, 2021 2:20 pm

mgil wrote: Thu Feb 11, 2021 2:14 pm Motion looks pretty clean.

Wrist wraps might help you with your rack/grip.
Thumbs over is another valid option to explore.
Regardless of Rip espousing it.

It's worked for me for over 4 years.
No wrist or elbow issues.

Also popular with many elite lifters.

toph
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Re: Low Bar Form Check

#5

Post by toph » Thu Feb 11, 2021 2:25 pm

Wilhelm wrote: Thu Feb 11, 2021 2:14 pm I'm getting "An error occurred" when i try and play the vid.

You say the rack needs to be more comfortable.
Does the bar feel like it's resting on bone at any point?
It's comfortably under my shoulder blades and I don't feel like I'm hitting bone, but it takes a bit of stretching to get my arms in place even with a fairly wide grip. I think it will just be repetition and confidence that I'm racking in consistently in the same spot on my back over and over (this feels much easier when squatting high bar).
mgil wrote: Thu Feb 11, 2021 2:14 pm Motion looks pretty clean.

Wrist wraps might help you with your rack/grip.
I'm going to order some, actually. Pioneer ones look solid. Thanks.

KarlM
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Re: Low Bar Form Check

#6

Post by KarlM » Thu Feb 11, 2021 8:46 pm

Wilhelm wrote: Thu Feb 11, 2021 2:20 pm
mgil wrote: Thu Feb 11, 2021 2:14 pm Motion looks pretty clean.

Wrist wraps might help you with your rack/grip.
Thumbs over is another valid option to explore.
Regardless of Rip espousing it.

It's worked for me for over 4 years.
No wrist or elbow issues.

Also popular with many elite lifters.
Really?? How have you avoided the elbow aids? I very much like low bar and very much don’t like high bar (it hurts my traps) but low bar beats up my elbows. That’s the entire reason I bought and use the SSB. Thumbs over grip and in a couple weeks my elbows are fried. Thumbs around helps a lot, but I need wraps to stabilize the wrists.

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Wilhelm
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Re: Low Bar Form Check

#7

Post by Wilhelm » Thu Feb 11, 2021 8:55 pm

KarlM wrote: Thu Feb 11, 2021 8:46 pm
Wilhelm wrote: Thu Feb 11, 2021 2:20 pm
mgil wrote: Thu Feb 11, 2021 2:14 pm Motion looks pretty clean.

Wrist wraps might help you with your rack/grip.
Thumbs over is another valid option to explore.
Regardless of Rip espousing it.

It's worked for me for over 4 years.
No wrist or elbow issues.

Also popular with many elite lifters.
Really?? How have you avoided the elbow aids? I very much like low bar and very much don’t like high bar (it hurts my traps) but low bar beats up my elbows. That’s the entire reason I bought and use the SSB. Thumbs over grip and in a couple weeks my elbows are fried. Thumbs around helps a lot, but I need wraps to stabilize the wrists.
Yeah, from what i've heard (read) some people are suited more for one or the other of those grips.
And some poor souls trade elbow pain with one for wrist pain with the other.

My whole 4 years i've done strictly low bar thumbs over every single rep.
I guess i'm just built for it.
I've moved my grip in slowly over time, and now my thumbs go over the inner edge where the knurl meets the smooth.

As mentioned, lots of really good powerlifters use that grip.
*Insert vid of Mike T.*

But yeah, not for everyone, just an option to possibly explore.
Rip didn't invent that shit. :D

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DCR
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Re: Low Bar Form Check

#8

Post by DCR » Fri Feb 12, 2021 7:39 am

KarlM wrote: Thu Feb 11, 2021 8:46 pm Really?? How have you avoided the elbow aids? I very much like low bar and very much don’t like high bar (it hurts my traps) but low bar beats up my elbows. That’s the entire reason I bought and use the SSB. Thumbs over grip and in a couple weeks my elbows are fried. Thumbs around helps a lot, but I need wraps to stabilize the wrists.
I know I’m annoying as shit posting this video over and over but it really is super helpful - totally cured my LBBS elbow pain and I don’t feel any less stable.

http://www.lift-run-bang.com/2012/06/fi ... d-and.html

Caveats as always:

1. My squat is trash and who knows if this works when one is much stronger than me, as you are. (That said, Carter claims to squat over 600 and probably does/did. Guy’s a total bro and has been at it as his job for a long time.)

2. I have no idea why my man is panting so hard talking about this.

ETA: @toph, I love the bedroom set up. Had the same thing last year before returning to the gym. It was our spare, but my wife still was pissed.

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Hardartery
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Re: Low Bar Form Check

#9

Post by Hardartery » Fri Feb 12, 2021 12:39 pm

DCR wrote: Fri Feb 12, 2021 7:39 am
KarlM wrote: Thu Feb 11, 2021 8:46 pm Really?? How have you avoided the elbow aids? I very much like low bar and very much don’t like high bar (it hurts my traps) but low bar beats up my elbows. That’s the entire reason I bought and use the SSB. Thumbs over grip and in a couple weeks my elbows are fried. Thumbs around helps a lot, but I need wraps to stabilize the wrists.
I know I’m annoying as shit posting this video over and over but it really is super helpful - totally cured my LBBS elbow pain and I don’t feel any less stable.

http://www.lift-run-bang.com/2012/06/fi ... d-and.html

Caveats as always:

1. My squat is trash and who knows if this works when one is much stronger than me, as you are. (That said, Carter claims to squat over 600 and probably does/did. Guy’s a total bro and has been at it as his job for a long time.)

2. I have no idea why my man is panting so hard talking about this.

ETA: @toph, I love the bedroom set up. Had the same thing last year before returning to the gym. It was our spare, but my wife still was pissed.
Paul's shelf doesn't change with hand spacing for two reasons. 1. He doesn't have any rear delts to speak of. 2. The way he holds his arms as he moves them in and out is not an accurate representation of how it happens on a bar. His elbows didn't move. If you follow a plane, the upper arms would have to move not just the forearms. I'm nit-picking, but it is what it is. Also, the bar can roll. If you are moving serious weight with regular old gym equipment (Not fancy calibrated stuff) it is virtually guaranteed to roll when you get heavy. It starts trying at 400, and requires effort as the weight gets heavy. I'm not saying a thumbless grip won't help, but I am saying it didn't do anything for me. Moving my hands out does, and I have even squatted gripping the collars at times. The issue is weight related anyway. A stiff squat bar fixed it better than anything else, because it's bar whip that torques the elbow and the whip is less pronounced with lighter weight and on a stiffer bar. Switching to a thicker squat bar was magic.

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DCR
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Re: Low Bar Form Check

#10

Post by DCR » Fri Feb 12, 2021 2:04 pm

Hardartery wrote: Fri Feb 12, 2021 12:39 pm
DCR wrote: Fri Feb 12, 2021 7:39 am
KarlM wrote: Thu Feb 11, 2021 8:46 pm Really?? How have you avoided the elbow aids? I very much like low bar and very much don’t like high bar (it hurts my traps) but low bar beats up my elbows. That’s the entire reason I bought and use the SSB. Thumbs over grip and in a couple weeks my elbows are fried. Thumbs around helps a lot, but I need wraps to stabilize the wrists.
I know I’m annoying as shit posting this video over and over but it really is super helpful - totally cured my LBBS elbow pain and I don’t feel any less stable.

http://www.lift-run-bang.com/2012/06/fi ... d-and.html

Caveats as always:

1. My squat is trash and who knows if this works when one is much stronger than me, as you are. (That said, Carter claims to squat over 600 and probably does/did. Guy’s a total bro and has been at it as his job for a long time.)

2. I have no idea why my man is panting so hard talking about this.

ETA: @toph, I love the bedroom set up. Had the same thing last year before returning to the gym. It was our spare, but my wife still was pissed.
Paul's shelf doesn't change with hand spacing for two reasons. 1. He doesn't have any rear delts to speak of. 2. The way he holds his arms as he moves them in and out is not an accurate representation of how it happens on a bar. His elbows didn't move. If you follow a plane, the upper arms would have to move not just the forearms. I'm nit-picking, but it is what it is. Also, the bar can roll. If you are moving serious weight with regular old gym equipment (Not fancy calibrated stuff) it is virtually guaranteed to roll when you get heavy. It starts trying at 400, and requires effort as the weight gets heavy. I'm not saying a thumbless grip won't help, but I am saying it didn't do anything for me. Moving my hands out does, and I have even squatted gripping the collars at times. The issue is weight related anyway. A stiff squat bar fixed it better than anything else, because it's bar whip that torques the elbow and the whip is less pronounced with lighter weight and on a stiffer bar. Switching to a thicker squat bar was magic.
My success with this then, may be the result of two things. First, per my caveat in my initial post: my weak ass squat. Second, despite my weak ass squat and other deficiencies, I have a notably jacked upper back. Once I pull back my rhomboids, the bar is going absolutely fucking nowhere (at least with my weak ass weight on it). The point that I got from the video was just that idea: that I could squeeze my back and be cool, and not have to flex my arms/squeeze my hands at all. I keep my thumbs under the bar, but there's little to no hand pressure. You're right about his (lack of) upper arm movement in that one part being a shitty physical demonstration of what he means to say.

toph
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Re: Low Bar Form Check

#11

Post by toph » Fri Feb 12, 2021 2:23 pm

DCR wrote: Fri Feb 12, 2021 7:39 am ETA: @toph, I love the bedroom set up. Had the same thing last year before returning to the gym. It was our spare, but my wife still was pissed.
Covid got me to build my own gym and it's been life changing (even though I coopted our 2nd bedroom to lift, same as you). My wife was cool with it, I think she knows it keeps me sane.

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Wilhelm
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Re: Low Bar Form Check

#12

Post by Wilhelm » Fri Feb 12, 2021 3:13 pm

I still jam my arms in tight.
Pretty much a function of a narrow grip and low bar, but the key with either grip, is the hands basically hold the bar against the back, not hold the bar off the floor.

I'm not actively cranking my arms down any harder than the position already places them.
Once i push my back up into place, things are just tight on their own.
If i ever need to do the "pull the elbows under" maneuver/correction on the ascent, there is room for that in my system.

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5hout
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Re: Low Bar Form Check

#13

Post by 5hout » Mon Feb 15, 2021 9:48 am

I hesitate to guess at the future, because that's a fine squat. It looks to me like you are at above-average risk of developing a squat-morning if you you go heavier. This might be related to grip/rack confidence, or not. As you squat heavier if you feel/observe yourself losing a bit a of ass-depth, but still having the chest/bar go down far, the cues I find helpful are:

1: imagine a bearded giant screaming "BACK BACK BACK" at you once you get halfway down.

2: Focusing on taint opening/locking the back angle at the half way point.

Probably borrowing trouble for no reason, but might be helpful as you push it.

toph
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Re: Low Bar Form Check

#14

Post by toph » Mon Feb 15, 2021 12:36 pm

Thanks! I don’t feel that I’m losing back angle (even at heavier weights) but I will certainly keep that in mind if I feel I’m getting folded over as I progress.

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